Amazon 7 #101 July 27, 2015 Driver1 ******How did appeasement work out for Chamberlain? Hitler called them "worms" after the deal, then grew his military and resources to the point where avoiding war was impossible. The Ayatollah already chants death to America and a few days ago said nothing will change between Iran and the "arrogant" Americans. As we give him the reins and $150 billion dollars. Appeasement will fail here too. Comparing poppy seeds to watermelons..... “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War I don't fear Iran as much as I would have feared Hitler and the Nazis.... but the Nazis didn't have the nuclear bomb. Wait til the Ayatollah gets one or two ready and gets uppity... http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=general+ripper+body+fluids&FORM=VIRE11#view=detail&mid=29B643919A3778548FF029B643919A3778548FF0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #102 July 27, 2015 We gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America", says that this will change nothing between us an the "Arrogant Americans", and recently tweeted a picture of our president with a fucking GUN to his head..... The Obama administration admits that the money will be used to fund terrorist operations, and even Ali Khamenei himself said that the US views are 180 degrees different than Iran's then said "We will never stop supporting our friends in the region and the people of Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain and Lebanon. " Kerry stated it was very disturbing and that "I don't know how to interpret it at this point in time, except to take it at face value, that that's his policy," Appeasement is not going to work with these people. Giving them everything they wanted and 150 billion dollars they are still saying "fuck you" to everyone days after. Even if they do not make the bomb themselves it is already know that they have worked in the past with North Korea who is farther ahead in the areas of bomb delivery and gets support from China, and Russia. You go ahead and keep supporting this dumbass deal. I say everything should have stayed the same and not have just helped fund those fools and provoke war I DO NOT WANT! Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #103 July 27, 2015 Anvilbrother We gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America", says that this will change nothing between us an the "Arrogant Americans", and recently tweeted a picture of our president with a fucking GUN to his head..... The Obama administration admits that the money will be used to fund terrorist operations, and even Ali Khamenei himself said that the US views are 180 degrees different than Iran's then said "We will never stop supporting our friends in the region and the people of Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain and Lebanon. " Kerry stated it was very disturbing and that "I don't know how to interpret it at this point in time, except to take it at face value, that that's his policy," Appeasement is not going to work with these people. Giving them everything they wanted and 150 billion dollars they are still saying "fuck you" to everyone days after. Even if they do not make the bomb themselves it is already know that they have worked in the past with North Korea who is farther ahead in the areas of bomb delivery and gets support from China, and Russia. You go ahead and keep supporting this dumbass deal. I say everything should have stayed the same and not have just helped fund those fools and provoke war I DO NOT WANT! The Ayatollah must have been visiting Conservative pages on Facebook... that kind of tripe is there daily More Fear More of the Time... Sharia Law is coming to Louisiana... Was that sky falling or just bird duuukie.If you do not want WAR.. do not support those beating the drums of WAR... Ike said it 50+ years ago..... and no one seems to have listened about appeasing those who profit from WAR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #104 July 27, 2015 QuoteThe Ayatollah must have been visiting Conservative pages on Facebook... that kind of tripe is there daily More Fear More of the Time... Sharia Law is coming to Louisiana... Was that sky falling or just bird duuukie.Shocked If you do not want WAR.. do not support those beating the drums of WAR... Ike said it 50+ years ago..... and no one seems to have listened about appeasing those who profit from WAR. SMH what a bunch of wasted electrons^^^^^ Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #105 July 27, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuoteThe Ayatollah must have been visiting Conservative pages on Facebook... that kind of tripe is there daily More Fear More of the Time... Sharia Law is coming to Louisiana... Was that sky falling or just bird duuukie.Shocked If you do not want WAR.. do not support those beating the drums of WAR... Ike said it 50+ years ago..... and no one seems to have listened about appeasing those who profit from WAR. SMH what a bunch of wasted electrons^^^^^ The whole thread is a waste of electrons.. brought on by a bunch of GOP congressional leaders( I use that term very loosely) who are all butt hurt from the calls from their billionaires Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #106 July 27, 2015 QuoteThe whole thread is a waste of electrons.. brought on by a bunch of GOP congressional leaders( I use that term very loosely) who are all butt hurt from the calls from their billionaires Source? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #107 July 27, 2015 Anvilbrother Quote The whole thread is a waste of electrons.. brought on by a bunch of GOP congressional leaders( I use that term very loosely) who are all butt hurt from the calls from their billionaires Source? The GOP Congressional Toilet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,138 #108 July 27, 2015 GeorgiaDonQuote I know they are still pissed off about our relationship with their Shah back in the 1950's, but until they let go of their anger...Nice way to minimize the facts: 1. We (via the CIA) engineered a coup to overthrow their democratically elected government and install a dictator of our choosing (the Shah). [Look up "operation Ajax" if you don't believe me.] 2. We (via the CIA) trained the Shah's secret police, the SAVAK, in techniques of torture as well as infiltration of virtually all political activity opposed to the Shah; these tools SAVAK used to great effect to suppress political dissent. Along the way thousands of Iranians were imprisoned and tortured for years, or often just "disappeared". We also spent billions to keep the Shah's military and SAVAK well armed. By smothering the country's developing democracy and installing a dictator who had no scruples about the lengths he would go to, to protect his own power, we (unintentionally I'm sure) forced the marriage of political dissent with fundamentalist Islamic beliefs, by elevating exiled religious leaders such as the Ayatollah to the position of spokesmen for anti-Shah politics. That is a lot to "let go" of. Even so, we can provide a great example. Just look at how we let go of that whole Bay of Pigs fiasco. Or maybe not. Considering the history, and the rhetoric coming from the mouths of politicians who are determined to oppose anything and everything coming from the Obama administration regardless of the long-term damage they do along the way, what incentive do the Iranian leaders have to trust us? Yet, they have agreed to measures that Americans would never agree to. A large segment of the Iranian population would like to see normalized relations with the rest of the world. Most (or all) of the anti-American rhetoric is coming from the generation that personally suffered under the Shah, suffering they correctly blame the US for, but these people are elderly now and in 15 years, when the nuclear agreement ends, they will be gone from the stage. Speaking of "letting go", it's long past time the US let go of the Iranian hostage crisis, ideally acknowledge that there was good reason for the leaders of the Iranian Revolution to direct their anger to Americans (though Americans rarely ever admit any fault, and American politicians never do), and start to try to allow Iran to become what it was in 1953 before we screwed them up royally: a normal country with a democratic government and a vested interest in peaceful interactions with the rest of the world. Don Not surprised this post got completely ignored. Well said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #109 July 27, 2015 Quotebunch of GOP congressional leaders( I use that term very loosely) who are all butt hurt from the calls from their billionaires So all you have is a story about an "Israeli think tank" with a Republican donor in the Miami herald. Surely with a bunch of leaders out there butthurt you would have a plentiful bounty of reputable links. FAIL! Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #110 July 27, 2015 What happens after Khamenei dies is very much depends on who is in the assembly at the time of his death and what forces are in power in Tehran. The supreme leader is more powerful than the president. If the youth are even remotely interested in changing the face of Iran from the American hating old men to the youth who view the west as favorable as it has been suggested here by a few, they need to be in those positions when the time is right or it will just continue. BUT! even if they are the supreme leader can leave a will nominating a replacement who undoubtedly have his same views and continue with the same politics. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #111 July 27, 2015 >We gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America" No, we didn't. >and recently tweeted a picture of our president with a fucking GUN to his head..... Now he just needs to compare Obama to Hitler - and he'd fit right in here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #112 July 27, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuotebunch of GOP congressional leaders( I use that term very loosely) who are all butt hurt from the calls from their billionaires So all you have is a story about an "Israeli think tank" with a Republican donor in the Miami herald. Surely with a bunch of leaders out there butthurt you would have a plentiful bounty of reputable links. FAIL! Only in your Black and White Binary world where you will believe anything from your approved sources of information with ZERO ability to delve deeper into all the facets of what is driving all the ULTRA Right Wing Hysteria on this issue... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #113 July 27, 2015 QuoteWe gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America" No, we didn't. So are you saying the ~150 Billion in Iranian money tied up in international banks due to sanctions will not be given back to the Iranians due to the signing of this deal that the US negotiated? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #114 July 27, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuoteWe gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America" No, we didn't. So are you saying the ~150 Billion in Iranian money tied up in international banks due to sanctions will not be given back to the Iranians due to the signing of this deal that the US negotiated?It's not our money, we are not giving them anything. It is their money, which we and other signatories to the sanctions have blockaded. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #115 July 27, 2015 >So are you saying the ~150 Billion in Iranian money tied up in international banks due >to sanctions will not be given back to the Iranians due to the signing of this deal that >the US negotiated? I am saying that, contrary to your claim, we did not give 150 billion to a country whose supreme leader chants "death to America." Other countries (or companies) might do that, of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #116 July 27, 2015 Out of context "we gave iran 150 billion" Sounds like we gave our money to them In context posting in a 3 page thread about a deal made by Iran and the U.S. dealing with sanctions "we gave iran 150 billion in the deal". We all know what happened so how you say it is irrelevant and only word play if someone wants to argue with you. Sure it could have read we agreed to a deal which allowed 100-150 billion dollars in released sanctions to go back to Iran. But with all of us knowing what the other person is talking about its extra words for nothing. No one here doubts the money hell the government is even quoted on it. My bad for not remembering people will pick the obvious to start something over I will,be more clear and long winded the next time to avoid this. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #117 July 28, 2015 Given the extent to which you seem to have swallowed the "products" of the right-wing misinformation campaign, it was not at all obvious to me that you were aware we were talking about allowing Iran to eventually (after it is verified that they are complying with the agreement) gain access to their own money. If we follow the plan of never lifting the sanctions, or creating an endless stream of demands so that when they meet one we'll just come up with three more, what incentive would the Iranians have to curtail their nuclear program? Can you name one country that has completely capitulated to American (or Israeli) demands, reduced themselves to groveling, in response to sanctions? Just one country? How did that work out in Cuba? In the event of never-ending sanctions, Iran will have no reason to put aside ambitions to obtain nuclear weapons. Indeed, since the only remaining measure the US (at Israel's behest) would have left to increase pressure is war. As North Korea has demonstrated, having the bomb is pretty good insurance against being invaded, so rather perversely it would seem that refusal to consider lifting the sanctions would likely encourage the Iranians to work to get a bomb as soon as possible. Good plan, if you plan is to ensure Armageddon ASAP. You might also consider that there are many other parties to the agreement, besides the US. The US might try to go it alone regarding sanctions, but that risks the US isolating itself from its allies and trading partners around the world. Would Congress bar the rest of the world from doing business in the US, or using US currency in international business, unless they capitulate to our demands as well? Currently the US dollar is the currency of international banking and trade, but that is to some extent a matter of convenience and it could change if the US becomes too belligerent towards our allies and trading partners. We could risk becoming an economic backwater, cut off from the rest of the trading world, if we try to blackmail the rest of the world and they tell us to piss off. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #118 July 28, 2015 Well here is 8 times where sanctions worked for the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/04/28/13-times-that-economic-sanctions-really-worked/ The sanctions were crippling to Iran so this is Christmas, birthday, and the first day they had sex with a goat all rolled into one. They are getting 100 billion early on and more as the agreement progresses. You gave up your biggest barganing tool. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/04/iran-sanctions-consequences-list.html Snapback the only real punishment in the agreement will be prevented or slowed by Russia and China so it is not likely that the reimposition of sanctions will affect them until 5-10 year later at a gradual pace. You act like giving into to the bully will stop him from being a bully the next day. Well old Ayatollah Al sure showed us it was fuck you before the sanctions deals, and keep fucking yourselves after. You just allowed the bully to buy brass knuckles and know that you will give in to his demands if he huffs and puffs enough. Oh and I am not "right-wing" so you can keep the swallowing comments to yourself. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #119 July 28, 2015 >The sanctions were crippling to Iran so this is Christmas, birthday, and the first day >they had sex with a goat all rolled into one. Good! The Ayatollah just lost his biggest PR weapon over his people. >You act like giving into to the bully will stop him from being a bully the next day. And you think that taking food and clothing from the bully's family will cause him (and his family) to stop being such bullies; turn over a new leaf once you hurt his family enough? Let's reverse the roles. Let's say one day China gets strong enough to impose crippling sanctions on us. How much would China have to cripple you and your family before you stopped disliking them for it? What would work to reduce your negative view of China - more sanctions, or them lifting the sanctions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #120 July 28, 2015 That would make sense if the youth did not understand what was going on between US and Iran and the reasons for the sanctions. But they do, and view the US as favorable still. Read some blogs about people that went over there and discussed this with the youth. They understood they were battling the old ideology. I recently read one where the guy was basically swamped in a town square once he started speaking english by college age kids. After a while the police broke them up and as they ran away some them said they would follow him on Facebook. The seed is there I think the only people who are angered are the old men and the radicals and it is up to the youth to change this from within by getting the old men with the anti west views out. See my post above they need to step up now and be ready for his death or it is going to be the same old story until another old man dies that had the same views and actions. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #121 July 28, 2015 Amazon ***We gave 150 BILLION to a country whos supreme leader chants "death to America", says that this will change nothing between us an the "Arrogant Americans", and recently tweeted a picture of our president with a fucking GUN to his head..... The Obama administration admits that the money will be used to fund terrorist operations, and even Ali Khamenei himself said that the US views are 180 degrees different than Iran's then said "We will never stop supporting our friends in the region and the people of Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain and Lebanon. " Kerry stated it was very disturbing and that "I don't know how to interpret it at this point in time, except to take it at face value, that that's his policy," Appeasement is not going to work with these people. Giving them everything they wanted and 150 billion dollars they are still saying "fuck you" to everyone days after. Even if they do not make the bomb themselves it is already know that they have worked in the past with North Korea who is farther ahead in the areas of bomb delivery and gets support from China, and Russia. You go ahead and keep supporting this dumbass deal. I say everything should have stayed the same and not have just helped fund those fools and provoke war I DO NOT WANT! The Ayatollah must have been visiting Conservative pages on Facebook... that kind of tripe is there daily More Fear More of the Time... Sharia Law is coming to Louisiana... Was that sky falling or just bird duuukie.If you do not want WAR.. do not support those beating the drums of WAR... Ike said it 50+ years ago..... and no one seems to have listened about appeasing those who profit from WAR. Sorry, but in this case it's the Democrats that are fear mongering. If "It's either this deal or it's war" is not fear mongering, then I don't know what is. If you ask me, continued Isolation and sanctions is a perfectly good idea, and it's not the deal, and it's not war."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #122 July 28, 2015 GeorgiaDonQuote I know they are still pissed off about our relationship with their Shah back in the 1950's, but until they let go of their anger...Nice way to minimize the facts: 1. We (via the CIA) engineered a coup to overthrow their democratically elected government and install a dictator of our choosing (the Shah). [Look up "operation Ajax" if you don't believe me.] 2. We (via the CIA) trained the Shah's secret police, the SAVAK, in techniques of torture as well as infiltration of virtually all political activity opposed to the Shah; these tools SAVAK used to great effect to suppress political dissent. Along the way thousands of Iranians were imprisoned and tortured for years, or often just "disappeared". We also spent billions to keep the Shah's military and SAVAK well armed. By smothering the country's developing democracy and installing a dictator who had no scruples about the lengths he would go to, to protect his own power, we (unintentionally I'm sure) forced the marriage of political dissent with fundamentalist Islamic beliefs, by elevating exiled religious leaders such as the Ayatollah to the position of spokesmen for anti-Shah politics. That is a lot to "let go" of. Even so, we can provide a great example. Just look at how we let go of that whole Bay of Pigs fiasco. Or maybe not. Considering the history, and the rhetoric coming from the mouths of politicians who are determined to oppose anything and everything coming from the Obama administration regardless of the long-term damage they do along the way, what incentive do the Iranian leaders have to trust us? Yet, they have agreed to measures that Americans would never agree to. A large segment of the Iranian population would like to see normalized relations with the rest of the world. Most (or all) of the anti-American rhetoric is coming from the generation that personally suffered under the Shah, suffering they correctly blame the US for, but these people are elderly now and in 15 years, when the nuclear agreement ends, they will be gone from the stage. Speaking of "letting go", it's long past time the US let go of the Iranian hostage crisis, ideally acknowledge that there was good reason for the leaders of the Iranian Revolution to direct their anger to Americans (though Americans rarely ever admit any fault, and American politicians never do), and start to try to allow Iran to become what it was in 1953 before we screwed them up royally: a normal country with a democratic government and a vested interest in peaceful interactions with the rest of the world. Don Quit making excuses for them. They lost "victim status" a long time ago. I'm not denying the past, but they have engaged in a lot of bad since then. If we can overlook their support for terrorism, the thousands of American dead and 10's of thousands of American wounded by their hand in Iraq, along with the act of war against our Embassy in Tehran, then they can get over the 50's. We got over ours shit, now they can get over theirs."