Another mass shooting...

[RMK 3]

turtlespeed

I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

There is no perfect country.

The US does not have a monopoly on freedom; the globe has many free nations.

"Best" is subjective. Whereas you view the US as the best place to live; it doesn’t even make my top 10.

It’s not bad; you can do worse – but best and greatest?

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

Usually I would agree with you on many things RMK.... BUT.....You have not met Turtle on the boogie circuit have you... he is a very "special" little princess.




Note to Bill....

not a PA... just in case you are not fully awake yet

My back is good and healthy, come get some.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

******

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

TK is correct.

I'm always amused by the childish reply "If you don't like it then leave". I did just that. I have no interest in ever living in the US again, nor do I wish to visit often.

It's not difficult. If you see another country/company/person getting a better result; copy them or try something similar.

This "but we're different, we're special" falls on deaf ears for the rest of the industrialised world - you're not special princess.



Believe us when we don't disagree with your decision to leave and not come back.

Thing is, I believe and have pride in this country. I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

People that immigrate to this country hen try to change it to the European way of life should take a step back and consider what they are doing.

Those people that earned their citizenship, and those that have come and gone, and criticize this great nation, should maybe take a step back and remember the cost in the form of lives and families it took to create the country they enjoy the fruits of.

What seems to be over looked, if not taken completely for granted, is that a lot of Americans will lay down their lives, and have, to protect the freedom to allow the criticism so generously bandied about. Perhaps a few moments of introspection and attempts at understanding would do well to temper the "holier than thou" attitude a bit.

My guess is that not very many of these people coming in and earning their citizenship, or those crossing the border illegally, would lay their lives down to protect our rights.

As a PSA announcement.. I saw a news report on the NW Cable News Channel.. the shooters father was interviewed and is from the UK .One of the Portland stations was reporting the gunman in Roseburg was BORN in the UK . The guy lived with his mother in Oregon and his manifesto was talking about going to party with Satan.

[turtlespeed 212]

RMK

It’s not bad; you can do worse – but best and greatest?

Yes, ubiquitously the best, and undoubtedly the greatest.

In the words of Ron Weasley,
You really need to sort out your priorities.


L

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

turtlespeed

***


It’s not bad; you can do worse – but best and greatest?

Yes, ubiquitously the best, and undoubtedly the greatest.

In the words of Ron Weasley,
You really need to sort out your priorities.


L

See what I mean RMK...... he is quoting a fictional wizard who went to a wee school somewhere in the north of the UK????

[kallend 1,623]

jbscout2002

******It seems that concealed carry doesn't reduce crime after all, according to Texas A&M research:

www.hindawi.com/journals/jcrim/2015/803742/

I think nothing is going to reduce crime other than more focused policing in higher come areas. Your occupation listed on your profile suggest you are a somewhat intelligent person lol. You know that for every study proving CCW doesn't work, there is one proving it does. For every study showing gun control works, there is one proving it actually increases crime.

These aren't soccer moms and red necks arguing about guns. These are Harvard Law studies and UCLA Criminology studies and they all disprove each other constantly.

I subscribe to CCW magazine and every month I can cite to you all the incidents where a CCW saved lives without a single shot being fired and lead to the apprehension of the criminal. I can cite cases where cops have had their lives saves by armed citizens.

Based purely on statistics, some stats see a drop in crime after enacting CCW laws. Some see the opposite. I think it has less to do with the CCW and more to do with what is going on in that state. There are actually a very small number of people who go through all the trouble to get a CCW.

Perfect example of this is Illinois. With he violence in Chicago, Il finally lifted the ban on CCW after being forced into it. But, the state made the process extremely difficult, expensive, and time consuming. There was then a 12-18 processing period before your CCW was issued. So after the CCW was enacted, it was almost 2 years before the first citizens there began to obtain them. Meanwhile during that first year, come continued to rise, and this was cited as empirical proof that CCW does not work. Although in reality, there was no one with a CCW during that time period.

Simply untrue. This is not the first time in this thread that you have written stuff than simply isn't true (like claiming the Oregon gunman was under 21).

