Here comes the Pope

[headoverheels 329]

http://news.yahoo.com/brian-williams-return-anchor-msnbc-pope-coverage-162433573.html

This need a meme, like Brian saying "when I was driving the Pope-mobile for the previous Pontiff..."

[cruelpops 0]

Pope on a rope. Good grief... the dude needs to go back to Italy.

[kallend 1,853]

The religious right is suffering apoplexy, since this Pope is telling them that they should actually do what Jesus preaches. Oh, the horror!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,772]

>Pope on a rope. Good grief... the dude needs to go back to Italy.

The Pope isn't saying what the right wing wants. O the horror!

When a party moves so far right that even the Pope seems like a leftist commie, time to rethink that party's position.

[Amazon 7]

billvon

>Pope on a rope. Good grief... the dude needs to go back to Italy.

The Pope isn't saying what the right wing wants. O the horror!

When a party moves so far right that even the Pope seems like a leftist commie, time to rethink that party's position.

I think they long for the days like in the 80's when right wing deathsquads killed priests and clergy all over the countries to the south of us when the were seen to not be "conservative" enough and were helping the people in their parishes.....the wrong people... not the people who "mattered" who the right saw as commie sympathizers.

Kind of sounds like some of our compassionate conservatives here are not too far away from some of that action based on some of their posts.

[billvon 2,772]

>I think they long for the days like in the 80's when right wing deathsquads
>killed priests and clergy . . . .

I seriously doubt it. I think they just long for the days when the Pope agreed with them, and thus could claim that they were aligned with religious morality.

Today, any religious issue that the GOP agrees with the Pope on is just common sense. Abortion, gay marriage etc. But any religious issue that the Pope disagrees with the GOP on - compassion for the poor and homeless, acceptance of immigrants, caring for the planet, the death penalty - is politics, and the Pope should stay out of politics!

There could be no clearer indication of how far right the GOP has gone than the fact that his speech - a speech where he defends the rights of the unborn and denounces attacks on the family - was boycotted by Republicans because it was 'socialist' and the Pope was trying to 'guilt people into leftist policies.'

[okalb 100]

Just in case anyone missed the old thread. According to Ron (our friendly neighborhood Christian here in the forums), Catholics aren't really Christians. So the pope doesn't matter anyway.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[RonD1120 59]

okalb

Just in case anyone missed the old thread. According to Ron (our friendly neighborhood Christian here in the forums), Catholics aren't really Christians. So the pope doesn't matter anyway.

Correction, it's Roman Catholics may not be Christians.

The "holy catholic church" as stated in the Apostles Creed refers to the universal church or body of Christ.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[SivaGanesha 2]

So here is the Pope's quote from today:

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/24/9391549/pope-remarks-full-text

On this continent, too, thousands of persons are led to travel north in search of a better life for themselves and for their loved ones, in search of greater opportunities. Is this not what we want for our own children? We must not be taken aback by their numbers...

In this quote, the Pope is urging Congress to admit any and all illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Now let me get this straight: Mexico is a predominantly Catholic country (about 85% Catholic). The USA is far more diverse (only about 20% Catholic today). So the Pope is basically admitting that Catholics from Mexico can find a better life for themselves by emigrating--even illegally--to a predominantly non-Catholic country?

If that claim is true, doesn't the Pope himself have a lot to answer for regarding that sorry state of affairs?

Later he says not to be dismayed by the numbers, but he is admitting that the true numbers are pretty 'dismaying' when he says 'thousands' when the true numbers are millions if not tens of millions.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[SivaGanesha 2]

And I would also add: I'm actually personally open to the idea of legalizing a significant number of illegal immigrants, especially those who have been here a long time, have family here, and have generally abided by the law except specifically regarding their immigration status.

But it is an internal policy and political decision for us to make within the US. We are free ethically and morally to either turn away or accept immigrants from any country. It is not an appropriate subject for moral or ethical lectures from foreign leaders and especially not from the leader of a country (Vatican City) which, by and large, won't even accept women as immigrants.

