vision 0 #1 April 28, 2014 So the shit has been hitting the fan for a while and this is where politics is discussed on this site... Where is the discussion? http://rt.com/news/155424-donetsk-clashes-ukraine-protesters/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #2 April 28, 2014 It is very difficult to discuss this topic without realizing that the BHO administration is making a fool of the U.S., once again. Consequently, folks do not want to enter that fray any more than BHO wants to face off with Putin.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 April 28, 2014 How exactly is the current administration making a fool of the US? In terms of the US's options they are limited since the Ukraine is not part of NATO, they are not part of the EU, and any attempts at a major military action would need congressional approval and support for it is not there on either side. In terms of the situation - with a sponsor like Russia assisting in supplying the rioters and stirring up unrest so they can "protect their citizens" there is going to be a lot of bloodshed on try and keep the country from splintering. This is the start of a civil war over land at this rate.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #4 April 28, 2014 Yeah I definately understand that. It seems Putin has to do nothing to win... It is beginnng to look really ugly and with the tension in the south china sea also starting to swell, it is not looking like sunshine and lollipops at all is it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #5 April 28, 2014 QuoteIn terms of the situation - with a sponsor like Russia assisting in supplying the rioters and stirring up unrest so they can "protect their citizens" Who are the rioters? The people that staged a coup earlier this year and overthrew an elected government (though a corrupt one), or the ones that are resiting those very people now. Seems like the usual double standards going on here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #6 April 28, 2014 PhreeZoneHow exactly is the current administration making a fool of the US? We send Kerry over there to make vague empty threats. Then deploy a whopping 600 troops on a "training exercise". That's funny right there. Quote In terms of the US's options they are limited since the Ukraine is not part of NATO, they are not part of the EU, and any attempts at a major military action would need congressional approval and support for it is not there on either side. exactly. Not much we can do without being "team america world police again" yet we make threats and deploy troops to the area. It's their civil war (or about to be). Let's not be world police for a while.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #7 April 28, 2014 QuoteWhere is the Ukraine thread? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4628701#4628701 OK, seriously, though, there have been several: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=ukraine&search_type=AND&search_fields=sbjbdy&search_time=3m&search_user_username=&sb=post_time&mh=500 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #8 April 28, 2014 rhaig***How exactly is the current administration making a fool of the US? We send Kerry over there to make vague empty threats. Then deploy a whopping 600 troops on a "training exercise". That's funny right there. Quote In terms of the US's options they are limited since the Ukraine is not part of NATO, they are not part of the EU, and any attempts at a major military action would need congressional approval and support for it is not there on either side. exactly. Not much we can do without being "team america world police again" yet we make threats and deploy troops to the area. It's their civil war (or about to be). Let's not be world police for a while. So you suggest the US says and does nothing? Many would take silence as equivalent to agreement with Russia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #9 April 28, 2014 QuoteSo you suggest the US says and does nothing? Many would take silence as equivalent to agreement with Russia. Well if war was not usually about energy, then an answer could be that there is such thing as minding your own business. There is more to this than the usual democracy and people's rights rhetoric. This is about energy. Annexing Crimea is all Russia needed to do to secure their interests. They did it legally, with precision and with very little casualties in a few days. The next phase is not going to be so pretty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruelpops 0 #10 April 28, 2014 Who gives a shit about what's going on over there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #11 April 28, 2014 >So you suggest the US says and does nothing? I think we should say whatever we like (which we seem to be doing) but stay out of it. They are arming up for a very messy civil war. We have enough messes of our own without trying to clean up other people's messes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #12 April 28, 2014 billvon>So you suggest the US says and does nothing? I think we should say whatever we like (which we seem to be doing) but stay out of it. They are arming up for a very messy civil war. We have enough messes of our own without trying to clean up other people's messes. I don't disagree. Just didn't see saying nothing as a viable option Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #13 April 28, 2014 QuoteWho gives a shit about what's going on over there? wow! You realise this can escallate into a major international war? The sanctions that have just happened in the past couple of weeks have prompted major energy deals between Russia-China and Russia-Iran within the same time period? These energy deals jeapodize the petro dollar (will not be done in US$) and in turn the entire US and world economy. I think people that do not 'give a shit', ought to open their eyes and ears if they value their current lifestyle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #14 April 28, 2014 QuoteThis is about energy Yes!! its not about freedom or a corrupt government it usally never is. Show me a government that's not corrupt!I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruelpops 0 #15 April 28, 2014 visionQuoteWho gives a shit about what's going on over there? wow! You realise this can escallate into a major international war? The sanctions that have just happened in the past couple of weeks have prompted major energy deals between China and Iran within the same time period. These energy deals jeapodise the petro dollar and in tuen the entire US and world economy. I think people that do not 'give a shit', ought to open their eyes. Nothing (global) will come of anything going on over there. Everything that is happening right now is slight-of-hand. It's an illusion to something else that is happening that has nothing to do with nothing. Americans need to stay the fuck out and let everyone deal with their own damn problems for a change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 April 28, 2014 billvon>So you suggest the US says and does nothing? I think we should say whatever we like (which we seem to be doing) but stay out of it. They are arming up for a very messy civil war. We have enough messes of our own without trying to clean up other people's messes. yup - whether we have messes of our own or not, we really don't need to be volunteering to clean up for other countries ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #17 April 28, 2014 billvon>So you suggest the US says and does nothing? I think we should say whatever we like (which we seem to be doing) but stay out of it. They are arming up for a very messy civil war. We have enough messes of our own without trying to clean up other people's messes. this. Saying something about it is different from making threats that we'll either screw ourselves trying to back up, or screw ourselves by backing down on the threats.