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #123 July 28, 2015 GeorgiaDonGiven the extent to which you seem to have swallowed the "products" of the right-wing misinformation campaign, it was not at all obvious to me that you were aware we were talking about allowing Iran to eventually (after it is verified that they are complying with the agreement) gain access to their own money. If we follow the plan of never lifting the sanctions, or creating an endless stream of demands so that when they meet one we'll just come up with three more, what incentive would the Iranians have to curtail their nuclear program? Can you name one country that has completely capitulated to American (or Israeli) demands, reduced themselves to groveling, in response to sanctions? Just one country? How did that work out in Cuba? In the event of never-ending sanctions, Iran will have no reason to put aside ambitions to obtain nuclear weapons. Indeed, since the only remaining measure the US (at Israel's behest) would have left to increase pressure is war. As North Korea has demonstrated, having the bomb is pretty good insurance against being invaded, so rather perversely it would seem that refusal to consider lifting the sanctions would likely encourage the Iranians to work to get a bomb as soon as possible. Good plan, if you plan is to ensure Armageddon ASAP. You might also consider that there are many other parties to the agreement, besides the US. The US might try to go it alone regarding sanctions, but that risks the US isolating itself from its allies and trading partners around the world. Would Congress bar the rest of the world from doing business in the US, or using US currency in international business, unless they capitulate to our demands as well? Currently the US dollar is the currency of international banking and trade, but that is to some extent a matter of convenience and it could change if the US becomes too belligerent towards our allies and trading partners. We could risk becoming an economic backwater, cut off from the rest of the trading world, if we try to blackmail the rest of the world and they tell us to piss off. Don Ever get the feeling that like the dipshit in Louisiana that shot two women... in his manifesto he supported anything that would be a failure for America... that the Fundies WANT as much strife and discord as possible to bring on "THE RAPTURE" to fulfill their wet dream of Biblical Prophecy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #124 July 28, 2015 AnvilbrotherHow did appeasement work out for Chamberlain? Hitler called them "worms" after the deal, then grew his military and resources to the point where avoiding war was impossible. The Ayatollah already chants death to America and a few days ago said nothing will change between Iran and the "arrogant" Americans. As we give him the reins and $150 billion dollars. Appeasement will fail here too. It's always, ALWAYS, good to go further into debt so we can give money to those that hate us. They giggle all the way to the bank, where they cash the check, spend a very very small percentage on their people and use the rest as the want. It's akin to the black couple down the street, taking out a loan, and donating the money to the KKK organization on the other side of the lake, just so they wouldn't buy ammo for their guns. Think it will work?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #125 July 28, 2015 QuoteI'm not denying the past...You have not written one word that admits what we did to them. Quote...but they have engaged in a lot of bad since then. Agreed QuoteIf we can overlook... We got over ours shit...As your posts, and others, make perfectly clear we have "gotten over" exactly nothing. Quote...the thousands of American dead and 10's of thousands of American wounded by their hand in Iraq...Interesting. So there was never any actual Iraqi insurgency, that was all Iranians. Got it. Quote...along with the act of war against our Embassy in Tehran..Which was in response to our earlier act of war against them. But I suppose they should have been grateful for being bent over and reamed, after all it was in a good cause (Western plundering of their oil). I know Iran is a bad actor in several ways, particularly in their support for Hamas. I just do not see how doubling down on the course of action that created modern Iran in the first place, that has failed to change their behavior, and that undermines a general pro-Western sentiment among the younger and educated population, is supposed to make anything better. IMO economic interaction is the best deterrent against war. Western Europe used to be a hot-bed of wars, but that is pretty much inconceivable these days because no-one could wage war without destroying their own economies. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