You need to do a better job of fact checking.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 212]

Amazon

*********

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

Or get your elected representatives to change the laws. That is actually how the system works. your precious Constitution has been amended 27 times, so it is far from perfect and there are even changes to it that you would advocate for I bet.

Tell you what - if you do not like free speech, and/or elected representative govt for and by the people then YOU move out.
At least I earned my citizenship - you took the easy route and were just born here.

TK is correct.

I'm always amused by the childish reply "If you don't like it then leave". I did just that. I have no interest in ever living in the US again, nor do I wish to visit often.

It's not difficult. If you see another country/company/person getting a better result; copy them or try something similar.

This "but we're different, we're special" falls on deaf ears for the rest of the industrialised world - you're not special princess.




Believe us when we don't disagree with your decision to leave and not come back.

Thing is, I believe and have pride in this country. I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

People that immigrate to this country hen try to change it to the European way of life should take a step back and consider what they are doing.

Those people that earned their citizenship, and those that have come and gone, and criticize this great nation, should maybe take a step back and remember the cost in the form of lives and families it took to create the country they enjoy the fruits of.

What seems to be over looked, if not taken completely for granted, is that a lot of Americans will lay down their lives, and have, to protect the freedom to allow the criticism so generously bandied about. Perhaps a few moments of introspection and attempts at understanding would do well to temper the "holier than thou" attitude a bit.

My guess is that not very many of these people coming in and earning their citizenship, or those crossing the border illegally, would lay their lives down to protect our rights.

As a PSA announcement.. I saw a news report on the NW Cable News Channel.. the shooters father was interviewed and is from the UK .One of the Portland stations was reporting the gunman in Roseburg was BORN in the UK . The guy lived with his mother in Oregon and his manifesto was talking about going to party with Satan.

It must have been the conservatism in this country to drive those silly Limeys all bat shit crazy then.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,623]

jtiflyer

***************

Quote

Can you offer one single control measure that could effectively prevent anything from happening?

No, nor is that a realistic expectation. Generally you would look for ways to reduce, not prevent gun crime.

This one I agree with. I just don't think the answer can be found on the far left or far right. My position is that in choosing a side I'm going to protect gun rights because I don't think that stripping them away will solve anything.

There are an estimated 200 million guns in America owned by an estimated 60-65 million people. Personally, I think the real number is twice that much.

If you ban all guns in America, completely disarm the country, and make everything illegal, there are still 200 million guns out there. Most people will not comply, so those guns will be stashed here and there, and steadily people will get caught with them and the prisons will become inundated with otherwise good law abiding people who became a nonviolent criminal over night because they disagreed with a law that violated their constitution.

Even if I played along, my approximately $25k collection of firearms becomes illegal and I just hand it over to be melted down without compensation?

This is a strawman. No-one is seriously suggesting a total gun ban.

There is a lot of middle ground between the totally ineffective system we currently have that fails to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them (convicted felons, the mentally disturbed), and a total ban. Canada and Australia... have not banned guns, but they do a far better job of preventing gun crime than we do.

The USA has the worst record of gun murders of any first world nation. And that is NOT because Americans are just nastier people than Australians, Brits and Canadians.

And if you REMOVE DETROIT, CHICAGO, NEW ORLEANS, WASHINGTON DC. We drop to almost the bottom of that list. So we should just ban those cities right?? Maybe raze them and start over? Its not a problem of the tools used, its a society and mental health problem.

Incorrect. When comparing rates properly (per 100,000 population), NYC and Chicago don't even make the top 30. Places like Birmingham, KC, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami and Little Rock are far worse.

kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/



and I was speaking as a country. If you remove the numbers from those cities alone, our ranking drops significantly

Apparently mathematics is not your strong point. To drop our ranking we need to drop the worst cities, and NYC and Chicago are not the worst, by far.

