Cliven Bundy Syndrome

[Amazon 7]

PiLFy

Quote

Whooooosh

And again you would be way off the mark...
SlySlySly

I assure you that I don't care one bit about you or your BS, any more.

But the fact remains.. that you are NOT living in the 17th or 18th century no matter how much the Tea Baggers believe they are from their vantage point from their rectal redoubts... THEY and you are living in todays America.. and asking a lawyer how fucking stupid it would be to point weapons at Federal Law enforcement might be a valid survival technique.

Threatening Feds... yeah no laws against that.

The Rancher is breaking federal law.. and now a bunch of right wing fascist militias show up to try to be martyrs... or was that their wives and daughters they wish to martyr first.. for PR... What a bunch of great guys they got there...

Want to make changes... The Founding Fathers made a long list of peaceful ways to do that..

But if you want to man up and head on down to Bundyville... go for it . Have fun... C Ya... Wouldn't want to Be Ya.

[jgoose71 0]

Amazon

Oh that is an interesting response.. it is not crap it is the reality that a large percentage of people in this country face daily... well except for Duck Dudes with all those Happy Negroes dancing around.... I see Nothing..... ok Sgt Shulz..

News flash!!!! It's not the 1950's anymore. I bet you are still wondering how a black man was elected president with all the rampant unchecked racism still racing through the country, aren't you?

I'm not saying it isn't out there, I just wish some people could see the changes that have occurred in the last 50 years.

The constant playing of the race card against imaginary slights is hurting the people out there that are indeed facing real racism.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[ryoder 1,400]

Let's hear from Glenn Beck on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SUt7Y7FSA&t=7m33s

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[masterrig 1]

ryoder

Let's hear from Glenn Beck on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SUt7Y7FSA&t=7m33s

Glenn Beck... the voice of reason? Bwa-hahahahahahahahahaha...


Chuck

[quade 3]

masterrig

***Let's hear from Glenn Beck on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SUt7Y7FSA&t=7m33s

Glenn Beck... the voice of reason? Bwa-hahahahahahahahahaha...

Which ought to tell you something about how silly Bundy's claims are.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

Which ought to tell you something about how silly Bundy's claims are.

shouldn't this conversation have ended when it was confirmed that he lied about his family having done this since the 19th century?

Or that he poses with an American flag while refusing to acknowledge the USA at all?

[quade 3]

kelpdiver

***
Which ought to tell you something about how silly Bundy's claims are.

shouldn't this conversation have ended when it was confirmed that he lied about his family having done this since the 19th century?
Or that he poses with an American flag while refusing to acknowledge the USA at all?

You'd think.

I think there might be something else going on here though.

There are other anti-BLM stories popping up on the right wing sites. I'm beginning to wonder if this is actually part of a larger attempt to discredit the BLM in general. Maybe whip up sentiment against them, put into question the administration of the land by the BLM at all. Bust it open for corporations to move in unabated.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Boomerdog 0]

Well...different subject...same issue.

Quote

But the fact remains. that you are NOT living in the 17th or 18th century no matter how much the Tea Baggers believe they are from their vantage point from their rectal redoubts... THEY and you are living in today’s America.. and asking a lawyer how fucking stupid it would be to point weapons at Federal Law enforcement might be a valid survival technique.

To clarify, the 17th Century was the period 1600-1699. The 18th Century is the period 1700-1799 and the 19th Century is the period 1800-1899. The American 18th Century saw three rebellions with one slightly bridging into the 19th Century. The rebellions are listed:
1) Shay’s Rebellion (1786-1787)
2) Whiskey Rebellion (1791-1794)
3) Fries Rebellion (1799-1800)
And lest we forget, the Civil War (1861-1865) was a rebellion of Southern States against the Federal Government. In all cases, the rebellions were suppressed with Government forces prevailing. So it seems that despite the contention we live in different times, the common thread of rebellion just might be in the DNA of Americans and this has been with us since our founding. So what's SOOOOO different in the 21st Century?

Quote

Threatening Feds... yeah no laws against that. Want to make changes... The Founding Fathers made a long list of peaceful ways to do that..

