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kallend

Gun for home defense

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I figured we were talking about a gun bought to be used for violence. No smart criminal is going to go and meet face to face with someone off craigslist and buy a gun that they can be traced back to them. I was talking unregistered, stolen, serial number files off type of weapon.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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kelpdiver


If Stumpy had said, 'in 33 states, private sales and gun show sales allow every single one of those conditions to be ignored,' I'd have no answer. It's true.



What - like this?

Quote

(Caveat - for most states)



You can argue semantics all day (apologies I didn't structure my sentences the way you require),but you are still wrong.
Never try to eat more than you can lift

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hackish

While I don't discount that bad things do happen to good people history hasn't shown the high percentage of gun ownership to be effective in the prevention of crime.



Prevention or defense?

In areas with less gun restrictions and/or a higher percentage of gun owners, criminals have to consider whether or not their potential victims are armed which in itself is a deterrent.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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.300 Blackout SBR with light and laser. Suppressed with subsonic ammo. Don't want to disturb the neighbors.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

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Bolas

***While I don't discount that bad things do happen to good people history hasn't shown the high percentage of gun ownership to be effective in the prevention of crime.



Prevention or defense?

In areas with less gun restrictions and/or a higher percentage of gun owners, criminals have to consider whether or not their potential victims are armed which in itself is a deterrent.

The general public thinks that it would be a deterrent but the actual statistics do not agree. Something I like about published academic research is that findings have to be backed up by statistics and unfortunately most of what you read on the internet is invented opinions.

The only thing I might be interested in using a firearm for is if this zombie apocalypse starts but the chance of that is probably higher than a home invasion anyway.

-Michael

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hackish

******While I don't discount that bad things do happen to good people history hasn't shown the high percentage of gun ownership to be effective in the prevention of crime.



Prevention or defense?

In areas with less gun restrictions and/or a higher percentage of gun owners, criminals have to consider whether or not their potential victims are armed which in itself is a deterrent.

The general public thinks that it would be a deterrent but the actual statistics do not agree. Something I like about published academic research is that findings have to be backed up by statistics and unfortunately most of what you read on the internet is invented opinions.

The only thing I might be interested in using a firearm for is if this zombie apocalypse starts but the chance of that is probably higher than a home invasion anyway.

-Michael

How many mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones vs. standard areas?

One doesn't have to use or even own a firearm to benefit from them. Criminals like easy targets. Concealed carry and people owning guns make it harder for them to identify.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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Bolas

*********While I don't discount that bad things do happen to good people history hasn't shown the high percentage of gun ownership to be effective in the prevention of crime.



Prevention or defense?

In areas with less gun restrictions and/or a higher percentage of gun owners, criminals have to consider whether or not their potential victims are armed which in itself is a deterrent.

The general public thinks that it would be a deterrent but the actual statistics do not agree. Something I like about published academic research is that findings have to be backed up by statistics and unfortunately most of what you read on the internet is invented opinions.

The only thing I might be interested in using a firearm for is if this zombie apocalypse starts but the chance of that is probably higher than a home invasion anyway.

-Michael

How many mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones vs. standard areas?

One doesn't have to use or even own a firearm to benefit from them. Criminals like easy targets. Concealed carry and people owning guns make it harder for them to identify.

An American is significantly more likely to be shot by a friend or family member than by an intruder.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Bolas

How many mass shootings occur in "gun free" zones vs. standard areas?

One doesn't have to use or even own a firearm to benefit from them. Criminals like easy targets. Concealed carry and people owning guns make it harder for them to identify.



Significantly fewer in most gun free countries. You find outliers, I think Norway was top of the list because of that one madman in Oslo. Tough part about statistics is that you need enough incidences that the value isn't just due to chance.

Also, concealed to carry areas do not enjoy a lower injury/death rate due to firearms violence.

Some items intuitively seem to make sense. If we have longer sentences then we will have a reduction in crime. The majority of studies show that this is also false. Neighbourhood crime rates around a halfway house? If we reduce the speed limits we will have fewer car accidents. Lots of examples.

One problem about properly used statistics is that they don't have an emotional response to a problem they are just cold calculated numbers...

-Michael

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cvfd1399

I think you missed the point. He clearly wasn't serious, just making a point that you spout out statements that you clearly have no way to back up, and know that no one will be able to prove.



His subsequent reply proves you wrong.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Reply]n American is significantly more likely to be shot by a friend or family member than by an intruder.



Which means that seconds really matter and nobody else will be able to save you. And the reasoning is apparently that because friends or family members are more likely to shoot people, that those people should simply be sitting ducks for everyone.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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lawrocket

[Reply]n American is significantly more likely to be shot by a friend or family member than by an intruder.



