What is so evil about requiring id to vote?

[jcd11235 0]

regulator

Last time I checked you don't have to even have a drivers license in Texas to have an Id. If someone can't provide even that much identification they don't deserve to vote. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

***Last time I checked you don't have to even have a drivers license in Texas to have an Id. If someone can't provide even that much identification they don't deserve to vote. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

No one here is

I have the right to carry a gun
Why do I have to have an ID to exersize that right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

cvfd1399

So why are you not in outrage that an undue hardship of providing an id to obtain an instrument guaranteed by constitutional right is being placed upon Americans? Ooh thats right its because you are scared of one, and the other is a tool to provide votes for your party.

Voting is free, and poll taxes are expressly forbidden by the Constitution. Requiring a picture ID amounts to a poll tax, even though, for most people, the expense of an ID isn't very high. Further, voter fraud isn't currently problematic, and the small number of cases of voter fraud that we do experience would not have been prevented with an ID requirement.

Guns are not free; they're pricey. By comparison, the cost of an ID is insignificant, so requiring one for a gun purchase does not place an undue burden on the purchaser. And the ID requirements, couple with background checks, have prevented many people from illegally purchasing guns.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

So are you ok with the oppressive ID requirements to exercise the rights detailed in the second Amendment to the Constitution?

[kallend 1,653]

cvfd1399

Quote

Well, unless you're talking about a private sale (regardless of the venue), or actually shooting the weapon (it hasn't required ID when I've gone to the range if I remember rightly). Surely shooting the gun is part of the enjoyment.

To buy a firearm at anywhere other than the back of a pickup truck you must fill out a federal form 4473 which requires ID.

Maybe set up polling stations in the back of pickup trucks to solve the "ID required" problem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,653]

cvfd1399

Quote

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

So are you ok with the oppressive ID requirements to exercise the rights detailed in the second Amendment to the Constitution?

If they were oppressive the Supreme Court wouldn't have allowed them.

Last time I checked there were some 300,000 guns added to the "illegal guns" numbers every year. Some 30+ Americans are murdered by criminals with guns every day. Compared with a tiny handful of voter fraud cases, it seems you have your priorities wrong.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

So why are you not in outrage that an undue hardship of providing an id to obtain an instrument guaranteed by constitutional right is being placed upon Americans? Ooh thats right its because you are scared of one, and the other is a tool to provide votes for your party.

Voting is free, and poll taxes are expressly forbidden by the Constitution. Requiring a picture ID amounts to a poll tax, even though, for most people, the expense of an ID isn't very high. Further, voter fraud isn't currently problematic, and the small number of cases of voter fraud that we do experience would not have been prevented with an ID requirement.

Guns are not free; they're pricey. By comparison, the cost of an ID is insignificant, so requiring one for a gun purchase does not place an undue burden on the purchaser. And the ID requirements, couple with background checks, have prevented many people from illegally purchasing guns.

Grandfather dies, you transfer the gun to your name or other family members for free, or $1. Still requires ID

Your statement is pure hypocrisy. Require id for one constitutionally protected right, but not another...Got it.

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

Last time I checked there were some 300,000 guns added to the "illegal guns" numbers every year. Some 30+ Americans are murdered by criminals with guns every day. Compared with a tiny handful of voter fraud cases, it seems you have your priorities wrong.

You can have that argument in another thread.
It does not pertain to the argument you have brought up in that there should not be an ID requirement for a constitutionally protected right. I brought up one that does require ID, and you cannot provide any reply other than changing the subject.

[jcd11235 0]

rushmc

***Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

No one here is

Have you asked them all? More people than you think lack such an ID.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 1,653]

cvfd1399

Quote

Last time I checked there were some 300,000 guns added to the "illegal guns" numbers every year. Some 30+ Americans are murdered by criminals with guns every day. Compared with a tiny handful of voter fraud cases, it seems you have your priorities wrong.