Threatening Federal officials, I think everyone knows that’s illegal. But historically, all governments; monarchies, dictatorships, parliamentary and republican democracies have with little if any exception, written into law the illegality of rebellion. So what else is new? The protestors in Nevada are certainly aware of it but this begs a question why they continue the resistance; answer/opinion forthcoming.
The Founding Fathers were not a monolithic mix of peaceniks as suggested. While the initial response to King George III was probably diplomatic, the Declaration of Independence was a declaration of war as diplomatic remedies were considered by the Continental Congress to have exhausted themselves. One last point on this, an act of diplomacy should never be considered as peaceful. Diplomacy may be non-violent, non-lethal but not always peaceful in nature. In point of fact, some acts of diplomacy such as the US embargo of South Pacific Oil against Japan was perceived to be an act of war from the Japanese perspective and was a major factor in the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Quote

The Rancher is breaking federal law…

After reading many of the comments here, I don’t think there’s any disagreement that Bundy is in violation of the law. The compelling disagreement, however, may be due to the beliefs and resulting purpose of Bundy’s actions.
I cannot speak to the traditions of other countries. The American tradition in the rule of law is I submit an assumption of our belief that law requires all of us; to include all branches of the US Government to execute and obey the laws faithfully. The rule of law is not the whim of one individual OR a government and by extension THOSE ELECTED to serially violate the laws determined by any individual(s) as inconvenient and who, under a distorted application of prosecutorial discretion, gives rewards to favored constituencies while simultaneously punishing those in political opposition. The rule of law IS the orderly foundation of our free society and when those wielding power undertake to tame those whose activities and/or opinions are in disagreement, the rule of law is compromised.
Therefore, is the justification for taking lawful action against Nevada ranchers under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) an act of craven pretext? In the opinion of many including myself, those in the government decision loop only want to enforce the ESA against a disfavored class, the ranchers. But if you’re a well-connected member of the favored class who needs the same land for a project consistent with the current administration's policy, the administration will not only restrain enforcing the ESA against those favored; it will use the Desert Tortoise (even though cattle and tortoise pose no threat to the other) as the fulcrum against the ranchers’ in order to manufacture a better pretext for using the law to target and "paint" the ranchers as the bad guys.
The current administration is not the only administration to engage in selective enforcement but I think they’ve raised it to an art form never before seen in the history of this country. When law is applied as a politicized weapon rather than a reflection of society’s shared values it puts ALL of us in danger. Elected officials who weaponize law lose their presumption of legitimacy. Consequently, this situation is turning into the federal law versus the federal outlaw. Don't be surprised if the larger public starts to see this as a Goliath against a David. After all, Americans love to see the underdog win. Time and events will ultimately provide the answer. Either way, I think this ends bad for someone, I just don't know who.

[Amazon 7]

I included 16th and 17th for a reason. I have direct ancestors who were dispossessed of their lands on the James River in one you forgot about... that little dustup called Bacons Rebellion in 1676. That ancestor was one of the men hanged by Gov. Berkeley.

I had several ancestors who participated and fell in the Revolution, including one who stood with Francis Marion in the 2nd SC at the repulse of the British at Charleston in 1776.

The Whiskey Rebellion had cousin George leading a force of 13000 to put down and enforce the tax laws put in place to pay off the debts of states incurred in the Revolution.

I also have numerous dead 2nd Great granduncles who fell during the War of Northern Aggression from Bull Run in 1861 to the Battle of Gainesville in 1864.

Actions have consequences and if the misinformed and delusional militias persist.. they will also take a jump right out of the gene pool and become another footnote in a historical context.

[StreetScooby 5]

Excellent post. +1

We are all engines of karma

[Boomerdog 0]

I purposely made the decision to note only those rebellions after the formation of the United States. However, your legitimate historical references are noted.

[Amazon 7]

Boomerdog

I purposely made the decision to note only those rebellions after the formation of the United States. However, your legitimate historical references are noted.

Our history is written in blood... those who do not learn from the mistakes made in history are doomed to do stupid shit yet again.

[PiLFy 0]

Amazon

I included 16th and 17th for a reason. I have direct ancestors who were dispossessed of their lands on the James River in one you forgot about... that little dustup called Bacons Rebellion in 1676. That ancestor was one of the men hanged by Gov. Berkeley.

I had several ancestors who participated and fell in the Revolution, including one who stood with Francis Marion in the 2nd SC at the repulse of the British at Charleston in 1776.

