More mass shootings

[Phil1111 913]

There is a pendulum of politics in democracies. It swings to the right, to the left and back again. Sometimes the pendulum swings too far.

The republicans and trump will have to pay for their excess. Imagine Bernie Sanders on steroids.
- the second amendment is struck from the constitution.
- new manufacture and importation of firearms is prohibited.
- 100,000 law enforcement officers are trained as gun appraisers and a buyback program legislated.
- ownership is banned by law, like Japan.

America needs a black female president to punish evangelicals and gun owners.
Since Oprah doesn't seem interested, its Condoleezza Rice. Unlike trump who worships fake stories of his lack of success there is:
https://www.amazon.com/Condoleezza-Rice/e/B001IU2U6I

I can hear the sermons on Christian TV now. "I'm sorry Lord, give me back Obama and I will never sin again".

[Bob_Church 7]

Phil1111

There is a pendulum of politics in democracies. It swings to the right, to the left and back again. Sometimes the pendulum swings too far.

The republicans and trump will have to pay for their excess. Imagine Bernie Sanders on steroids.
- the second amendment is struck from the constitution.
- new manufacture and importation of firearms is prohibited.
- 100,000 law enforcement officers are trained as gun appraisers and a buyback program legislated.
- ownership is banned by law, like Japan.

America needs a black female president to punish evangelicals and gun owners.
Since Oprah doesn't seem interested, its Condoleezza Rice. Unlike trump who worships fake stories of his lack of success there is:
https://www.amazon.com/Condoleezza-Rice/e/B001IU2U6I

I can hear the sermons on Christian TV now. "I'm sorry Lord, give me back Obama and I will never sin again".

I'm not sure how well that holds up anymore, the pendulum that is. With the internet we've pretty much divided the country in half with neither side ever in danger of reading or hearing something that disagrees with their world vision.
I think that all this information, not the glut of it, but our ability too easily sort through and categorize it before we even read it, has made some fundamental changes to society. And not good ones.

[rushmc 18]

I want you to understand something.

When talking about not giving a fuck what you think, I'm talking about that in the context of this forum in this thread going back and forth. Also in the context that I'm a US citizen and you don't appear to be based on your profile here. Should I ever meet you face to face and we talked I would show you the respect that you deserve as a human being.

Marc

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

You still have yet to understand how conversations work on forums.
You contribute nothing but insults and bring less to a conversation here.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

You still have yet to understand how conversations work on forums.
You contribute nothing but insults and bring less to a conversation here.

The irony score here is off the fucking charts

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

We already know you don't understand what irony is, but thanks.

I would also expect you know very little of "fucking charts".

[gowlerk 1,923]

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Good! Maybe you go away. Not that I give a damn what you think anyway.

Today I have time for your nonsense. Most days you are but a faint noise that I hear briefly when I visit this site.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,923]

rushmc

I want you to understand something.

When talking about not giving a fuck what you think, I'm talking about that in the context of this forum in this thread going back and forth. Also in the context that I'm a US citizen and you don't appear to be based on your profile here. Should I ever meet you face to face and we talked I would show you the respect that you deserve as a human being.

Marc

Thank you. I'm a Canadian and I live due north of you in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Occasionally I jump in Fargo ND, but not for a couple years now. I drive a semi and most of my miles are spent driving between home and US deliveries and back again. That means I spend about a third of my life in your country. And I drive through or even into SD a lot. I sort of understand about the internet trash talking thing. You have strong opinions, most of them completely against the flow here, and you get frustrated easily. I assume that you are a hard working and successful man and that you get along just fine with all kinds of people with all kinds of views in real life.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[lippy 775]

Quote

Irony noun, plural ironies.
1.
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning:

Inigo Montoya wanted me to pass this along to you, you're welcome

I got nuthin

[yoink 321]

Bob_Church

***Words are cheap.

The fact is no real action is taken to try and prevent school shootings. People are too worried that it may impact their ability to walk around with guns. It’s so bad that people will declare school shootings fake news.

Edited to add: I’ll bet you both you and Rush has no clue there had been 11 school shootings, nor would you be able to tel where they were without googling it. So spare me the fake caring.

You have no clue what I know or don't know. But here's a question I've asked before and as far as I can tell got no response at all.
Assume that the Second Amendment gets revoked, gone, and the NRA disbands. You can create any law you want. So, how do you end these shootings?

You've asked this before, and I've pretty sure I've answered you. Specifically. In detail... But both you and rush ignored it in that thread. HooknSwoop (I think it was) even responded that he wouldn't support ANYTHING that limited his ability to fire a gun whenever and wherever he wanted. Think about that for a second...

I've written to about 14 senators so far with my proposal and will continue to write to the rest because I honestly believe that while it presents a viable solution to this issue, it will more directly make it obvious that gun rights advocates will NEVER accept any limitations, so society at large should ignore them - if they're not willing to compromise, neither am I.

All guns must be fitted with a device that prevents their firing except in predefined locations based on their GPS location. This device must be a fail-safe one where tampering disables the firing mechanism. That's it. You can have any number of firearms, of any type, with any ammunition or modifications you want.

Your own home is enabled by default, as is any legitimate firing range in the US. If you want to go hunting you sign in to an app, scan your weapon's bar code and say where and when you'll be hunting. That gets reviewed and approved for that location for that particular date range... If you say 'I want to be able to shoot this gun in a location that includes a school or mall or cinema' it doesn't get approved and you get a visit from the cops.

The technical hurdles are just that. They can be overcome by people smarter than me. But any solution to this issue will take centuries to effect and as a society we have to accept that. That's why all these knee-jerk reactions are like slapping a band aid on a jugular would.

[billvon 2,426]

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When talking about not giving a fuck what you think, I'm talking about that in the context of this forum in this thread going back and forth.

If you didn't care what he thought you wouldn't answer. Given that you have answered hi dozens of times, you do care (demonstrably.) Which is fine.

[nolhtairt 0]

gowlerk

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You fail to realize that no gun buyback program ever worked. People brought in their old non-working guns and made a fortune. Americans are not going to sell their guns back. No way no how

It's worked elsewhere. Americans are not so different. Most of the are human. I'm talking about a long term buyback. It would reduce the numbers over a period of many years. Note, I said "reduce" not eliminate.

To be fair, it's not going to prompt criminals holding illegal or stolen guns from turning them in. Thus putting upstanding citizens more at risk after they've sold their guns to the govt.

They'll have to pry my legal guns from my cold, dead hands.

[gowlerk 1,923]

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To be fair, it's not going to prompt criminals holding illegal or stolen guns from turning them in.

I've heard this before. Criminals are generally not very smart. Or resourceful. The only reason so many criminals in the US have guns is that your country is awash in them. If the supply were to dry up they would no longer have them. It's not like they carefully stash them, or anything else away for the future.

In Canada for example it is rare for criminals to have firearms. Some crimes are committed with legal rifles or shotguns. But the rate is a fraction of the US rate. The exception is the handguns that are smuggled over the border from less civilized places. We only have one border so I'm sure you know the place I mean.

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They'll have to pry my legal guns from my cold, dead hands.

I know. The buy back program would be voluntary and as long as you continue to be a responsible gun owner you would be grandfathered. Your children can turn them in after your hands turn cold.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

When the supply chain is tightened up and weapons are finally properly secured, that chain of stolen weapons diminishes over time.
Add to that the actual enforcement of illegal weapons possession, especially for convicted criminals, and they go away forever at some point.
The current lack of enforcement of gun laws makes it too easy for guns to get to the wrong hands.

[kallend 1,646]

nolhtairt

***

Quote

You fail to realize that no gun buyback program ever worked. People brought in their old non-working guns and made a fortune. Americans are not going to sell their guns back. No way no how

It's worked elsewhere. Americans are not so different. Most of the are human. I'm talking about a long term buyback. It would reduce the numbers over a period of many years. Note, I said "reduce" not eliminate.

To be fair, it's not going to prompt criminals holding illegal or stolen guns from turning them in. Thus putting upstanding citizens more at risk after they've sold their guns to the govt.

They'll have to pry my legal guns from my cold, dead hands.

Must be why Australia continued to have mass shootings after their laws were tightened up.

Oh, wait....

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

nolhtairt

***

Quote

You fail to realize that no gun buyback program ever worked. People brought in their old non-working guns and made a fortune. Americans are not going to sell their guns back. No way no how

It's worked elsewhere. Americans are not so different. Most of the are human. I'm talking about a long term buyback. It would reduce the numbers over a period of many years. Note, I said "reduce" not eliminate.

To be fair, it's not going to prompt criminals holding illegal or stolen guns from turning them in. Thus putting upstanding citizens more at risk after they've sold their guns to the govt.

They'll have to pry my legal guns from my cold, dead hands.

That presumes the biggest hurdle in logic, that a person without a firearm is in danger from a person with one and that having a firearm is the only defense. The next hurdle is the understanding that yes, there will be a period in which firearms are more readily available to criminals. However, they're equally as available to criminals right now AND there's an ever present new supply coming out of the legal firearm sales sector.

