jgoose71 0 #51 July 17, 2015 DanG Quote Exhibit A: U.S. monitoring of WMD's in Iraq. We'll leave it at that. Ah, you're one of those people that believe Iraq had an active WMD program, even though no concrete evidence of it was ever found. Well then of course you believe that Iran will develop nukes while being monitored. In fact, they'll probably do it in a complete invisible building, just like Saddam did. I get it now. As an EOD technician who served in Iraq, I do have an opinion based on 1st hand information, but it doesn't change the fact that you are deflecting...The point was Iran will cheat. I give that a 100% chance. Intelligence getting it's reports right, 50% chance. And no matter if the reports are right or wrong, the odds of our government doing the right thing in this toxic highly partisan environment, 0% chance. Exhibit B: Red line in Syria, Exhibit C: ISIS JV Squad, Exhibit D: Afghanistan draw down, Exhibit E: Arab Spring, Exhibit F: Benghazi, Exhibit G: Pull out of Iraq.... I could go on and on. End result of this deal is we are lifting sanctions and in the end there will be no consequences to cheating with this administration."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #52 July 17, 2015 >The point was Iran will cheat. They will try. As a result of these inspection agreements, it will be harder for them to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #53 July 17, 2015 billvon>The point was Iran will cheat. They will try. As a result of these inspection agreements, it will be harder for them to do. No one is saying that this is worse than doing nothing at all as far as I can tell. Sure I will take this over nothing if they were going to do it anyways, but I think we gave too much. Have a look at the graphics showing what Iran wanted vs what the US wanted, and the outcomes. We got bent over the negotiations table and spanked. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #54 July 17, 2015 Anvilbrother No one is saying that this is worse than doing nothing at all ... I'll say it. Quote... but I think we gave too much.... We got bent over the negotiations table and spanked. For that reason, this could very well be worse than doing nothing at all. We lose face in a big way agreeing to such a weak deal that leaves plenty of room for this regime to dick around, and it does not set a good precedent for terrorists with potential nukes we may have to negotiate with in the future. We're dealing with a barbaric regime that stones people to death for adultery; they perceived our giving into them as a victory. Just a few weeks ago there was chanting of 'death to America' in the streets on Al-Quds day, and just a few nights ago they were partying in the streets over this deal. And where are the celebrations in the US? Nowhere to be found because we got played. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #55 July 17, 2015 If they managed to successfully build a nuclear weapon, it might actually improve stability in the region. After all, it's the only 100% proven effective (thus far) way to keep the US from invading your country. Probably would make the Israelis freak out, but honestly they're a bigger shit-stirrer than just about anyone.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #56 July 18, 2015 No once they get one then they basically have a hostage to use over anyone's head to do all kinds of shit. Right now there is no teeth to their madness. Give them a nuke and see how that plays out. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #57 July 18, 2015 AnvilbrotherNo once they get one then they basically have a hostage to use over anyone's head to do all kinds of shit. Right now there is no teeth to their madness. Give them a nuke and see how that plays out. Worth noting we remain the only people to actually hold nukes over someone's head and actually use 'em.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #58 July 18, 2015 Quote Worth noting we remain the only people to actually hold nukes over someone's head and actually use 'em. No its a stupid strawman due to circumstances. I was hoping no one here was going to sink low enough to try that one. I was wrong Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #59 July 18, 2015 The Obama administration’s negotiations over nuclear matters are a disaster. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414440/iran-bad-deal-much-worse-no-deal-robert-joseph-william-tobeyNobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #60 July 18, 2015 billvon>The point was Iran will cheat. They will try. As a result of these inspection agreements, it will be harder for them to do. I still have to disagree. With a 24 day built in delay to visit existing sites and an unlimited amount of red tape to get into any new site, to include military bases, well, be prepared for a new nuclear arms race in the middle east. And Iran's supreme leader has just announced that he will continue to support terrorism through out the middle east. He now has access to an additional $100 billion to further that effort. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-leader-vows-opposition-to-us-despite-nuclear-deal/ar-AAd9SIY"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #61 July 18, 2015 That oped piece is from February, you know. I understand the criticism. I'm not saying the deal is perfect, but there are two reasons I disagree with a lot of the criticism. One, it is not a US deal, it is an international deal. This isn't Obama making a deal with Iran, it is pretty much the whole world making a deal with Iran. Two, the whole point of the sanctions was to get Iran to the negotiating table. It worked. Everything I've heard indicated that Iran wishes to normalize relations with the rest of the world. This deal could be a good first step in that direction. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #62 July 18, 2015 DanGThat oped piece is from February, you know. I understand the criticism. I'm not saying the deal is perfect, but there are two reasons I disagree with a lot of the criticism. One, it is not a US deal, it is an international deal. This isn't Obama making a deal with Iran, it is pretty much the whole world making a deal with Iran. Two, the whole point of the sanctions was to get Iran to the negotiating table. It worked. Everything I've heard indicated that Iran wishes to normalize relations with the rest of the world. This deal could be a good first step in that direction. The point that all the detractors have whooshing right over their heads is that by returning them to the world community and letting them be contributing members instead of in an adversarial relationship, is that they will now have much more to lose when and if they try to cheat. Their young people( in great numbers) do not want to be isolated. Desperate people do desperate things... I forsee them being less willing to support terrorist networks because the fallout from that will affect their bottom line. If they do build and use a bomb... it will unleash the Israelis to make many less millions of Shiite muslims in the world.... it will be all out war... and the Iranians do not want that and they know that Netanyahoo will lose it with even the slightest provocation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #63 July 18, 2015 Anvilbrother Quote Worth noting we remain the only people to actually hold nukes over someone's head and actually use 'em. No its a stupid strawman due to circumstances. I was hoping no one here was going to sink low enough to try that one. I was wrong The fact remains that we're a far, far more aggressive force in the middle east than Iran is. They talk a big game, but we're a hell of a lot closer to "terrorist" badging in the region than any self respecting nation should be.