Both the Chinese president and the Pope are visiting the USA this week. I am told that one of these guys is an inspiring leader and the other has a bit of a spotty human rights record, but I haven't quite been able to figure out which is which yet.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[jakee 1,379]

SivaGanesha

So the Pope is basically admitting that Catholics from Mexico can find a better life for themselves by emigrating--even illegally--to a predominantly non-Catholic country?

If that claim is true, doesn't the Pope himself have a lot to answer for regarding that sorry state of affairs?

Umm' no?

Look, I'm about as far from a fan of the Catholic Church or any pope as houre likely to get but I fail to see how Mexico's economic problems are his fault...

Also, re Vatican City immigration, how many people can physically fit inside it, let alone find jobs and homes?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DanG 1]

Quote

Now let me get this straight: Mexico is a predominantly Catholic country (about 85% Catholic). The USA is far more diverse (only about 20% Catholic today). So the Pope is basically admitting that Catholics from Mexico can find a better life for themselves by emigrating--even illegally--to a predominantly non-Catholic country?

If that claim is true, doesn't the Pope himself have a lot to answer for regarding that sorry state of affairs?

So, the Pope shouldn't comment about US domestic policies, but he sould fix the economy and crime problem in Mexico?

Huh?

- Dan G

[SivaGanesha 2]

jakee

Look, I'm about as far from a fan of the Catholic Church or any pope as houre likely to get but I fail to see how Mexico's economic problems are his fault...

Not his fault personally of course but if he were to use his good offices to encourage Mexico and its people (and other countries to the south of the US too) to stay home and make their own countries stronger, it would carry a lot of weight. Or at least it should carry a lot more weight than his remarks within the much more diverse US. I'm not aware of the Pope or any of his predecessors doing so.

Everyone seems to put pressure on the US to accept immigrants but no one seems to have the courage to tell the countries that are sending the immigrants that they need to make much needed changes too.

And it definitely is his fault for being dishonest about the numbers and saying 'thousands' when the true numbers are in the millions at the least. We can't expect the Pope to solve all the world's problems single handedly but we can I think expect him to abide by the 8th commandment.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[SivaGanesha 2]

DanG

So, the Pope shouldn't comment about US domestic policies, but he sould fix the economy and crime problem in Mexico?

Of course he can't personally and single handedly fix Mexico's problems but he should speak out against problems in Mexico with greater force than he does in the US given Mexico's much greater Catholic population.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[wmw999 2,334]

I can see your point, but he's visiting the U.S. on this trip. He doesn't have one scheduled to Mexico yet, but he's discussed it with Pena Nieto, and I'm sure he'll have plenty of stern things to say to Mexico, as well.

We can only fix ourselves. Works on a national level just as well as on an individual level. And we will only fix what we can agree needs fixing.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,772]

>Not his fault personally of course but if he were to use his good offices to
>encourage Mexico and its people (and other countries to the south of the US
>too) to stay home and make their own countries stronger

He did. In March, he told Mexicans that "everyone had to put their back into resolving" the problems in Mexico.

[gowlerk 2,114]

It does kind of suck when a foreign leader of any kind sticks their nose into another country's affairs and gives unwanted advice. US leaders would never do that. The USA always minds it own and lets others do the same.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Boomerdog 0]

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Correction, it's Roman Catholics may not be Christians.

C'mom Ron, you and I have had a discussion over this one.

Quote

The "holy catholic church" as stated in the Apostles Creed refers to the universal church or body of Christ.

From Wikipedia: "The title Symbolum Apostolicum (Symbol or Creed of the Apostles) appears for the first time in a letter, probably written by Ambrose, from a Council in Milan to Pope Siricius in about 390: "Let them give credit to the Creed of the Apostles, which the Roman Church has always kept and preserved undefiled". But what existed at that time was not what is now known as the Apostles' Creed but a shorter statement of belief that, for instance, did not include the phrase "maker of heaven and earth", a phrase that may have been inserted only in the 7th century."