You can have that argument in another thread.
It does not pertain to the argument you have brought up in that there should not be an ID requirement for a constitutionally protected right. I brought up one that does require ID, and you cannot provide any reply other than changing the subject.

YOU brought up guns. I don't have to justify continuing the discussion and providing reasons. The Supreme court, not Anvil, is the arbiter of the constitutionality of legislation.

The Supreme Court stated unambiguously that the right to keep and bear arms is NOT unlimited. Therefore it isn't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

jcd11235

******Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

No one here is

Have you asked them all? More people than you think lack such an ID.

So they are denied thier right to carry a gun then (in most states), right?

but you are ok with that........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[regulator 0]

GeorgiaDon

***Last time I checked you don't have to even have a drivers license in Texas to have an Id. If someone can't provide even that much identification they don't deserve to vote. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Last time I checked you don't have to even have to prove you can hit the broad side of a barn door to buy a gun in Georgia. If someone can't prove even that much proficiency they don't deserve to own a gun. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?


Makes perfect sense to me.

Here's why.

1.) I don't live in Georgia
2.) my proficiency with firearms far exceeds your requirements laid out in your post.




Don

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***

Quote

Last time I checked there were some 300,000 guns added to the "illegal guns" numbers every year. Some 30+ Americans are murdered by criminals with guns every day. Compared with a tiny handful of voter fraud cases, it seems you have your priorities wrong.

You can have that argument in another thread.
It does not pertain to the argument you have brought up in that there should not be an ID requirement for a constitutionally protected right. I brought up one that does require ID, and you cannot provide any reply other than changing the subject.

YOU brought up guns. I don't have to justify continuing the discussion and providing reasons. The Supreme court, not Anvil, is the arbiter of the constitutionality of legislation.

The Supreme Court stated unambiguously that the right to keep and bear arms is NOT unlimited. Therefore it isn't.

They have also stated that it is a right to keep and carry arms
So, in many states, becasue they do not have an ID, they are being denied their rights

How is this any different?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 340]

cvfd1399

Quote

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

So are you ok with the oppressive ID requirements to exercise the rights detailed in the second Amendment to the Constitution?

In my experience second amendment rights apply only to US citizens. Even as a permanent resident I was not allowed to purchase a gun.

In order to purchase a gun, it is not unreasonable to ask that the would-be purchaser show that they are legally entitled to do so, and that would necessarily involve showing a form of ID that indicates citizenship. However, there should not be (and there is not) a legal requirement that you show your ID to someone each and every time you fire that gun.

Similarly, there is a requirement that people be able to prove citizenship before being allowed to register to vote. However, once they have registered they should not have to keep proving they are entitled to the right every time they vote in that district (just as you don't legally have to show ID to fire your gun).

If someone moves to a new district and has to register there to vote, they will again have to prove they meet the qualifications (US citizen, live in the district). Similarly, if you purchase another gun you will have to prove you meet the qualifications.

Note that using guns may be confounded with private property rights in a way that voting is not. An owner of a firing range may, at their discretion, as for ID before letting you use the range. The constitution restricts the government in what it may do, not private interests. If you voluntarily sign a contract that limits your ability to speak to the press, for example, you cannot later leak information to the newspaper and then claim first amendment protection. You really can't compare ID requirements for private business transactions with voting rights.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[cvfd1399 0]

Negative I brought up another constitutionally protected right that in order to exercise has ID requirements. You chose to divert the topic by starting to talk about illegal guns and deaths, a different topic.

Ill go ahead and put you down for one order of hypocrisy

Kallend -ID, it's not good for voting but its good for guns.

[jcd11235 0]

cvfd1399

Negative I brought up another constitutionally protected right that in order to exercise has ID requirements. You chose to divert the topic by starting to talk about illegal guns and deaths, a different topic.