The Whiskey Rebellion had cousin George leading a force of 13000 to put down and enforce the tax laws put in place to pay off the debts of states incurred in the Revolution.

I also have numerous dead 2nd Great granduncles who fell during the War of Northern Aggression from Bull Run in 1861 to the Battle of Gainesville in 1864.

Actions have consequences and if the misinformed and delusional militias persist.. they will also take a jump right out of the gene pool and become another footnote in a historical context.

IF all of those references are true.... Then, this quote comes to mind:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

[Amazon 7]

PiLFy

***I included 16th and 17th for a reason. I have direct ancestors who were dispossessed of their lands on the James River in one you forgot about... that little dustup called Bacons Rebellion in 1676. That ancestor was one of the men hanged by Gov. Berkeley.

I had several ancestors who participated and fell in the Revolution, including one who stood with Francis Marion in the 2nd SC at the repulse of the British at Charleston in 1776.

The Whiskey Rebellion had cousin George leading a force of 13000 to put down and enforce the tax laws put in place to pay off the debts of states incurred in the Revolution.

I also have numerous dead 2nd Great granduncles who fell during the War of Northern Aggression from Bull Run in 1861 to the Battle of Gainesville in 1864.

Actions have consequences and if the misinformed and delusional militias persist.. they will also take a jump right out of the gene pool and become another footnote in a historical context.

IF all of those references are true.... Then, this quote comes to mind:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

Thank you for the inference that I am a liar... bless your little heart..

You go right ahead and fight for old Cliven.. I hear he needs all the support he can get.
Remember now....

Our history is written in blood... those who do not learn from the mistakes made in history are doomed to do stupid shit yet again.

[PiLFy 0]

Amazon

******I included 16th and 17th for a reason. I have direct ancestors who were dispossessed of their lands on the James River in one you forgot about... that little dustup called Bacons Rebellion in 1676. That ancestor was one of the men hanged by Gov. Berkeley.

I had several ancestors who participated and fell in the Revolution, including one who stood with Francis Marion in the 2nd SC at the repulse of the British at Charleston in 1776.

The Whiskey Rebellion had cousin George leading a force of 13000 to put down and enforce the tax laws put in place to pay off the debts of states incurred in the Revolution.

I also have numerous dead 2nd Great granduncles who fell during the War of Northern Aggression from Bull Run in 1861 to the Battle of Gainesville in 1864.

Actions have consequences and if the misinformed and delusional militias persist.. they will also take a jump right out of the gene pool and become another footnote in a historical context.

IF all of those references are true.... Then, this quote comes to mind:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

Thank you for the inference that I am a liar... bless your little heart..

You go right ahead and fight for old Cliven.. I hear he needs all the support he can get.
Remember now....

Our history is written in blood... those who do not learn from the mistakes made in history are doomed to do stupid shit yet again.

I repeat: "A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

That description fits a number of blow holes on this site. Such POSs are not worth the time or energy to attempt discourse with. I'll not waste any more of mine, here...

[Amazon 7]

PiLFy

*********I included 16th and 17th for a reason. I have direct ancestors who were dispossessed of their lands on the James River in one you forgot about... that little dustup called Bacons Rebellion in 1676. That ancestor was one of the men hanged by Gov. Berkeley.

I had several ancestors who participated and fell in the Revolution, including one who stood with Francis Marion in the 2nd SC at the repulse of the British at Charleston in 1776.

The Whiskey Rebellion had cousin George leading a force of 13000 to put down and enforce the tax laws put in place to pay off the debts of states incurred in the Revolution.

I also have numerous dead 2nd Great granduncles who fell during the War of Northern Aggression from Bull Run in 1861 to the Battle of Gainesville in 1864.

Actions have consequences and if the misinformed and delusional militias persist.. they will also take a jump right out of the gene pool and become another footnote in a historical context.

IF all of those references are true.... Then, this quote comes to mind:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

Thank you for the inference that I am a liar... bless your little heart..

You go right ahead and fight for old Cliven.. I hear he needs all the support he can get.
Remember now....

Our history is written in blood... those who do not learn from the mistakes made in history are doomed to do stupid shit yet again.

I repeat: "A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

That description fits a number of blow holes on this site. Such POSs are not worth the time or energy to attempt discourse with. I'll not waste any more of mine, here...