The creed originated in the Roman Catholic Church so the term "holy catholic church" is a reference to the church of origin. I know, I know, the Protestant Church uses the lower case "c" in catholic to mean "universal church" and the Roman Catholics use the capital "C" to mean the Roman Catholic Church.

So the Protestants are using a creed (with some slight variations that does not take away the core meaning of the confession itself) originating from a source that may not be Christian? Uh oh...!

My point? We're on the same side here. It's just a minor difference of approach, certainly NOT worth fighting a religious war over.

[winsor 227]

kallend

The religious right is suffering apoplexy, since this Pope is telling them that they should actually do what Jesus preaches. Oh, the horror!

Uh, the book from which Jesus is routinely quoted was copyrighted by the Catholic Church. The fact that the Church repeats what they claim Jesus said is hardly a great surprise.

"That's what Jesus said, yeah, that's the ticket!"

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

The Pope isn't saying what the right wing wants. O the horror!

Actually, the Pope is saying some things neither side is going to like.

The Catholic Church sees immigration from the principal view of the sanctity of the family and keeping the family intact. It's evident that immigration places a major disruption and potential dissolution of the family unit. The Church's definition of the family is a father (a man) a mother (a woman) who are husband and wife and their sons and daughters. The Church's definition of the family was established about 2 millennia ago and that definition is not subject to change.

So the Pope addresses this issue to the President and the Congress against a backdrop of Democrats looking for a large new voting base and Republicans who are backed by supporters looking for cheaper labor. The Church is supportive in the context of IT'S position, NOT the position of a bunch of D's and R's.

If there is any criticism I have of this Pope is that he is at times too nuanced and thus gets misinterpreted by the press who thinks he's saying what they want to hear. The fact is this Pope like those before him cannot and will not deviate from established Church doctrine and teachings handed down from 2,000 years to the present. It's like the iceberg, what is said on the surface in nuanced soundbites needs to be checked against the larger body of teachings and doctrine below the surface. In the end, what the press reports and the readership takes in is very different from what the Pope means.

Obviously, many here may not like that and the Church will say that is your choice.

[RonD1120 59]

The term catholic is attributed to the Protestant Reformation. I guess technically I am part of that group, especially since I was ordained as an elder in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). However, I am a Pentecostal and we don't use the term at all. I was merely correcting okalb who was trying to put words in my mouth.

In reality, there are some Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, etc. that may not be Christians. Remember, going to a church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sleeping in a garage makes you a car.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Boomerdog 0]

Once again from Wikipedia:

The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective (katholikos), meaning "universal" comes from the Greek phrase (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words; meaning "about" and; meaning "whole".The word in English can mean either "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing" or "of the Roman Catholic faith" as "relating to the historic doctrine and practice of the Western Church." ("Catholicos", the title used for the head of some churches in Eastern Christian traditions, is derived from the same linguistic origin.)
The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. In non-ecclesiastical use, it derives its English meaning directly from its root, and is currently used to mean the following:
universal or of general interest;
liberal, having broad interests, or wide sympathies; or
inclusive, inviting and containing strong evangelism.

Word origin in the 2nd Century...just a "few" years before October 31, 1517.

[Amazon 7]

winsor

***
The religious right is suffering apoplexy, since this Pope is telling them that they should actually do what Jesus preaches. Oh, the horror!

Uh, the book from which Jesus is routinely quoted was copyrighted by the Catholic Church. The fact that the Church repeats what they claim Jesus said is hardly a great surprise.

"That's what Jesus said, yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ron is a follower of the Official English Protestant version of the bible.... King James..... a very flawed individual who did not do much good for his people in the name of GOD.
It was a horrid time in England and the amount of people killed in the surrounding countries in the name of Puritanical Dogma is a legacy that they seem to forget. But at least they had America to drive all of the surviving heretics to.

[billvon 2,772]

>Actually, the Pope is saying some things neither side is going to like.

Definitely. Nice to see someone who isn't aligned with any specific political group.

[Driver1 0]

Apparently, this photo is real... The pope meets Obama...

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!