Also, if you are going to do that, you need also to drop the worst cities in the other countries for the comparison to be valid.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

I put it down to the very usual for most of these numbnutz.... a lot of anti-social behavior.... can't fit in..... cant get laid... hell his "manifesto" was blaming some of this on his inability to get a girlfriend.

He specifically targeted his Thursday morning ENGLISH class so he knew many of these people.

[kallend 1,623]

jtiflyer

huh gun free country everybody....

yet somehow it still happens

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/parramatta-police-headquarters-site-of-shooting-two-dead/6824320

1. It's not "gun free".

2. On an AVERAGE day in the USA thirty people are murdered with guns. Every day, 365 days a year.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

I guess the founding fathers should have moved out as well, since they created a process to change laws and even amend the Constitution. Why have a mechanism to change the Constitution when you can just get rid of anyone who doesn't think things are perfect as they are?

Don't like slavery? Then move!
Don't think women should be able to vote? Get out!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Amazon 7]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

I guess the founding fathers should have moved out as well, since they created a process to change laws and even amend the Constitution. Why have a mechanism to change the Constitution when you can just get rid of anyone who doesn't think things are perfect as they are?

Don't like slavery? Then move!
Don't think women should be able to vote? Get out!

Don

The founding fathers knew of a time when the English did just that.... they did not tell you to go.... they arrested you and shipped you here for even the smallest hint of not being quick enough to bend a knee.. or if you supposedly broke some of the most innane of their many laws. Once here many were just SOLD on the docks for years of servitude.... if they could survive those years.

[wmw999 2,123]

Turtle, the country is built on change. How many countries have a defined way to change how they're governed (besides the ever-popular coup). It's not the same as it was 50 years ago, or 100 years ago.

And contrary to some opinions, there is no ideal time in the past. 100 years ago it was OK to send some people to substandard schools; it was OK simply to pay everyone except for white men less, if you hired them at all. A widowed or divorced woman probably had to send her children off to live with someone else.

If you were sick, you either got better of your own or didn't. Doctors weren't much help in many cases (which is why medical care was so much cheaper). Industrialized food was very possibly altered with what's currently considered to be poison.

The U.S. is a great country. But there are countries all over the world with happy people living there, with militaries that sign up to defend their country. And if they decide to move here (we live in a mobile society), why wouldn't they want to import what they thought worked well? After all, there are few modern countries that don't have supermarkets and fast food restaurants. As well as Italian food, Chinese food, Mexican food, and plenty of other cross-cultural fertilization. The issue is that what's considered to be OK changes over the years.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

Amazon

As a PSA announcement.. I saw a news report on the NW Cable News Channel.. the shooters father was interviewed and is from the UK .One of the Portland stations was reporting the gunman in Roseburg was BORN in the UK . The guy lived with his mother in Oregon and his manifesto was talking about going to party with Satan.

Thanks for pointing out that he was just another misguided, angry, atheistic Brit unable to cope with the American way of life. If I would have posted that info I would have been labelled racist.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,623]

Amazon

***

Quote

Tkhayes if you dont like the laws in THIS country than MOVE OUT!

I guess the founding fathers should have moved out as well, since they created a process to change laws and even amend the Constitution. Why have a mechanism to change the Constitution when you can just get rid of anyone who doesn't think things are perfect as they are?

Don't like slavery? Then move!
Don't think women should be able to vote? Get out!

Don

The founding fathers knew of a time when the English did just that.... they did not tell you to go.... they arrested you and shipped you here for even the smallest hint of not being quick enough to bend a knee.. or if you supposedly broke some of the most innane of their many laws. Once here many were just SOLD on the docks for years of servitude.... if they could survive those years.

Ah, the good old days that all conservatives long for.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[christelsabine 1]

How old is turtle?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[turtlespeed 212]

christelsabine

How old is turtle?

How old are you?

How many years did you spend in the military?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[yoink 321]

The US doesn't have a monopoly on nutjobs, unfortunately.

I don't see that his nationality has anything to do with it. Nothing about him is specific to Brits that I can see. That's why nobody else is making a big deal about it... Please feel free to educate me if you think there's some reason why it's particularly relevant.