Intelligent people tend to pick their fights very carefully. The dumbasses have filled graveyards for millennia.

[ibx 2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPM5znJruKg&feature=youtu.be

Oath Keepers abandon bundy ranch, remaining rebels hold kangaroo court.

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

Intelligent people tend to pick their fights very carefully. The dumbasses have filled graveyards for millennia.

+1

Kinda goes along the line of one of Murphy's Laws of Combat:

"Professional soldiers are predictable but the world is full of amateurs."

[cloud9 0]

Actually I’m a bit surprised all skydivers aren’t libertarians.
First what is the Federal Government? It is a group of people hired by the citizens of the United States to act in stewardship of our country bound by the rule of law and the constitution. These stewards are paid for and given money in the form of taxation to pay for the work they do. We hire law makers to write laws, if they write laws we don’t like then we have a right to fire them and hire a different set of law makers.
So the feds have not been good stewards of our land, in fact they have done a poor job. They have also been so careless with our money that they cannot in many cases afford to do what we hired them to do. So they started creating laws to get more money. Now they make laws on a whim and we’re expected to obey them. Example: Yellowstone a majestic beautiful place that you must pay money to go see. We already pay for it in the form of taxation. Yosemite the same thing and many other public lands. Here is just one problem with what they do. We do not hire the head of BLM so we can’t fire him/her for doing a bad job. He/she is not supposed to have the authority to write law, but they do it anyway. Example: It’s ok to hike, ride bicycles, camp, fish, and even mountain climb in Yosemite but base jumping is illegal. If you base jump there you will become a criminal subject to severe consequences. Why is that? Because some bureaucrat doesn’t like base jumping. Would you call that a real law? Would you call a base jumper on public land where everyone else has access a criminal? Here is a short list of criminal acts in Yosemite;
During your visit to Yosemite, be aware that there are people who either intentionally or unknowingly harm park resources. Please contact a park official if you see any of the following illegal acts:

• feeding or approaching wildlife
• hunting animals
• collecting reptiles and butterflies
• collecting plants (including pine cones)
• picking up archeological or historic items such as arrowheads
• possession of metal detectors or using them to locate and collect historic objects
• driving vehicles into sensitive meadows and off roadways
• camping outside of designated campgrounds
• using weapons
Wow the heinous act of picking up a pine cone could cost you $5000 in fines and jail time. Your child catching a butterfly is a criminal. Possession of a metal detector; oh no lock his ass up for sure!
Ask yourself why it is that the government owns over 80% of Nevada? Which by the way means the people own it. It’s time the states got their land back; Nevada should belong to the people of Nevada.

[kelpdiver 2]

cloud9

It’s ok to hike, ride bicycles, camp, fish, and even mountain climb in Yosemite but base jumping is illegal. If you base jump there you will become a criminal subject to severe consequences. Why is that? Because some bureaucrat doesn’t like base jumping.

More completely, it's illegal because 50 years ago they were concerned with squatters resupplying via air drops, and now you have bureaucrats who don't like base jumping and have no interest in updating the law.

[billvon 2,434]

>More completely, it's illegal because 50 years ago they were concerned with
>squatters resupplying via air drops, and now you have bureaucrats who don't like
>base jumping and have no interest in updating the law.

Well, no. It used to be legal around 1980. Then BASE jumpers trashed the place and so they shut it down.

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>More completely, it's illegal because 50 years ago they were concerned with
>squatters resupplying via air drops, and now you have bureaucrats who don't like
>base jumping and have no interest in updating the law.

Well, no. It used to be legal around 1980. Then BASE jumpers trashed the place and so they shut it down.

yes, there was the short lived trial at Yosemite. And it didn't go well. Nor the protest demonstration leading to a fatality.

But Bridge Day has been a more recent example, and I'm not aware of complaints over it. And the climbers at the parks are hardly all angels. Basers weren't the problem; assholes were.

[masterrig 1]

Bundy isn't the only one...

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-utah-blm-battle-20140511-story.html


Chuck

[cloud9 0]

http://sutherlandinstitute.org/news/2013/07/17/feds-broke-a-promise-to-utah-on-land-ownership/

[normiss 622]

Bridge Day is in a national park?