It's not a different topic at all. It's analogous to the voter fraud you are so afraid of, with one small difference: it's actually real.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Andy9o8 0]

cvfd1399

Negative I brought up another constitutionally protected right that in order to exercise has ID requirements. You chose to divert the topic by starting to talk about illegal guns and deaths, a different topic.

Guns, guns, guns.

OK, now tell us which of these Constitutional rights routinely require a photo ID to exercise:

religion,
speech,
press,
assembly,
to petition the government for redress,
speedy, public jury trial in criminal cases,
public jury trial to adjudicate civil lawsuits

[GeorgiaDon 340]

regulator

******Last time I checked you don't have to even have a drivers license in Texas to have an Id. If someone can't provide even that much identification they don't deserve to vote. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Last time I checked you don't have to even have to prove you can hit the broad side of a barn door to buy a gun in Georgia. If someone can't prove even that much proficiency they don't deserve to own a gun. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?


Makes perfect sense to me.

Here's why.

1.) I don't live in Georgia
2.) my proficiency with firearms far exceeds your requirements laid out in your post.




DonWhooosh!!

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

***Negative I brought up another constitutionally protected right that in order to exercise has ID requirements. You chose to divert the topic by starting to talk about illegal guns and deaths, a different topic.

Guns, guns, guns.

OK, now tell us which of these Constitutional rights routinely require a photo ID to exercise:

religion,
speech,
press,
assembly,
to petition the government for redress,
speedy, public jury trial in criminal cases,
public jury trial to adjudicate civil lawsuits

and, the entirety of all the unlisted rights that are implicitly ours

this is great - if we approach the innocent until proven guilty and the idea that people are responsible and make their own choices, then it's clear that as a society we are willing to take the risk of abuse by some to ensure our rights to the rest of us is unencumbered. This is very much a position of individualism, not social collective philosophy, nicely libertarian really.

I agree - Gun ownerships is very severely over restricted and needs parity to the other rights. SC has failed to protect that right.

You just turned me around on voter ID. But, to NOT be a hypocrit, we do need to be consistent with all our rights. Clearly gun (private property) ownership is abused and not consistent. For voting and all the others, we don't pre-screen voters (gun owners, speech, etc) , but we do need to catch illegal voters (etc) in the act and very severely take that crime seriously.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[airdvr 200]

GeorgiaDon

Even as a permanent resident I was not allowed to purchase a gun.

So you aren't actually a citizen of the US?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

we do need to catch illegal voters (etc) in the act and very severely take that crime seriously.

Yeppers. Lets tar n feather em, cuz, you know, there's an epidemic of it. It's like Ebola.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

It's like Ebola.

And as I'm sure you know, the "bo" in Ebola is shorthand for its evil creator, Barack Obama, which is why Ebola is so nasty. Kill all the Christians, and let all the illegal immigrants vote: two sides of the same despicable plan. However, I don't understand why is isn't Ebhola; though perhaps that would have been a little too obvious.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[SkyDekker 1,150]

rushmc

******Last time I checked you don't have to even have a drivers license in Texas to have an Id. If someone can't provide even that much identification they don't deserve to vote. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Many people can get through life just fine without a picture ID. Why are you opposed to following the Constitution, which guarantees their right to vote?

No one here is

I have the right to carry a gun
Why do I have to have an ID to exersize that right?

Do you need ID to keep and bear arms?

Or do you need ID to buy one? Last time I read that 2nd amendment I don't remember reading anything about a right to buy them without ID.

[SkyDekker 1,150]

Anvilbrother

Why in the hell do people have an issue with a requirement to have an ID, and be registered to vote?

Those who want to vote illegally will find a way to vote illegally anyways.

All you are doing is making it more difficult for law abiding citizens to vote.

IDs don't vote, people vote.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

airdvr

*** Even as a permanent resident I was not allowed to purchase a gun.

So you aren't actually a citizen of the US?I've been a citizen for six years now. I was a permanent resident for seven years before that; I applied for citizenship as soon as I was eligible.

You have a problem with that?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)