What is so evil about requiring id to vote?

[airdvr 200]

Whether there is a requirement to prove your identity to vote is becoming a moot point. The percentage of those people receiving unearned gov't subsidies will increase to a point where they will overpower the system. Those receiving will never vote for someone who would take those subsidies away. And no candidate will ever suggest it.

I find it interesting that the bulk of the liberal minds here in SC pounced on you from the start to the point of ignoring other threads. Your arguments are clear and concise and you represent a huge threat. Well played sir.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

Good news here
Found on CNN

Quote

Appeals court reinstates Texas voter ID law


By Gabe LaMonica, CNN

updated 2:47 AM EDT, Wed October 15, 2014




STORY HIGHLIGHTS
The court says its decision hinged on timing
The law requires voters to present photo ID at the polls




(CNN) -- Less than a week before early voting begins in the state, a federal appeals court has said that Texas' controversial voter ID law can go into effect.

The enforcement order, issued Tuesday by a federal appeals court, comes days after a district court judge struck down the law.

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals effectively puts a stay on the district court's ruling. It said its decision hinged on timing.

The ruling, it said, was "based primarily on the extremely fast-approaching election date."

"The Supreme Court has repeatedly instructed courts to consider the importance of preserving the status quo on the eve of an election."

The voter ID law in place requires that voters present photographic identification at the polls

The first day of early voting in Texas is Monday, October 20.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

The fact is businesses still use them, and banks require ID to cash checks due to fraud period.

Banks do not require ID to deposit a check.

I've used my ID three times in the last month, all because I went on vacation. Twice at the airport, to and from, and once to check into a hotel. If I hadn't gone on vacation, I would not have needed ID at all.

Otherwise, that thing stays in my wallet.

And more importantly, absentee ballots, which are the actual fraud your much quoted study talks about, would not be affected by voter ID laws.

- Dan G

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

Banks do not require ID to deposit a check

Ever cashed a check?

Quote

would not be affected by voter ID laws.

Everyone is hung on the ID law part. The ID law part goes hand in hand with registration thats what the ID is for to cross reference proven registered voters with the person who is on scene at the voting booth.

I will quote you the first line of this thread.....

Quote

Why in the hell do people have an issue with a requirement to have an ID, and be registered to vote?

[jakee 1,274]

Quote

Ever cashed a check?

As in exchanged it for folding money? No.

Point being?

Quote

Quote

And more importantly, absentee ballots, which are the actual fraud your much quoted study talks about, would not be affected by voter ID laws.

Everyone is hung on the ID law part. The ID law part goes hand in hand with registration thats what the ID is for to cross reference proven registered voters with the person who is on scene at the voting booth.

Absentee ballots are not present at the voting booth. That's the definition of absent.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I find it interesting that the bulk of the liberal minds here in SC pounced on you from the start to the point of ignoring other threads. Your arguments are clear and concise and you represent a huge threat. Well played sir.

My god, we're neglecting other threads!!
Duty calls, and there's work to be done.

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

As in exchanged it for folding money? No.

Point being?

Im gonna call bullshit. And IF your telling the truth, shit must be real different over there.

I cash a check a couple times a month from my part time job, as well as the other firefighters at my station here who have part time jobs doing electrical work, cutting residental grass, general house repair, dirt work with dump trucks, and dozers. You think all those people they do work for set up one time electronic direct payments for a one time job to pay all these guys?? No its with CHECKS!

Quote

Absentee ballots are not present at the voting booth. That's the definition of absent.

I was not addressing his absentee ballot argument I was addressing his argument at ID itself does not work, which I agree with, it needs to be paired with registration.

If you want to go that route we can. You still need to be registered and show ID for absentee voting at least in my state, so yes it would still apply.

[jakee 1,274]

Quote

You think all those people they do work for set up one time electronic direct payments for a one time job to pay all these guys?? No its with CHECKS!

Again, if you mean exchange a check for folding money, then no. Deposit a check, yes. But then you don't need ID for that. You don't even need to be you.

Quote

I was not addressing his absentee ballot argument I was addressing his argument at ID itself does not work, which I agree with, it needs to be paired with registration.

But the statement was about absentee voting. Snipping the absentee part and responding as if he was talking about polling stations is called setting up a strawman.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

Again, if you mean exchange a check for folding money, then no. Deposit a check, yes. But then you don't need ID for that. You don't even need to be you.

You have said that over and over again, and although technically true, it does not mean jack....People still have a need to get cash right then and there.

Further to open a bank account in the first place if you "were" going to deposit that check, you have to have an ID to open that bank account at most banks.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/goals-going-to-college/first-account/

Quote

Checking account: A checking account can be opened individually or jointly, and you’ll need your basic information, Social Security number, driver’s license, and a minimum opening deposit amount. The account can usually be linked to a debit card – giving you quick access to cash – and can be managed online, as well as at ATMs. Wells Fargo also has a unique service for cardholders called Card Design Studio® service, where you can insert your favorite image to appear on your Wells Fargo Credit Card.1

https://secureapps.regions.com/oao/app01.aspx?type=lifegreenchk

Quote

What you need to apply online:

Social Security Number
Date of Birth
Email Address
Personal Identification (driver's license or state issued ID)
Identification number
Expiration Date
Funding Account information (one from below):
A Credit/Debit card
A Regions Checking/Savings Account
Checking/Savings Account you own from another bank

Quote

But the statement was about absentee voting. Snipping the absentee part and responding as if he was talking about polling stations is called setting up a strawman.

I wasn't trying to set up a strawman, just redirecting back to the main topic that we need ID and registration for the entire voting process no matter the medthod a person is voting.

[jakee 1,274]

cvfd1399

Quote

Again, if you mean exchange a check for folding money, then no. Deposit a check, yes. But then you don't need ID for that. You don't even need to be you.

You have said that over and over again

I said it twice. First time because you asked, second time because you questioned the answer. If you don't like the answers, why ask the questions?

Quote

you have to have an ID to open that bank account at most banks.

So you are saying that it is possible to open a bank account without ID?

How does that feed back to your point?

Quote

I wasn't trying to set up a strawman, just redirecting back to the main topic that we need ID and registration for the entire voting process no matter the medthod a person is voting.

Except that you specified voting in person.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

So you are saying that it is possible to open a bank account without ID? How does that feed back to your point?

Sure its possible. I linked the two banks in my town that are with in walking/biking distance of most homes. I guess your non ID having low income/elderly voter that you are setting up this argument for could drive into town whenever he need to visit a bank that will allow you to open an account without ID, but that invalidates the lefts argument about being non mobile enough to go get an ID in the first place doesnt it.

Quote

Except that you specified voting in person.

Not sure how you manage to vote in cyberspace where you live, but you can...VOTE IN PERSON at the registrars office

Quote

The registrars of voters will open their offices from 8:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. for each day of early voting. When you go to cast your vote early, you will be asked to identify yourself with either a photo ID or signature on a voter affidavit. You may use a driver's license, a Louisiana special ID or some other generally recognized picture ID that has your name and signature. You may wish to contact your local registrar of voters office for specific locations, dates and times.

Or you can VOTE IN PERSON on election day at the polls

Im done nit picking this with you. You have not brought up a valid argument.

[muff528 3]

jakee

Quote

Ever cashed a check?

As in exchanged it for folding money? No.

Point being?....

These folks (the ones who "ostensibly" don't have any IDs or driver licenses and who live many miles from a DMV) probably also have trouble getting to their bank to cash or deposit a check. Most probably don't even have a bank account.

Just a personal observation ...Convenience stores around my neighborhood are making a killing cashing checks and charging what looks like 3-4% right off the top. Might even be more. These folks, BTW, do produce IDs when they get their checks cashed.

[jakee 1,274]

Quote

I guess your non ID having low income/elderly voter that you are setting up this argument for...

I'm not setting up this argument, you are. This whole banking thing is your tangent. So far, you've succeeded in establishing that you don't need ID to get your banking done. Well played.

Quote

but you can...VOTE IN PERSON at the registrars office

Sure you can. Or you can do something else. Like (source; la.gov) VOTE BY MAIL.

Quote

Or you can VOTE IN PERSON on election day at the polls

Im done nit picking this with you. You have not brought up a valid argument.

No one's saying you can't VOTE IN PERSON. You seem to be arguing that you are unable to vote NOT IN PERSON, as justification for ignoring the absentee ballot argument.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

I'm not setting up this argument, you are. This whole banking thing is your tangent. So far, you've succeeded in establishing that you don't need ID to get your banking done. Well played.

The left have established that argument well on in this thread which is your intent in replying to me about it so it is your argument stop ducking.
I CLEARLYestablished that most banks require ID, just because I stated you can find that odd bank that allows you to open one without ID does not mean .

Quote

So far, you've succeeded in establishing that you don't need ID to get your banking done. Well played.

Your clearly reaching for anything you can.

Quote

Sure you can. Or you can do something else. Like (source; la.gov) VOTE BY MAIL.

You just cannot vote by mail because you feel like doing so out of convenience.

Quote

Who can vote by mail?
If you registered to vote by mail and you have not previously voted in the parish, you must vote in person the first time either during early voting, or on election day, unless an exception applies.

Exceptions include:
1) military or overseas citizens;
2) persons in the Senior Citizen or Disability Program;
3) students, who submit a copy of student ID or fee bill with the request;
4) citizens who appear in the registrar of voters office before the election to verify identity; and
5) participants in the state's address confidentiality program.

In Louisiana you must have a reason to be eligible to vote by mail, unless you are a military or overseas citizen. There are specific reasons to vote by mail.

What is the reason for this absentee ballot request (select one): *
Senior Citizen
I am 65 years of age or older.
Disabled/Homebound/Nursing Home**
I have been previously approved in the Disability Program, or I am disabled, homebound, or live in a nursing home.
I am a member of the United States Service, or a spouse or dependent thereof, living in the United States
I am a member of the United States Service, or a spouse or dependent thereof, living overseas
I am residing outside of the United States
Other

** I understand that by making this selection, I will not be able to submit my request for an absentee ballot online. At the end of this process, I will need to print and mail the absentee request form and I will also submit current proof of disability to the Registrar of Voters of either:

(a) A copy of a current mobility impaired identification card issued by the Office of Motor Vehicles

(b) A copy of documentation showing eligibility for Social Security disability benefits, veteran’s disability benefits, paratransit services, benefits from the office for citizens with developmental disabilities, or benefits from Louisiana Rehabilitation Services, or

(c) Physician’s letter certifying my disability

I will also enclose a copy of either my LA driver’s license, LA special ID card, other generally recognized photo ID that contains my name and signature

I dont even remember what your point about this is anymore which I think is your point in all of this... please clarify.

[okalb 79]

From ’88 to ’92 I lived in Miami with no ID whatsoever. I had moved down from NYC where there was no reason to drive. Most of my friends growing up had no driver’s license. I worked in the restaurant industry at the time and most of my salary came in the form of tips. What I did receive in a paycheck was cashed right at the bar for us as soon as we were handed the check. I didn’t own a car, didn’t really have any need for a bank account and paid cash for the apartment that I lived in. I spent my days on the beach and my nights in the restaurants and bars. I lived like that for 4 years. When I finally decided to get a DL it was a nightmare. I was not born in the US so I did not have a birth certificate, I was born to American parents so I originally had a passport but that was long since expired and not accepted as proof of anything. It took me a total of about 3 months of running around from govt agency to govt agency and fighting with everyone that I could to try and get ID. I finally ended up going to the police dept and after a whole lot of hassle they fingerprinted me, ran a background check and issued me a “Police ID”. With that I was then able to get a new passport and then get a DL. Again, that took months, cost me a bunch of money and a whole lot of hassle. This is not some story that I heard from a friend, this is my actual story. Almost all the people that I knew and worked with at the time had very similar stories. Most of us just didn’t have or need ID and it wasn’t worth the trouble to get it.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

The question is how much money and effort should get spent on it.

If there is 0.004% voter fraud. Should the government spend $100,000 to combat that? What about $1,000,000,000? Any amount to bring it to 0?

hey, look how fiscally conservative you've become. how convenient

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,673]

rushmc

*********Judge Posner didn't make the claim that voter ID laws are grounded in racism and bigotry. That was my take from the article. You've already expressed your disdain for the author of the article, so feel free to disregard that.

If you look at page 18 of Posner's opinion, he explains that these laws are passed in conservative states with the goal of suppressing voters who tend to lean democratic. He also states that more liberal states try to make it easier for the poor and minorities to vote. (That's a long way from encouraging voter fraud.) Politics as usual. The problem is, there is an asymmetrical effect, because there is very little voter fraud, and voter ID laws suppress large numbers of voters. The net effect, Posner explains, is that voters who tend to vote democratic are impeded from voting. On page 28, he explains that in the absence of actual voter fraud, the only plausible explanation for voter ID laws is that they are intended to suppress the vote of people likely to vote against those people imposing the laws. So, like I said, Posner didn't make the claim that these laws were motivated by racism. That was my take on the article. My apologies for misleading you.

You still haven't provided any evidence that democrats are supporting voter fraud.

This was taken directly from the LA Times article (and was included in the paragraph you referenced in your original post:

More specifically, he observes, photo ID laws are "highly correlated with a state's having a Republican governor and Republican control of the legislature and appear to be aimed at limiting voting by minorities, particularly blacks."

And this from the opinion itself:

"...and appear to be aimed at limiting voting by minorities, particularly blacks."

Sounds to me like prejudicial charges of racism and bigotry by Judge Posner.



Sounds to me like telling it like it is.

From your political perspective I suppose

The perspective is from a conservative judge appointed by a conservative president. He also happens to be honest.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

From ’88 to ’92 I lived in Miami with no ID whatsoever. I had moved down from NYC where there was no reason to drive. Most of my friends growing up had no driver’s license. I worked in the restaurant industry at the time and most of my salary came in the form of tips. What I did receive in a paycheck was cashed right at the bar for us as soon as we were handed the check. I didn’t own a car, didn’t really have any need for a bank account and paid cash for the apartment that I lived in. I spent my days on the beach and my nights in the restaurants and bars. I lived like that for 4 years. When I finally decided to get a DL it was a nightmare. I was not born in the US so I did not have a birth certificate, I was born to American parents so I originally had a passport but that was long since expired and not accepted as proof of anything. It took me a total of about 3 months of running around from govt agency to govt agency and fighting with everyone that I could to try and get ID. I finally ended up going to the police dept and after a whole lot of hassle they fingerprinted me, ran a background check and issued me a “Police ID”. With that I was then able to get a new passport and then get a DL. Again, that took months, cost me a bunch of money and a whole lot of hassle. This is not some story that I heard from a friend, this is my actual story. Almost all the people that I knew and worked with at the time had very similar stories. Most of us just didn’t have or need ID and it wasn’t worth the trouble to get it.

How were you able to become a citizen I am unfamiliar with the different processes, and outcomes?

[champu 1]

cvfd1399

The left...

Really dude, "the left?" Your problem here isn't "the left." I've been arguing both sides of this because I think most people in this thread are being at least a little absurd. Some quite intentionally.

One major problem in a lot of your "ID should be no issue..." examples is you're forgetting there's a lot of inertia in the system. Just because someone doesn't have ID doesn't mean they never had ID. I've been registered to vote, employed, housed, and have had bank accounts in California for over a decade. In the last decade I've renewed my driver's license twice (online, mind you) and I've used ID for those above things one time (I bought a house, which is pretty easy to not do.)

