47 People shot in chicago over the weekend. WHAT A SUPRISE!!!

[Anvilbrother 0]

Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jakee 1,257]

Anvilbrother

Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

He only said it did happen.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,625]

Anvilbrother

Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

SkyDekker

Quote

So what is it about there places? Any ideas? And don't go with the "guns" stuff because they are all over. Even in Chicago.

Further, the idea of a "free market" is supposed to prevent this. If a place is extremely violent, free market principles would dictate that people leave and go somewhere else, eventually leading to a decrease in violence.

Correct. The market isn't free. Far from it.

First, they are not getting educated. And have no choice but to go to school where the government tells them. The inequity is maintained

Second, they have no jobs. Or funding to start their own businesses. What is so often mentioned is the gang problem. Gangs owe most of their existence to black markets. Think about it. They make money off of drugs, guns, theft. That's how they get by. Free markets don't have black markets.

Third: they are provided with bare minimums for life. No education or job doesn't mean problems existing. They have public housing, etc.

No education. No money. No work. Meaning no opportunity to leave. And keep them that way. They will see all their opportunity come from those who have given them food stamps, a roof to stay in, health care. Lives lived out as existences. And hopes to make it to the NBA some day.

What was that psychology experiment done so long ago? Learned helplessness? There is a culture of learned helplessness. Many would be amazed at how many live their lives fully expecting to be dead by the time they are 25. That they are the kids of thugs, born and bred and trained to be thugs. How many prisoners were born to teenage parents. It's shockingly high.

I don't think this is a free market thing. I can see some semblance of it (gangs fighting over territory, etc) but a smaller piece of this puzzle.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

***Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

So what law should be passed to make the criminals be less criminal?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

turtlespeed

******Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

So what law should be passed to make the criminals be less criminal?

Here we go again..........

I hope you are not holding your breath until he answers!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,625]

turtlespeed

******Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

So what law should be passed to make the criminals be less criminal?

Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

******

Quote

You can call me a racist all you want but if look at the leading cause of death of black men in places like chicago you will see it's other black men. Shooting guns in one of the most gun restrictive states.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Hmmm...I thought black lives mattered.

I don't think they matter much to sheet wearin folk..... they have other people they like to hate on too.... Jews... Homo's.... Catholics.... Am I missing any groups???

Sure. How about hatin' on RePUBICans and conservatards?

You don't have a problem with hate. You just have problems with those who hate different targets from yours.

Pointing out that idiots are idiots does not equal hate..... I thought they taught you jurisprudence types that language actually matters.

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

*********Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

So what law should be passed to make the criminals be less criminal?

Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

You don't think they wouldn't just find some other criminal enterprise?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,625]

turtlespeed

************Because something happening and him saying its was because of that isn't proof that that is the reason for it happening, he is only showing that it DID happen.

Where is the proof that the lax gun laws are the reason for this is what is being asked. There a multitude of reasons for the increased shootings, and he is only suggesting one with no facts to show.

The police have stated the rise is due to the flow of illegal guns, and gangs fighting over drug turf.

If you look at the details, just about all the shootings are due to the turf wars between rival gangs over control of the drug trade. Unfortunately some collateral damage too (gang member's child shot, for example). However, these are not home invasions, muggings, domestic fights, bar-room brawls, etc.

I don't see these turf wars ending all the while the War on Drugs makes the wars profitable.

So what law should be passed to make the criminals be less criminal?

Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

You don't think they wouldn't just find some other criminal enterprise?

Yeah, they could become Wall St. bankers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Calling people idiots because you disagree with them is indicative of a problem that rests with the accuser. For example, do you ever disagree with someone and not hold some contempt for the person?

I disagree with everybody. I don't think they are idiots. Most are more intelligent than me. You are very intelligent. Problem is that the intelligence of many of your posts is overwhelmed by the hatred that comes from you.

It's why it's disappointing. There are so many good things you have to say. But instead you prefer to regard people as idiots and call them that. It's not a reflection of them. It's how it reflects on you.

Plenty of people on here? It's the best they can do. You? I think you're better than that. And you've got a lot more to offer.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wmw999 2,123]

Funny how if you make damn good and sure that only the really exceptional can get out, that the rest don't care about the system.

The only thing worse than the current welfare system is one where there isn't even that much, but the same lacks in education, opportunity, and infrastructure. Then an even smaller percentage would be able to escape their cycle.

I've had the opportunity to make and recover from plenty of unlucky, marginal, or bad decisions. When you're poor, you generally don't get that. Gotta be right every time.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,257]

turtlespeed

***Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

You don't think they wouldn't just find some other criminal enterprise?