If he was still in the UK it would have been harder for him to get hold of the guns to murder a load of his classmates. Not impossible, but definitely harder.

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

Turtle, the country is built on change.
I somewhat agree. Its built on a foundation of freedom. The interior finish is designed by change.
How many countries have a defined way to change how they're governed (besides the ever-popular coup). several have constitutions and bills or rights

It's not the same as it was 50 years ago, or 100 years ago.
really? Fundamentally different or superficially different

And contrary to some opinions, there is no ideal time in the past. 100 years ago it was OK to send some people to substandard schools; it was OK simply to pay everyone except for white men less, if you hired them at all. A widowed or divorced woman probably had to send her children off to live with someone else.
Yes, and according to a website I posted in another thread, the U.K. Only passed an equal pay law 45 years ago, and the site states it still struggles with equality across the board. So why single out the US for all the ire?

If you were sick, you either got better of your own or didn't. Doctors weren't much help in many cases (which is why medical care was so much cheaper). Industrialized food was very possibly altered with what's currently considered to be poison.
Again, we aren't disagreeing here, but I believe that capitalism in and of the medical industry here is what made it the best for many years, debatable if it still is now." So why bash it?

The U.S. is a great country. But there are countries all over the world with happy people living there, with militaries that sign up to defend their country. And if they decide to move here (we live in a mobile society), why wouldn't they want to import what they thought worked well? After all, there are few modern countries that don't have supermarkets and fast food restaurants. As well as Italian food, Chinese food, Mexican food, and plenty of other cross-cultural fertilization. The issue is that what's considered to be OK changes over the years.
Once again, we vary very little. I don't have any issue with change, I was speaking to the apparent attitude and flippancy that certain posters here disrespect, and belittle our country. I just find it ironic that they are biting the hand that feeds them. My suggestion was to step back and learn more of our culture and the sacrifices we have made to ensure they have a country to enjoy. Yet, as they enjoy it, they attempt to disgrace it. My opinion is if you immigrate here, then decide to slander and complain and bash, do so after you have served this country, and earn the right to be able to do that. It's a respect issue. If they don't respect the country then they are more than welcome to leave it to those of us that do.

Wendy P.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 58]

yoink

The US doesn't have a monopoly on nutjobs, unfortunately.

I don't see that his nationality has anything to do with it. Nothing about him is specific to Brits that I can see. That's why nobody else is making a big deal about it... Please feel free to educate me if you think there's some reason why it's particularly relevant.

If he was still in the UK it would have been harder for him to get hold of the guns to murder a load of his classmates. Not impossible, but definitely harder.

You are correct. My opinion is simply based on what I read here in SC.

The shooter could have just as easily been a misguided, angry, atheistic liberal Democrat unable to cope with personal responsibility. That is most common stereotype here in America.

The bottom line is that nut jobs are breeding everywhere in the world. These are the end times. This evil cannot be stopped and is only going to get worse. All anyone can do is secure themselves, their family and as much of their community as possible.

I believe the next couple of years in the U.S. are going to be very bad.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

Lol, right.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

I know it's not perfect, but it is the best country in the world today.

Lol, right.

It's good that you agree.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[yoink 321]

This 'best' thing is idiotic.

There were parts about living in the UK that I miss and things I think they do right. There are also parts that I really didn't like.

That statement applies equally to living in the US.


Have you ever lived abroad for an extended period of time, Turtle?

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

The shooter could have just as easily been a misguided, angry, atheistic liberal Democrat unable to cope with personal responsibility. That is most common stereotype here in America.

Odd, then, that he described himself as a "conservative republican" in an online dating profile. [link]

So much for your "stereotype".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 58]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

The shooter could have just as easily been a misguided, angry, atheistic liberal Democrat unable to cope with personal responsibility. That is most common stereotype here in America.

Odd, then, that he described himself as a "conservative republican" in an online dating profile. [link]

So much for your "stereotype".

Don

I think my stereotype holds ground. This last miscreant had a learning disability. He may not have understood what conservative Republican means.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.