Americans: What would it take for you to leave America for good?

[wmw999 2,149]

Thought experiment for those of the American persuasion. Yes, of course it's the internet, but the question only really applies to Americans, or permanent residents -- for anyone else it's just a job transfer

What would have to happen for you to leave America?

Let's assume this is something that's lawfully voted in as a Constitutional amendment -- i.e. it's really the force of majority law (it takes a whole lot for that to happen). And lets keep it to stuff like that. If I were to win a giant lotto that required me to move to another country, I'd probably do it too

A national religion be declared? Or only the wrong one?
No more freedom of assembly?
Gun registry?
No more direct vote for Senators?
Let's get creative. And justify it.

After the Civil War, a number of American families moved to Brazil where slavery was legal, because of a similar circumstance.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

For me to inherit my own island.

[Croc 0]

When the Alien Invasion occurs we will pretty much have to go where we are told. ( I have it on good information, however, do NOT get on the cigar-shaped spaceships!)

Can't tell you how I know that, but a word to the wise...

Round ones only.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[champu 1]

It's definitely an interesting thought experiment.

I'm going to intentionally skip the first two amendments, because speakers corner has enough threads about those.

I think a formal repeal of any of the 4th through 8th or 14th amendments would be a good time to start shopping for a new home. Without those it doesn't even really matter what any other laws say.

Getting away from the "removing what's there" theme... I think the establishment of a single-payor retirement system (think: eminent domain declared over 401(k)s, IRAs, etc.) would make me want to leave.

[kelpdiver 2]

coupled with the decision to leave is a destination to go to.

A lot of actions that might prompt the wish to flee may infect the world as a whole. Or if change prompts a mass exodus, it may be hard to find someone that will take you.

Change where the powers (feds, local law) no longer have to follow the law is the primary trigger to be worried about. The NSA stuff is a bit of smoke, though it may be more accurate to conclude this was the case all along.

[grue 1]

I moved out of the US for work, now I'm trying to find work back home so I can move back

That said, to get me to permanently say "nope fuck that" in the US would be difficult because there are too many good things that outweigh the insanity of other countries.

The things you mention would all be pretty bad, but I'm not sure any of them would be bad /enough/.

It'd need to be a number of factors that would result in the US losing the advantages it holds for me:

Cheap cost of living

Ready availability of what I consider near-essential creature comforts (central climate control, dishwashers, in-sink garbage disposals)

At least pretending to let people make their own decisions.

Things like that. Or if they started passing laws and doing things that make me think of "First they came…" in the "wow they're actually rounding them up" sense, like the Queensland, Australia government is doing with motorcycle clubs, that'd give me serious pause.

cavete terrae.

[shropshire 0]

[pah]who would take them?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[champu 1]

kelpdiver

coupled with the decision to leave is a destination to go to.

That was my initial reaction to the question, and why I said I thought it was an interesting thought experiment. It's basically the same thing as asking "What, besides or despite inertia, keeps you living in the US?"

[davjohns 1]

Good question. I don't think the US is on a downward spiral the way some others think. But it's worth the time to figure out what your triggers are.

For purely financial reasons, I would head for the Phillipines or somewhere else that I could live well on my retirement benefits. The problems with that is leaving family in the States. So, it is unlikely.

For political reasonsto move: I consider the 2nd amendment the lynchpin of all rights. If a serious effort is made to deprive law abiding citizens of their unalienable right to keep and bear arms, I think things will spiral downhill quickly. If a rebellion failed to develop of failed to set things straight, I would probably find somewhere else to live. I can't imagine things would get better after that.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Croc 0]

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. Who would want me messing up their nice country?

Seriously, I'd consider leaving if the government decided it needed the money in my accounts, as Greece did a while back. Where to go, I don't know.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[davjohns 1]

I thought about that. The problem is, once they take your money, can you really afford to leave? If done properly, you are stranded and just reduced in your economic status. You go from middle-class to lower-class (for instance) overnight unless you have a skill that is in high demand internationally and you are still active in it.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Croc 0]

I need to hit the lottery and retire to Italy. Short of that, I'd rather be broke in my own country than somewhere else.

I think most of us working stiffs have been going from middle class to lower class for years. I'm doing alright, but I'm a service plumber. When I started in the trade in the late seventies, we charged $22/ hr. We worked in nearly everyone's homes. Now most companies are flat rate based on ten times that amount. My boss doesn't even bother to advertise except in the nicest suburbs. Plumbing has become a luxury.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[wayneflorida 0]

wmw999

Thought experiment for those of the American persuasion. Yes, of course it's the internet, but the question only really applies to Americans, or permanent residents -- for anyone else it's just a job transfer

What would have to happen for you to leave America?

Let's assume this is something that's lawfully voted in as a Constitutional amendment -- i.e. it's really the force of majority law (it takes a whole lot for that to happen). And lets keep it to stuff like that. If I were to win a giant lotto that required me to move to another country, I'd probably do it too

A national religion be declared? Or only the wrong one?
No more freedom of assembly?
Gun registry?
No more direct vote for Senators?
Let's get creative. And justify it.

After the Civil War, a number of American families moved to Brazil where slavery was legal, because of a similar circumstance.

Wendy P.

I had my chance when I got drafted in 1971. I guess I'm here to stay.

Another thought. If things got really bad here, wouldn't all the other countries get bad also?