What other criminal enterprise will provide the same reward and motivation?

People that are born in ghettos aren't inherently any more violent or criminal than people born in the suburbs. There's got to be a reason for the excessive criminality and what better reason than profit? The illegal drug trade provides most of the profit.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

>You don't think they wouldn't just find some other criminal enterprise?

They'd probably do what they knew best - sell drugs. (Which would then be legal.)

[regulator 0]

SkyDekker

*********A rise in incidents did not just occur this weekend, its a new trend for Chicago.

There is a 40% increase in shootings and 29% more homicides for the first part of this year.

Quote

The rate of unregistered or stolen guns recovered by Chicago police increased 22% in the first quarter of 2015 from the same period last year. Police have recovered more than 1,500 illegal guns this year, and first-quarter arrests for illegal gun possession increased 39%.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/01/chicago-murders-shootings/70787110/

So the gun restrictions were eliminated (2011) and concealed carry allowed (2014), and now there's a surge in shootings.

What a surprise.

If your going to make statements like this back it up with data Professor. Just how many of those shootings were buy LEGAL gun owners? How many by people with CCP's? You know TRUTH and FACTS those sticky little problems you have such a hard time with.

And lastly since I am betting ALL of these shutting's were done by criminals making every gun they had illegal what Law do you think can be passed to make criminals obey the law?

I will never in all of my days understand how a learned man such as yourself can be so oblivious to the obvious.

Why aren't you asking the OP for this?

The OP comes on and blames all these shootings on gun control.

Kallend retorts with actually regulations are less tough now, yet shootings went up.

Multiple people demand proof and data from Kallend.

Might just be a slight bias showing?

Reading comprehension: You needs it.

I made a statement that said gun control isn't about guns...its about control. There is absolutely no correlation from what I said to what happened.

Furthermore, the article I posted was from CNN. Just like you blindly having the back of any other liberal that wants to cry hypocrisy, it works both ways.

Would you like some aloe vera?

[regulator 0]

Amazon

*********

Quote

You can call me a racist all you want but if look at the leading cause of death of black men in places like chicago you will see it's other black men. Shooting guns in one of the most gun restrictive states.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Hmmm...I thought black lives mattered.

I don't think they matter much to sheet wearin folk..... they have other people they like to hate on too.... Jews... Homo's.... Catholics.... Am I missing any groups???

Sure. How about hatin' on RePUBICans and conservatards?

You don't have a problem with hate. You just have problems with those who hate different targets from yours.

Pointing out that idiots are idiots does not equal hate..... I thought they taught you jurisprudence types that language actually matters.

It sounds an awful lot like you are suffering from low T. Have you considered AndroGel?

[lawrocket 3]

jakee

******Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

You don't think they wouldn't just find some other criminal enterprise?

What other criminal enterprise will provide the same reward and motivation?

People that are born in ghettos aren't inherently any more violent or criminal than people born in the suburbs. There's got to be a reason for the excessive criminality and what better reason than profit? The illegal drug trade provides most of the profit.

There is much to be said about culture. Take a look at your area of the world. The Scotch-Irish. We had plenty of them come over across the pond. They took up much residence in the Anerican South. Appalachia. Etc. they were a culture of honor. Feuds and duels and stuff. We have a long history of them here. Those characteristics of culture that were brought with them regarding honor and destruction of those who disrespect are well established in the U.S.

That is a significant part of inner city cultures I've had exposure to, as well. People who are willing to throw down for the slightest perceived insult. Inadvertently bump into a guy while waiting in line at a corner market. Face a tirade as he has just been insulted? I'm sure you've come across the type if you've lived long enough.

Again, look to the American south. Feuds and disrespect were happening in counties with 10k people. It's relatively easy to keep a lid on it when the dude who made eyes at your wife loves five miles down the road with ten farms separating you.

Take that culture and put it in the inner city. High population density. Each with a culture of honor and a short fuse. The culture has adapted to it. In many ways it's an individual coping mechanism. Or societal. Gangs are a response to it. Stick together. We've got your back. Retribution and threat of it enforces good behavior and operates as a deterrent to bad conduct.

Any change has to be cultural. Problem is that cultural changes cannot be forced. It's like installing democracy in Iraq. Doesn't work like that. They need to install themselves.