Which means that seconds really matter and nobody else will be able to save you. And the reasoning is apparently that because friends or family members are more likely to shoot people, that those people should simply be sitting ducks for everyone.



Moving the goalposts again?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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cvfd1399

I know him personally he jumps at my home dz and work with him at the fire station. It's funny you mention him not replying knowing you got him banned. Dont expect a reply......




If anyone has been banned it's because of what THEY wrote, not because of anything I wrote. I am not responsible for what someone else writes.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Quote]100 times more likely that if you do this, someone you personally know will be killed or injured by this weapon, rather than a burglar.


As if they are required to be separate people. So it's more likely that a person will shoot the son's friend for looting the house. Or Uncle Joe gets drunk and pulls out a knife to stab Aunt Flo and gets shot. Or the neighbor and his tweaker kids show up to teach you a lesson for cooperating with the police after one of their dogs attackked a pedestrian.

Yoiure exactly right. Why do people suddenly go out and say, "I want a shotgun?" Because there is someone they know who scares the bejeezus out of them. "Yes, officer. I know the person I shot. He's been stalking me for three years."

Did you know that the vast majority of restraining orders are taken out against family, friends and acquaintances?


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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[Reply]My home protection consists of my dog and the local PD.



Know how many family members, friends, pedestrians, etc, are mauled by dogs? Dogs are less predictable than guns and probably even more likely to maul or kill a friend or family member than is a gun.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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lawrocket

[Reply]My home protection consists of my dog and the local PD.



Know how many family members, friends, pedestrians, etc, are mauled by dogs? Dogs are less predictable than guns and probably even more likely to maul or kill a friend or family member than is a gun.



You are right. In stead of a family pet, everybody should have a family gun.

These comparisons are getting stupid.

In the end the US has a constitutional right to firearms, which simply is never going to change. The occasional kid just dies as a price to pay.

Having the convenience of cars comes at the a price too. Each society will have to decide for itself which price they are willing to pay for which convenience/right.

For me the costs of relatively free and unfettered gun ownership are not worth the benefits. I know many will disagree, which is fine.

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>Dogs are less predictable than guns and probably even more likely to maul or kill a
>friend or family member than is a gun.

You're right! It's almost as if everyone should make their own decisions on owning a dog after considering all the risks, rather than buy one because "otherwise they are helpless victims."

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billvon

>Dogs are less predictable than guns and probably even more likely to maul or kill a
>friend or family member than is a gun.

You're right! It's almost as if everyone should make their own decisions on owning a dog after considering all the risks, rather than buy one because "otherwise they are helpless victims."



Hmmm that is funny, "make their own decisions on owning a (gun/dog) after considering all the risks".

Almost interchangeable, and pretty simple.

I considered the risks of owning a gun, and I do as a much as I could to mitigate that risk including bio-metric access control that can't be guessed at by creative kids with too much time, or a pissed off significant other.

I will continue to be a responsible gun owner but I guess a story about me not getting shot after an argument involving laundry, or not blindly firing off shots in the dark, isn't as news worthy as heat packing granny worried about everything that goes bump in the hood.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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hackish


Significantly fewer in most gun free countries. You find outliers, I think Norway was top of the list because of that one madman in Oslo. Tough part about statistics is that you need enough incidences that the value isn't just due to chance.



This works both ways. A lot of people like to cite the small number of incidents in small population areas as vastly improved on the US. Australia is particular is cited as being great since their gun ban, yet their 2 incidents translates to a pretty high rate. That size is too small to make a statistically significant comparison to argue either way.

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It is easy to get a gun off the streets. You just gotta know people. So basically you don't buy the gun off the streets from random people. You buy em from your friend, who happened to have illegal firearm.

Bigger question.

Is #8 birdshot enough for the home protection?

There is so much debate over this.

So are is .22 big enough to be used for home protection?

After hearing this 80 year old dude shooting a home invader and killing one. I absolutely believe that .22 has enough fire power for a home defense.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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DougH

***
Hmmm that is funny, "make their own decisions on owning a (gun/dog) after considering all the risks".

Almost interchangeable, and pretty simple.



indeed - the breeds of dogs best suited to home defense have a cost of their own, and there are ~4M dog bites a year. The fatality rate is quite low, but then again so are the number of infant child shot by accident.

Personally I'd have ethical problems about relying on the dog as the only line of defense; I'm not willing to sacrifice it to an intruder because I don't have a gun option as well. My pets are members of the family.

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