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 April 29, 2014 vision It seems Putin has to do nothing to win... It's not a cheap victory. Foreign capital is being pulled. Credit ratings are being lowered (he claims it to be political, but it's natural result of item 1). Russia does not require borrowing for goverment use, provided the price of oil maintains, but with over 50% of their economy coming from oil, they are rather vulnerable. The best part of the longest Ukraine thread were the Russian nationalists, who couldn't even pretend to parrot the Putin lines for long. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #19 April 29, 2014 QuoteIt's not a cheap victory. Foreign capital is being pulled. Credit ratings are being lowered (he claims it to be political, but it's natural result of item 1). Russia does not require borrowing for goverment use, provided the price of oil maintains, but with over 50% of their economy coming from oil, they are rather vulnerable. This is from a naive standpoint. Domestic capital is staying in Russia due to the sanctions, they are fast tracking a domestic payment platform (sidestepping visa and mastercard) and they are now also side stepping the petro dollar. If you look into this a little more closesly, you will find that the USA are shooting themselves in the foot and the wound could be terminal. With tensions building up in the South China Sea at the same time (yes energy, again), the US is building up troops and equipment there too. This will not please China. This also places further strain on the US Military and economy. Much of the US coalition equipment that is in Afghanistan now will want to be removed soon enough. How do you think that got there? On BRIC and SCO countries' rail roads... The single largest point of this however, is the demise of the petro dollar. Saddam tried -look what happened. Gadaffi tried - look what happened. You think the US are going to march into the Kremlin and hang Putin by the balls? ... The BRIC and SCO contries hold much more power than what any media outlet will be willing to talk about, and almost half of the worlds population. No amount of gold plated tungsten or debt tickets (printed dollars) will be able to escape the forthcoming revisitation of the scenario that was faced by Nixon in 1971, when the gold was dropped and the petro dollar was adopted. US default. This move away from the petro dollar is going to hurt everyone. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Once the catylist has been ignited (Petro dollar being ignored and oil traded by other countries in their own currencies). Then the derivatives ponzie will also collapse, the debt will be called in and this this in turn will expose the tungsten bars in fort knox, all the other scams that have been conjured up as well as a run on the banks. If the amrerican people think this 'little scuffle' in Ukraine is just that; Then you had better start picketing outside the white house as your president is waging your future (immediate and long term) with these sanctions. Obviously there is much more to it than 'the scuffle' we are being lead to beleive it is, or why would they be bothering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #20 April 29, 2014 If Russia wants to take eastern Ukraine (Or the whole of Ukraine for that matter) there is bugger all that either the USA or the EU can do about it. There is no will for a fight after a decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Syria is a bigger and more pressing threat to our security. So good luck Ukraine but you're on your own and everyone knows it.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #21 April 29, 2014 QuoteNothing (global) will come of anything going on over there. Everything that is happening right now is slight-of-hand. It's an illusion to something else that is happening that has nothing to do with nothing. Read my above post. QuoteAmericans need to stay the fuck out and let everyone deal with their own damn problems for a change. Agreed! and not just Americans either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 April 29, 2014 vision This is from a naive standpoint. Domestic capital is staying in Russia due to the sanctions, they are fast tracking a domestic payment platform (sidestepping visa and mastercard) and they are now also side stepping the petro dollar. I'll take naive over "the sky is falling" nonsense. What's with this fear of a BRIC planet? Didn't you hear, that moniker has fallen out of favor as all 4 of those nations have started to falter? And how is Brasil or India remotely relevant here? The growth of the Russian economy is going to suffer from these actions. And < 1% growth is pretty lousy for a BRIC type nation. South Africa didn't do too well under foreign sanctions either. If it was all for Crimea, that's a terrible trade. If it was to seize all of Ukraine, the walls will close in, a repeat of the Cold War. And the problem for Russia has been that it relies too much on the outside for food...the tighter it tries to screw the EU on oil, the greater the risk for retaliation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 April 29, 2014 See the attachment. It's RIGHT THERE!!!! Seems to be an easy thread. Not sure what you guys are all talking about....... SHEEESH ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vision 0 #24 April 29, 2014 QuoteI'll take naive over "the sky is falling" nonsense. LOL the sky is not falling at all. There is always prosperity and poverty somewhere in the world. There is always a balance. The properity of US citizens is rapidly declining so it may seem as if the sky is falling for some, not so for others. The point is that these nations do not need the USA. The petro dollar is at risk here. Those countries represent over half of the human population and emerging markets are growing. The only thing keeping the US$ as a global reserve currency is the petro dollar. Current US sanctions are leading these counrties to move away from the petro dollar and use thier own currencies. Pretty simple, beleive what you want but the writing is on the wall. http://www.wallstreetsectorselector.com/investment-articles/analyst-desk/2014/04/world-slowly-waves-good-bye-petro-dollar/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #25 April 29, 2014 vision The only thing keeping the US$ as a global reserve currency is the petro dollar. actually, it's the fact that every other option is worse. Why are you making this the US versus BRIC? The topic at hand is Russher versus the world (minus China who couldn't give a fuck). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