What most people don't get is that sure, anyone is at risk of being robbed at gunpoint but that's not a realistic scenario. Gun violence is typically happening between individuals who are both involved in criminal activities. So don't get involved in drugs, don't get involved in activities with criminals. Stay out of high crime areas and use common sense. The next advice is very unfortunate, don't be poor because poor urban environments is where the vast majority of gun crimes and homicides occur.

The real issue is that gun crime is not as prevalent in areas with less poverty and better educated individuals. That's kind of a no-brainer but it supports the logic that putting money into improving schools has a direct feedback into improving the community. There's a shithole highschool down the street from my office where they barely have a fence around the field and can't have a football team because people keep getting into turf wars at their games and besides there's barely enough money to field a team. This is in Richmond Virginia, goddam USA and it's taken as just a fact of life now as if regular murders on school property is an unsolvable problem.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rifleman 61]

nolhtairt

To be fair, it's not going to prompt criminals holding illegal or stolen guns from turning them in. Thus putting upstanding citizens more at risk after they've sold their guns to the govt.

It's strange, but here in the UK, the government managed to persuade a terrorist organisation to turn over vast quantities of weapons.
https://www.voanews.com/a/a-13-2005-09-27-voa32/397393.html

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[tonyhays 86]

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Must be why Australia continued to have mass shootings after their laws were tightened up.

Oh, wait....

Oh yeah?? Well the buyback only takes guns away from responsible gun owners. If a criminal wants a gun they can still get one....

Oh wait...

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/cost-illegal-firearms-australia-has-skyrocketed-criminals-now-do-gun-sharing-1378871

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[Phil1111 913]

tonyhays

Quote

Must be why Australia continued to have mass shootings after their laws were tightened up.

Oh, wait....

Oh yeah?? Well the buyback only takes guns away from responsible gun owners. If a criminal wants a gun they can still get one....

Oh wait...

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/cost-illegal-firearms-australia-has-skyrocketed-criminals-now-do-gun-sharing-1378871

Well:
Gun Control in Australia, Updated
"the 1996 law, Australia banned certain semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and imposed stricter licensing and registration requirements. It also instituted a mandatory buyback program for firearms banned by the 1996 law.

During the buyback program, Australians sold 640,000 prohibited firearms to the government, and voluntarily surrendered about 60,000 non-prohibited firearms. In all, more than 700,000 weapons were surrendered, according to a Library of Congress report on Australian gun policy. One study says that the program reduced the number of guns in private hands by 20 percent.

In 2002, Australia further tightened gun laws, restricting the caliber, barrel length and capacity for sport shooting handguns.

With Australia’s population steadily increasing, the nation’s homicide incident rate has fallen even more than the number of homicides — from 1.6 per 100,000 in 1995-96 to 1 per 100,000 in 2013-2014, according to a government report on crime trends. That was the lowest homicide incident rate at the time in 25 years, as we mentioned earlier.

The number of firearm-related homicides also has dropped substantially since the 1996 gun law was enacted."
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/

[billvon 2,426]

>The number of firearm-related homicides also has dropped substantially since the 1996 gun law was enacted.

This outcome terrifies the NRA more than all the Obamas, Pelosis and Schumers put together.

[gowlerk 1,923]

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This outcome terrifies the NRA more than all the Obamas, Pelosis and Schumers put together.

The NRA is mostly a bunch of guys sitting around figuring out how they can raise more money scaring their members. Great gig if you can get it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,923]

Not a mass shooting. Just a very sad example of the price America pays for privilege of being able to treat firearms as mere toys.

http://time.com/5121966/man-kills-himself-after-shooting-friend/?xid=homepage

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 622]

yay. America.

[Bob_Church 7]

gowlerk

Not a mass shooting. Just a very sad example of the price America pays for privilege of being able to treat firearms as mere toys.

http://time.com/5121966/man-kills-himself-after-shooting-friend/?xid=homepage

And this points out one of the biggest problems with trying to control them. They found ten guns in this guy's house and car. And that's not all that unusual. Add that to the fact that businesses are stamping new guns out daily like they were cd players and you can see why any form of control that doesn't do something to deal with the number of guns is doomed. There are just too many of them and too many sources for getting them.

[gowlerk 1,923]

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And this points out one of the biggest problems with trying to control them. They found ten guns in this guy's house and car. And that's not all that unusual. Add that to the fact that businesses are stamping new guns out daily like they were cd players and you can see why any form of control that doesn't do something to deal with the number of guns is doomed. There are just too many of them and too many sources for getting them.

So then, just bury your head in the sand and say "nothing can be done"? Bullshit. America put men onto the moon. This is a much smaller problem. Just like the moon program it only takes the will to git'er done.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.