The Hatfield-McCoy feud eventually ended. Let's hope that the future portends some positives. But I really do think that a culture of honor has much to to with it. And this type of culture does not have a racial component.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

regulator

************

Quote

You can call me a racist all you want but if look at the leading cause of death of black men in places like chicago you will see it's other black men. Shooting guns in one of the most gun restrictive states.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Hmmm...I thought black lives mattered.

I don't think they matter much to sheet wearin folk..... they have other people they like to hate on too.... Jews... Homo's.... Catholics.... Am I missing any groups???

Sure. How about hatin' on RePUBICans and conservatards?

You don't have a problem with hate. You just have problems with those who hate different targets from yours.

Pointing out that idiots are idiots does not equal hate..... I thought they taught you jurisprudence types that language actually matters.

It sounds an awful lot like you are suffering from low T. Have you considered AndroGel?


So much real anger ....................are you like this in your 3D life or just on here hiding behind your keyboard.

[lawrocket 3]

wmw999

Funny how if you make damn good and sure that only the really exceptional can get out, that the rest don't care about the system.

The only thing worse than the current welfare system is one where there isn't even that much, but the same lacks in education, opportunity, and infrastructure. Then an even smaller percentage would be able to escape their cycle.

I've had the opportunity to make and recover from plenty of unlucky, marginal, or bad decisions. When you're poor, you generally don't get that. Gotta be right every time.

Wendy P.

Very well said. Now, what about that system should be changed?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Croc 0]

kallend

Make the drug trade unprofitable by legalizing drugs. No profit, no motive for the turf wars. Would empty the prisons as a beneficial side effect.

Bingo. Ending Prohibition did not end organized crime, but it did end a great deal of the street violence and turf wars. Inner city (mostly) black violence is, as Lawrocket pointed out, a cultural problem. We can start by ending the War on Drugs, which was lost in the Seventies. The War on Drugs has been, almost entirely, The War on Black Males.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[brenthutch 384]

kallend

***A rise in incidents did not just occur this weekend, its a new trend for Chicago.

There is a 40% increase in shootings and 29% more homicides for the first part of this year.

Quote

The rate of unregistered or stolen guns recovered by Chicago police increased 22% in the first quarter of 2015 from the same period last year. Police have recovered more than 1,500 illegal guns this year, and first-quarter arrests for illegal gun possession increased 39%.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/01/chicago-murders-shootings/70787110/

So the gun restrictions were eliminated (2011) and concealed carry allowed (2014), and now there's a surge in shootings.

What a surprise.

The surge in shootings correlates with an increase in illegal guns. None of these murders have been committed by legal gun owners.

[kallend 1,625]

brenthutch

******A rise in incidents did not just occur this weekend, its a new trend for Chicago.

There is a 40% increase in shootings and 29% more homicides for the first part of this year.

Quote

The rate of unregistered or stolen guns recovered by Chicago police increased 22% in the first quarter of 2015 from the same period last year. Police have recovered more than 1,500 illegal guns this year, and first-quarter arrests for illegal gun possession increased 39%.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/01/chicago-murders-shootings/70787110/

So the gun restrictions were eliminated (2011) and concealed carry allowed (2014), and now there's a surge in shootings.

What a surprise.

The surge in shootings correlates with an increase in illegal guns. None of these murders have been committed by legal gun owners.

So what about the "good guy with a gun" theory? I guess that didn't work.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

*********A rise in incidents did not just occur this weekend, its a new trend for Chicago.

There is a 40% increase in shootings and 29% more homicides for the first part of this year.

Quote

The rate of unregistered or stolen guns recovered by Chicago police increased 22% in the first quarter of 2015 from the same period last year. Police have recovered more than 1,500 illegal guns this year, and first-quarter arrests for illegal gun possession increased 39%.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/01/chicago-murders-shootings/70787110/

So the gun restrictions were eliminated (2011) and concealed carry allowed (2014), and now there's a surge in shootings.

What a surprise.

The surge in shootings correlates with an increase in illegal guns. None of these murders have been committed by legal gun owners.

So what about the "good guy with a gun" theory? I guess that didn't work.

NBC news reported this weekend that the crime trends in Chicago have actually been going down since before 2011

So much for guns increase crime lies

Unless NBC is lieing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

NBC news reported this weekend that the crime trends in Chicago have actually been going down since before 2011

So much for guns increase crime lies

Unless NBC is lieing

So then what's the point of this thread?

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

NBC news reported this weekend that the crime trends in Chicago have actually been going down since before 2011

So much for guns increase crime lies

Unless NBC is lieing

So then what's the point of this thread?

That is a good point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln