What's everyone's opinion on convicted and registered sex offenders being TI's?

[kelpdiver 2]

promise5

I have found it interesting that there seems to be so much concern for the perpetrators of these types of crimes.

Probably has to do with the ever broadening definition of sex crimes to include sexting by minors, public urination, and the borderline applications of stat rape for high schools with an age difference. If it were restricted to actual child molesters or makes of child pornography (as opposed to mere possession of images), then we're down to just the concerns around false convictions.

You are familiar with the American ideals of justice, yes? That we're not living in Saudi Arabia or China?

[bigbearfng 9]

kelpdiver

***Public sex offender data bases are what keeps them from reoffending more often. They don't change.
The majority are situational offenders-if they are ever in that

I've seen this claim before, but it defies any reason.

What part of this defies reason?
You need a babysitter. Your neighbor offers. You look him up-see him on the public database and say no thanks.
The guy applies/volunteers to work with kids-volunteer coach/at church/ delivering kids bouncers etc. Look him up and say no thanks.
It's there-use it.

[bigbearfng 9]

(as opposed to mere possession of images)

_____________________________________________

And I've already addressed the apologists for kid porn viewpoint.

[bigbearfng 9]

If I can add to anyone's awareness I will.

All of you that have kids, like to take their pics with your smart phone and post them to facebook.
Please make sure to turn off the gps for pictures on your phone.
If you don't the location of where the picture was taken is easily obtained, plug it in to google maps and they know where your child lives, goes to school etc.
Some of these guys have already put this info on the net for others of their kind.

[okalb 78]

promise5

Again, WOW!!!
As I said I believe he has the right to enjoy this sport. Skydive as much as he wants. But WHY does he have to be a TI or any type of instructor?
It was his choices that got him on the registry to begin with. So accept he should accept that he will have limitations to things he can do and not being able to be an instructor is one of them.

So you wanted to hear everyone's opinion as long as they agree with yours?

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[rehmwa 2]

okalb

***Again, WOW!!!
As I said I believe he has the right to enjoy this sport. Skydive as much as he wants. But WHY does he have to be a TI or any type of instructor?
It was his choices that got him on the registry to begin with. So accept he should accept that he will have limitations to things he can do and not being able to be an instructor is one of them.

So you wanted to hear everyone's opinion as long as they agree with yours?

I wonder if you understand the irony of your own comment there......

she's stating her opinion and having the debate - I don't see how you came to that position. Disagreement with an opposing position does NOT EQUAL wanting it squashed into silence. (well, we know the posters that do think that, but they just project that attitude incorrectly on others)


I don't know anyone that comes on here looking for 100% validation and support. Some members try to get that by belittling others to get them to quit the site. But it's been notoriously unsuccessful.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[okalb 78]

rehmwa

I don't know anyone that comes on here looking for 100% validation and support. Some members try to get that by belittling others to get them to quit the site. But it's been notoriously unsuccessful.

You are right, I read her post again and have deleted mine.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[jclalor 12]

bigbearfng

******Public sex offender data bases are what keeps them from reoffending more often. They don't change.
The majority are situational offenders-if they are ever in that

I've seen this claim before, but it defies any reason.

What part of this defies reason?
You need a babysitter. Your neighbor offers. You look him up-see him on the public database and say no thanks.
The guy applies/volunteers to work with kids-volunteer coach/at church/ delivering kids bouncers etc. Look him up and say no thanks.
It's there-use it.

Sometimes the devil is in the details.

http://www.businessinsider.com/surprising-things-that-could-make-you-a-sex-offender-2013-10

[normiss 622]

They left out mooning.

There have been a couple of those....most of us have stopped mooning the plane during flybys.

[promise5 17]

Oh no!!! I never want to hear from people that agree with me.

The only thing I ask is even if we don't again we don't mock each other. I don't think I am in my post.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[rehmwa 2]

okalb

You are right, I read her post again and have deleted mine.

I don't see that ever on these threads, I'm not even sure what to do with it..... I think I'll just smile and nod uncomfortably.....

; )

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[PLFXpert 0]

Quote

Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 60% still being left unreported

And even when it is reported and the victim sits through hours of examination and evidence collection, the rape kit is more likely to sit on a storage shelf than actually be used to catch and convict the perp.

I appreciate your words throughout the thread , Jeanne, as well as Bill's.

On one hand, how can one expect another to change their ways if they are never afforded an opportunity to act any differently? On the other hand, taboos in society can be as good for it as they can be detrimental (depending on the taboo). W/r/t violent crimes, I believe they are good. Thus, affording convicted felons of any serious crime certain opportunities accepts them in to society and perpetuates the cycle of crime.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Arvoitus 1]

Why only sexual crimes? Why not have a watchlist of all the people ever sentenced of any crimes? Don't the victims of non-sexual crimes suffer?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[billvon 2,406]

> It was THEIR CHOICE and THEIR BAD DECISION that got them on that list to
>begin with.

Agreed.

>When did we reach the point that we are so concerned about the people that
>commit such crimes instead of the victims of the crimes.

Well, partly because in some cases there are no victims. Flashing your boobs during Mardi Gras? Peeing on the beach? Taking a naked picture of yourself? All might get you on the list. Based on what I have seen at Lost Prairie, Quincy and Rantoul, most skydivers would be on the sex offender registry if such crimes were enforced strictly.

There are, of course, much worse sex offenses - but that law doesn't make the distinction. It's like the Prop 65 warning in California. Almost every store, parking garage, gas station, hospital, subway station etc has the same warning - "This location may contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm." No one even pays attention any more, because gasoline is considered one of those chemicals. The same thing is happening to the sex offender registry.

[promise5 17]

I would really like to know how many guys that peed in public are on that list. That seems to be the go to scenario.

Well, if a guy peed in public and went through the process and got convicted and ended up on the registry then I feel bad for him. Hopefully he would be able to get his name removed after a year or two.But I still will advocate for those listed on that registry to not be allowed to be instructors.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[wmw999 2,127]

Maybe this is where the DZO's discretion comes in. The guy who peeped a window when he was drunk and a loser? Talk to him, maybe. The guy who has raped 3 women, but only convicted for one? Not him. Unless, as suggested above, he's your nephew and you know him well enough to control him. Blanket rules, like zero tolerance policies, are way too easy and indiscriminate.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 622]

We could just start making all bad people wear a certain color jacket or just put a tattoo on their forehead.

I'm quite concerned on who makes the call as to what level of bad everyone is.

You'd be surprised at how many folks around you have made mistakes in their life.
Marking them and removing them from society permanently isn't the answer.

[Arvoitus 1]

What if instead of doing something stupid, like pissing in public, the person is simply framed?

The problem with sexual crimes is that most people have the mindset of 'guilty until proven innocent' and even if the person is proven innocent, they'll still have that doubt hanging over them, let alone if they end up in some registry for various mouthbreathers to harass.

There was a case around here (bad google translation) where a woman tried to frame her ex-husband as a child molester. She videotaped her 4 year old child naked and made her touch herself on camera, lied to all his(ex-husband's) family and friends that he is a child molester and even managed to get a court order saying he can't meet the daugher without supervision. Guess what her 'punishment' was? 4 months suspended and 8500 eur (11600 usd) in damages to the ex-husband. You think that people won't be suspicious of him even after he was proven not guilty of doing anything?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[promise5 17]

But he's not listed on the registry so as far as becoming an instructor he's good.

Yes many people have made mistakes they regret I understand that. But,to violently assault and rape someone or molest a child sorry that's a little more then a "mistake" they might regret.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[quade 3]

promise5

But he's not listed on the registry so as far as becoming an instructor he's good.

Yes many people have made mistakes they regret I understand that. But,to violently assault and rape someone or molest a child sorry that's a little more then a "mistake" they might regret.

Have you considered the possibility of the TI being hired with the stipulation and understanding he NEVER fly with a passenger of the sex of his previous victims?

I'm not entirely certain I see the issue of the guy being allowed to work with male passengers if his victims have been, for instance, women.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

bigbearfng

******Public sex offender data bases are what keeps them from reoffending more often. They don't change.
The majority are situational offenders-if they are ever in that

I've seen this claim before, but it defies any reason.

What part of this defies reason?
You need a babysitter. Your neighbor offers. You look him up-see him on the public database and say no thanks.
The guy applies/volunteers to work with kids-volunteer coach/at church/ delivering kids bouncers etc. Look him up and say no thanks.
It's there-use it.

It defies reason because you describe a tiny subset of situations where your child and the mindless child molester come into contact. Are you expecting all of them to offer their name and address up front?

And are you asking your neighbor for a driver's license, or just looking up the name and address? Does the church do this for every one of their members?

[billvon 2,406]

>But he's not listed on the registry so as far as becoming an instructor he's good.

And if he IS on the registry because he peed in public, or if she flashed someone during Mardi Gras, or she was in a wet T-shirt contest at Quincy, or he ran naked across a college campus and a 10 year old saw him from a car, then they are also good (IMO.) Problem is you don't know why they are on the registry - which is the problem.

>But,to violently assault and rape someone or molest a child sorry that's a little
>more then a "mistake" they might regret.

Agreed. But unfortunately everyone gets lumped into the same bucket.

[promise5 17]

It's sad that they would be put on the registry for something like that but it happens. Hopefully if someone like that is on the registry they would be able to appeal and get themselves off.

But like some have said a lot of times it's what they've pled down to.
Maybe the guy wasn't just running naked and a 10 year old saw him. Maybe it was a lot sicker then that but he was able to get a plea deal.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Bolas 5]

quade

***But he's not listed on the registry so as far as becoming an instructor he's good.

Yes many people have made mistakes they regret I understand that. But,to violently assault and rape someone or molest a child sorry that's a little more then a "mistake" they might regret.

Have you considered the possibility of the TI being hired with the stipulation and understanding he NEVER fly with a passenger of the sex of his previous victims?

I'm not entirely certain I see the issue of the guy being allowed to work with male passengers if his victims have been, for instance, women.

Sounds good in theory but we all know the first busy day...

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

normiss

We could just start making all bad people wear a certain color jacket or just put a tattoo on their forehead.

I'm quite concerned on who makes the call as to what level of bad everyone is.

You'd be surprised at how many folks around you have made mistakes in their life.
Marking them and removing them from society permanently isn't the answer.

So a red A would be adulterer, would a brown A then be asshole?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.