[weekender 0]

I'd leave if we have severe economic instability. the dollar is devalued, social security and medicare are cut to worthless and we are taxed to the point it feels like working is not worth it. so basically in 15 years. hah.

i can immigrate to Italy as a citizen, so its a real option for me and something i always consider. I'm fortunate to have strong ties with my family and would fit right into a nice community. I am American, i am a veteran and proudly served BUT if this place goes to crap, im outa here. if im going live in an overtaxed socialist paradise, I'd rather it be Italy. being poor in Italy, IMO, would be nicer than poor here.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[wmw999 2,149]

Quote

For political reasonsto move: I consider the 2nd amendment the lynchpin of all rights. If a serious effort is made to deprive law abiding citizens of their unalienable right to keep and bear arms, I think things will spiral downhill quickly

That might be specific to the US, because we have the second amendment. There are tons of countries in the world without such a tradition, and some of them are being thrown around as a potential target of migration.

There isn't an ideal country. If SHTF in a global sense, then the US is as good as any other place; you can bug out and find some good dirt to grow stuff here. If you just get pissed at the local government, there are plenty of other countries. I'd find it very easy to live in either western Europe or much of South America.

But it would also take more than it would for some folks for me to consider something to be an "assault" on the second amendment. A national theocracy might actually come a little closer than the second for me. I have my beliefs, and would prefer not to have them dictated.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,649]

davjohns

For political reasonsto move: I consider the 2nd amendment the lynchpin of all rights. If a serious effort is made to deprive law abiding citizens of their unalienable right to keep and bear arms, I think things will spiral downhill quickly.

I fail to see the logic of that. Why would the US spiral downhill quickly without that one particular right, when so many other nations that don't have that right are perfectly stable?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

champu

It's definitely an interesting thought experiment.

I'm going to intentionally skip the first two amendments, because speakers corner has enough threads about those.

I think a formal repeal of any of the 4th through 8th or 14th amendments would be a good time to start shopping for a new home. Without those it doesn't even really matter what any other laws say.

Why skip the 3rd?

If the government sent a bunch of soldiers to move into my house, I think I'd want to move out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

I'd think it would be if the government decided to take private accounts for the good of all (example, "since your 401K is for retirement, then we should take it for social security and share it with everyone")

that would signal a pretty blatant move away from individualism and any semblance of private property rights - though we've been trending in that direction for some time, I'd don't think even this government would cross that line in my lifetime.

and, as said elsewhere - even if they would do it, it would be stealthy and too late for me to leave anyway. though I do believe there are many that post here that think it's a fine idea, I trust the huge majority clearly don't.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[yoink 321]

wmw999

But it would also take more than it would for some folks for me to consider something to be an "assault" on the second amendment. A national theocracy might actually come a little closer than the second for me. I have my beliefs, and would prefer not to have them dictated.

Wendy P.

Same here.

To have the government dictate the religious beliefs of everyone, and via that force them to live according to some history I'd consider to be fictional would be the trigger for me.

I don't really understand how not having access to guns via the 2nd ammendment would change someones life significantly enough to trigger a move. I get that people consider it a basic right, but if the government did take away all guns I'm not sure society or even a persons individual life would change that much - sure some would see it as symptomatic, but I'm not seeing an immediate effect.

A 'you will believe this or else' religious mandate would have massive repercussions.

[rehmwa 2]

yoink

To have the government dictate the religious beliefs of everyone,

Agree with this part too.

(all the posts really do agree in the effect that things that bother us to this extent involve the government becoming even more intrusive in various areas - we want to be self deterministic. Don't take my property, don't control what I own (including guns), don't tell me what to think or believe in.

It's pretty clear to identify those that have the opinion "Don't touch something sacred to me, but if someone has different priorities I refuse to respect or even acknowledge that." Seems silly when they all follow the same underlying theme.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Anvilbrother 0]

3 Million dollars and I would leave for good.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[quade 3]

I think it depends a great deal on the individual and how they see problems in the world and what is a solution to a problem.

From my point of view, I think Freedom of Speech is the key and basis for every other freedom because if you can't even talk about the problem, then you are truly screwed. As a people you can have a temporary peace or safety come from the end of a gun, but it's the ability to calmly and rationally talk about the issues that means you're free.

If there was a national program to strictly limit freedom of expression in the US, I would have to leave. Mostly because I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut and would become a target of the government. Fortunately, information is borderless.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterblaster72 0]

The opportunity to live and work in a country with a better quality of life, like Switzerland. The Patriot Act, the war on Iraq and fracking helped a lot in the decision, and my dual citizenship/EU passport facilitated the move.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[champu 1]

kallend

***It's definitely an interesting thought experiment.

I'm going to intentionally skip the first two amendments, because speakers corner has enough threads about those.

I think a formal repeal of any of the 4th through 8th or 14th amendments would be a good time to start shopping for a new home. Without those it doesn't even really matter what any other laws say.

Why skip the 3rd?

If the government sent a bunch of soldiers to move into my house, I think I'd want to move out.

The Third Amendment is actually pretty weak sauce in terms of the protections it provides from government as a whole to be honest. Congress can put soldiers/state actors in your house without repealing the Third Amendment first.

quade

I think it depends a great deal on the individual and how they see problems in the world and what is a solution to a problem.

From my point of view, I think Freedom of Speech is the key and basis for every other freedom because if you can't even talk about the problem, then you are truly screwed. As a people you can have a temporary peace or safety come from the end of a gun, but it's the ability to calmly and rationally talk about the issues that means you're free.

If there was a national program to strictly limit freedom of expression in the US, I would have to leave. Mostly because I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut and would become a target of the government. Fortunately, information is borderless.

There's a lot of chicken and egg going on in the bill of rights, but I still think 4-8 are more important than either 1 or 2.

Think about it, the First Amendment prevents laws from being written. Without 4-8 the government doesn't need laws.

[Boogers 0]

I ain't leaving. If something that drastic happened, it would be time to stay put and join a revolution to overturn it, by force if necessary, and return things back to the Constitution.

And for those talking about the 2nd Amendment, THAT is why it's there.