I'm not someone who jumps through hoops to use ID as infrequently as possible (in fact, as I wrote earlier I use it all the time) and I think the people trying to convince you that theoretically you too could get by without ID are going about the argument all wrong, but it really shouldn't be that confounding that some people don't have ID.

okalb

From ’88 to ’92 I lived in Miami with no ID whatsoever...

While it is your story, as you say, it is 22 years old, and it took place in Miami in the 80s. That's not exactly a heavy ink and paper kind of environment.

[okalb 79]

cvfd1399

How were you able to become a citizen I am unfamiliar with the different processes, and outcomes?

My parents are American, I just happened to be born in another country. I was born a US citizen and got a passport when I was 1 year old.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[okalb 79]

champu

While it is your story, as you say, it is 22 years old, and it took place in Miami in the 80s. That's not exactly a heavy ink and paper kind of environment.

Agreed, I was just giving an example of how you can live without ID. I did it for 4 years. Yes, it was a long time ago but from the perspective of my story, nothing has changed. You could very easily live the same way today and I am sure many do.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[jakee 1,274]

Quote

The left have established that argument well on in this thread which is your intent in replying to me about it so it is your argument stop ducking.

The key word there is 'replying'. In post #266 you decided to prove that everyone must have ID anyway because they need it for banking and stuff. It is your argument, you brought it up, I'm responding to you. Not the other way round.

Quote

Quote

I CLEARLYestablished that most banks require ID, just because I stated you can find that odd bank that allows you to open one without ID does not mean .

So far, you've succeeded in establishing that you don't need ID to get your banking done. Well played.

Unless you can change the 'most' to 'all' that is exactly what it means. How could it not be?

Quote

You just cannot vote by mail because you feel like doing so out of convenience.

So?

Quote

I dont even remember what your point about this is anymore

I only simply pointed out that you replied to a post specifically about absentee voting with an answer specifically about voting in person. As far as I can tell you then tried to show that absentee voting still meant voting in person, just at a different time and place. I don't know why you thought you needed to do that.

Oh, and by the way " OR a letter where I have listed the names and addresses of 2 persons residing in my precinct who can make oath, if required, to the effect that I am physically disabled"

I have no idea why you would have snipped that off the bottom of your quote?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[cvfd1399 0]

Right, so did that automatically make you a US citizen because they were American and you were born overseas and your explaining why you do not have a birth certificate, or even though they were American when you were born overseas you had to get some green card?

I fail to see what the passport is all about other than to get you back into the US.

Quote

A passport is a travel document, usually issued by the government of a nation, that certifies the identity and nationality of its holder for the purpose of international travel.[wikipedia]

According to this page you should have gotten something that is another form of birth certificate which would have helped you get ID, but your problem is very much an extenuating circumstance that is not being faced by the alleged 11% although I recognize your troubles.
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

[wmw999 2,167]

If you're born anywhere to American citizen parents, you are automatically a US citizen. To return to the US, you need a passport, even as a baby. When I was a kid, we travelled, and my brothers and I shared a passport with my mother. That changed as soon as she had to travel on her own .

Getting documents from another country might not be as easy as getting them from the US; particularly if one was born at home, like happens with people who live outside of cities in some third-world countries. Not saying that okalb was, just saying that it happens that way sometimes.

What he's saying is that if he could let all of his ID lapse because he didn't need it, it's not that hard to imagine that someone else, particularly living a somewhat hand-to-mouth lifestyle, also could let all of their ID lapse. And not have the certificated copy of their birth certificate, or whatever.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,150]

rehmwa

***The question is how much money and effort should get spent on it.

If there is 0.004% voter fraud. Should the government spend $100,000 to combat that? What about $1,000,000,000? Any amount to bring it to 0?

hey, look how fiscally conservative you've become. how convenient

So you have no answer?