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #64 July 18, 2015 How many other nations has Iran invaded in the past 100 years? How many democratic US governments has Iran overthrown and replaced with dictators? How many disgraced US politicians has Iran sheltered? Now exchange Iran with USA and repeat.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #65 July 19, 2015 kallendHow many other nations has Iran invaded in the past 100 years? I don't know, does proxy wars count? If they do then every country in the region. kallend How many democratic US governments has Iran overthrown and replaced with dictators? How many disgraced US politicians has Iran sheltered? Now exchange Iran with USA and repeat. Sounds like you want to move to the "morally superior" country of Iran. Have fun with Sharia law while chanting "death to America!""There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #66 July 20, 2015 jgoose71***How many other nations has Iran invaded in the past 100 years? I don't know, does proxy wars count? If they do then every country in the region. kallend How many democratic US governments has Iran overthrown and replaced with dictators? How many disgraced US politicians has Iran sheltered? Now exchange Iran with USA and repeat. Sounds like you want to move to the "morally superior" country of Iran. Have fun with Sharia law while chanting "death to America!" Sounds like you don't want to answer some very simple questions.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #67 July 20, 2015 kallend******How many other nations has Iran invaded in the past 100 years? I don't know, does proxy wars count? If they do then every country in the region. kallend How many democratic US governments has Iran overthrown and replaced with dictators? How many disgraced US politicians has Iran sheltered? Now exchange Iran with USA and repeat. Sounds like you want to move to the "morally superior" country of Iran. Have fun with Sharia law while chanting "death to America!" Sounds like you don't want to answer some very simple questions. Seems like you have taught him well.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #68 July 24, 2015 Since there is such varied opinion on this subject, I thought I'd provide something (see attached) since we all might share the same fate. It's an old instruction from the Cold War...just might be useful now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #69 July 24, 2015 Boomerdog Since there is such varied opinion on this subject, I thought I'd provide something (see attached) since we all might share the same fate. It's an old instruction from the Cold War...just might be useful now. And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #70 July 24, 2015 Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #71 July 24, 2015 Boomerdog Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! I think the mullahs know there are not enough virgins in ten paradises for all the martyrs they would create with the use of just one nuclear weapon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #72 July 25, 2015 Amazon *** Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! I think the mullahs know there are not enough virgins in ten paradises for all the martyrs they would create with the use of just one nuclear weapon. It's funny what people think is impossible, even by the deranged.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #73 July 25, 2015 turtlespeed ****** Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! I think the mullahs know there are not enough virgins in ten paradises for all the martyrs they would create with the use of just one nuclear weapon. It's funny what people think is impossible, even by the deranged. Did you ever have a Psyche 101 class??? Think of "in group- out group" dynamics... humans in the out group will tend to believe they have nothing to lose by doing outrageous acts to those who are "in-group" I think it better to help them join the global society.... instead of being the terrorist supporting pariahs we have forced them into by our actions since their sacking of the embassy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #74 July 25, 2015 Amazon ********* Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! I think the mullahs know there are not enough virgins in ten paradises for all the martyrs they would create with the use of just one nuclear weapon. It's funny what people think is impossible, even by the deranged. Did you ever have a Psyche 101 class??? Think of "in group- out group" dynamics... humans in the out group will tend to believe they have nothing to lose by doing outrageous acts to those who are "in-group" I think it better to help them join the global society.... instead of being the terrorist supporting pariahs we have forced them into by our actions since their sacking of the embassy. So what is your plan for Kim Jong un?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #75 July 25, 2015 turtlespeed ************ Quote And you think that nuclear war is unlikely, impossible, or just inconceivable? Why yes to all of the above! I think the mullahs know there are not enough virgins in ten paradises for all the martyrs they would create with the use of just one nuclear weapon. It's funny what people think is impossible, even by the deranged. Did you ever have a Psyche 101 class??? Think of "in group- out group" dynamics... humans in the out group will tend to believe they have nothing to lose by doing outrageous acts to those who are "in-group" I think it better to help them join the global society.... instead of being the terrorist supporting pariahs we have forced them into by our actions since their sacking of the embassy. So what is your plan for Kim Jong un? Not the same one that conservatives would wish to follow. My father died in Korea.... how many more fathers do you think would have orphans should we follow the conservative playbook used in the last decade??? Be sure to provide white cowboy hats to everyone going over just to let them know the good sheriff is in town. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
