Dad's texting to daughter sparks argument, fatal shooting in movie theater

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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that's an odd one.

If a layman botches a surgery on me, he'll be guilty of kidnapping, assault, illegally practicing medicine and an entire host of other laws - vs a surgeon that is hired.

Is it?

A layman botching first aid should be punished the same way as a doctor botching first aid?

I don't understand the aversion against ascribing a higher duty of care to certain people.

(Does this mean that the reverse is true as well, no mitigating circumstances for anybody?)

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Is it?

A layman botching first aid should be punished the same way as a doctor botching first aid?

First - that's a COMPLETELY different scenario that the one you quoted, isn't it?

actually, yes I would if the first aid was provided as an ad hoc type of thing

If the doctor is hired directly to perform medical services,,,,,then that's conducting medical practice, not just being a bystander giving aid. So that's a different thing there.

(if the scenario is an odd ball one where both INTENTIONALLY did shoddy work in an attempt to damage me, then still, I'd want both to be punished - the only difference is the doctor should lose his license to practice medicine in addition to the same punishments, but if the bystander had med license, I'd want him to lose it also)

Do you want to ensure that doctors avoid helping in emergencies since they can leave it to bystanders to do the same without threat of litigation?

"OH MY GOD - that guy just got hit by a car. Hurry, is there a mailman in the house?"



anyway - my other analogy was more applicable. Try again - a doctor walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Now an accountant walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Why do you think the doctor should go to jail for more years than the accountant?

and my base intention is to differentiate between judging an individual based on their specific actions, rather than judging them based on a subjective set of expectations that others place on them. The second is akin to having different punishments for other subjective things, skin color, nationality, gender, etc etc etc - it really leads to unequal treatment under the law. And that stinks. Or even worse - maybe punish someone unequally because the victim was a dad or something unrelated.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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First - that's a COMPLETELY different scenario that the one you quoted, isn't it?

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anyway - my other analogy was more applicable. Try again - a doctor walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Now an accountant walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Why do you think the doctor should go to jail for more years than the accountant?

Right, the analogy that fits your opinion is correct, the one that doesn't fit your opinion is COMPLETELY different.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I believe that with certain professions there is a higher duty of care. Cops is one of them.

When it is illegal to pretend to be one, I don't see anything wrong with punishing one more when they act like they are not one.

[xsniper 1]

davjohns

Are you saying the shooter used deadly force, the texter threw deadly popcorn (butter), or the shooter threw the popcorn so he could later claim the texter did it and the shooter only acted in self-defense?

Are we heading for a call to ban popcorn?

I would enjoy poking fun at this more if someone had not died. I wish guys could still punch each other out and have a drink afterwards.

So much simpler.....duke it out, make up, continue life....what a concept.

[PiLFy 0]

"Try again - a doctor walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Now an accountant walks up and sticks a knife in you just to 'see the light go out in a stranger's eyes". Why do you think the doctor should go to jail for more years than the accountant?"

Because the Doctor swore the Hippocratic Oath: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Right, the analogy that fits your opinion is correct, the one that doesn't fit your opinion is COMPLETELY different.

yet I answered both of them, anyway

doctor is under the legal and professional obligations of a doctor when acting officially as a doctor
if not, he's a citizen like any other
(thus, under criminal law, they should be equal. civil suits, etc that can handle the subjectivities you talk about)

But, even there - If your group of 10 friends comes over and helps you build your deck you designed yourself. and the deck falls over next year killing the neighbor visiting for a Bar BQ,

----civil - does his family ignore the 9 business majors and sue the 1 engineer from the group? I guess a dickhead would.
----criminal - if somehow one of the helpers goes to jail for criminal negligence, they ALL should be treated the same, (as the owner, you already are in the shit)

maybe the disconnect here is civil vs criminal???

I don't believe in putting people in higher and lower classes. I don't believe in unequal treatment under the law. we've grown out of that. Happy to 'agree to disagree' on that.

Anyway, these are interesting discussions and I find I'm refining my opinions as a result - thanks

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RMK 3]

davjohns

I would enjoy poking fun at this more if someone had not died.

Agreed. This was a senseless death over nothing – an argument over texting in a theatre??

What is wrong with a fight? This conceal-carry pussy mentality of I’ll handle any problem by “popping a cap in their ass” is cowardice.

If the clock could be rolled back and the end result was a broken nose, jaw, arm or leg, than this would be funny to most of us (even if not admitting it). However, here we have a wife and small child with no father – I hope this idiot is put away for the remainder of his life (I don’t believe police are that popular in prison, so the noted sentence is probably kind of arbitrary).

Some single actions can be so prominent that they define your life. Killing someone over a popcorn incident really makes his prior years of “he was a community man” drivel a moot point.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[kelpdiver 2]

RMK

What is wrong with a fight? This conceal-carry pussy mentality of I’ll handle any problem by “popping a cap in their ass” is cowardice.

Not intended to defend this incident...it looks like manslaughter to me, or even 2nd degree.

The shooter is 71. The other guy was 31? So it's not realistic to say to the old codger: be a man, put up your fists. If he had really been attacked (the vagueness of his statement 'something unknown hit me' is not very compelling) by more than popcorn, then he is probably down to the options of retreat or fire.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

kelpdiver

***
What is wrong with a fight? This conceal-carry pussy mentality of I’ll handle any problem by “popping a cap in their ass” is cowardice.

Not intended to defend this incident...it looks like manslaughter to me, or even 2nd degree.

The shooter is 71. The other guy was 31? So it's not realistic to say to the old codger: be a man, put up your fists. If he had really been attacked (the vagueness of his statement 'something unknown hit me' is not very compelling) by more than popcorn, then he is probably down to the options of retreat or fire.

Maybe so, but it's really hard to claim self defense when you are the one who initiated the confrontation.
Even when you are confronting someone who is being a jerk, self defense is usually not a defense for the person who starts the fight.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[regulator 0]

Something I learned from my chl class but knew already.

"there are NO WORDS that justify drawing down on someone much less shooting them for an argument unless you are in direct fear of your life."


This older man let his temper get the best of him and he should go to prison for shooting the other man...whether he was an asshole or not.

[regulator 0]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I believe that with certain professions there is a higher duty of care. Cops is one of them.


I've seen my father act professional in some extremely chaotic situations with people yelling, cursing in his face and he just smiled and kept doing his job. Some others look for conflict. This has nothing to do with the fact he was a peace officer and more to do with the fact that he obviously had issues controlling his anger.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Maybe so, but it's really hard to claim self defense when you are the one who initiated the confrontation.
Even when you are confronting someone who is being a jerk, self defense is usually not a defense for the person who starts the fight.

One would like to think that would be the case, but there have been several Florida cases where people have provoked a conflict, resorted to lethal force when things went wrong, and have then successfully invoked a SYG defense. People have always had the right to use lethal force if they are attacked and have no reasonable way to get away. All that matters under SYG is, did the person who resorted to lethal force actually believe their life was in danger at the time they pulled the trigger (or knife or whatever)? How you got into that situation in the first place is not legally relevant, unless you were in the process of committing a crime. Unfortunately, it also seems that the law has encouraged some belligerent bullies to throw their weight around, believing (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) that if things went to hell they could hide behind SYG. I rather suspect the case this thread is about is one of those. Certainly someone with the accused's law enforcement background would have been well aware of SYG.

It's beyond me to understand why anyone would be bothered by someone texting during the previews. It's not like they are talking or making noise. I'm inclined to speculate that the killer was just pissed off that someone was "breaking the rules" (no texting in the theater), yet they were quite willing to excuse themselves from "the rules" (no guns in the theater). In other words, a belligerent bully.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Fortunately, Florida is in the minority as far as that goes. The concept of SYG was supposed to be that a person wasn't required to retreat in a situation where they were lawfully present. I agree (to a certain extent) with that idea. Historically, there have been cases that were prosecuted as manslaughter where a homeowner didn't "retreat" out of a second story window or something similar. These kinds of cases were the inspiration for the "Castle Doctrine" laws. SYG is just an extension of those.
It seems to have been perverted for some reason to the point that, as you noted, a person can pick a fight, start to lose that fight, and escalate to deadly force. And then claim self defense/SYG. And that's really messed up.

As someone pointed out above, this seems to be far more a case of "contempt of (retired) cop." He was used to being obeyed. He took great offense at being ignored.

I've known more than a few cops who were serious bullies. You were going to do what they said, no matter what. Or pay the price.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[davjohns 1]

regulator

Something I learned from my chl class but knew already.

"there are NO WORDS that justify drawing down on someone much less shooting them for an argument unless you are in direct fear of your life."


This older man let his temper get the best of him and he should go to prison for shooting the other man...whether he was an asshole or not.

I almost agree. Like so many rules, there are exceptions. If you tell me in earnest that you will harm me or someone in my family at a later time, I would rather take you at your word and kill you now than give you a chance to find a weak point in our defenses at a time of your choice.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[labrys 0]

http://www.kiiitv.com/story/24966848/records-man-in-theater-shooting-also-was-texting

"DADE CITY, Fla. (AP) - A former police officer accused of killing a man in a movie theater during a dispute over texting had used his own phone to send a message to his son minutes before the shooting, according to documents released Thursday by Florida prosecutors."

Owned by Remi #?

[SkyDekker 1,123]

labrys

http://www.kiiitv.com/story/24966848/records-man-in-theater-shooting-also-was-texting

"DADE CITY, Fla. (AP) - A former police officer accused of killing a man in a movie theater during a dispute over texting had used his own phone to send a message to his son minutes before the shooting, according to documents released Thursday by Florida prosecutors."

Typical cop mentality. Do as I say, not as I do.

[PiLFy 0]

Let that Sack of Garbage die behind bars...

[labrys 0]

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Let that Sack of Garbage die behind bars...

Well, if his lawyer was planning a twinkie defense based on the fact that he becomes enraged when people text at movies... he's SOL now.

Owned by Remi #?

[Amazon 7]

SkyDekker

***http://www.kiiitv.com/story/24966848/records-man-in-theater-shooting-also-was-texting

"DADE CITY, Fla. (AP) - A former police officer accused of killing a man in a movie theater during a dispute over texting had used his own phone to send a message to his son minutes before the shooting, according to documents released Thursday by Florida prosecutors."

Typical cop mentality. Do as I say, not as I do.

YOU WILL COMPLY

[jclalor 12]

Amazon

******http://www.kiiitv.com/story/24966848/records-man-in-theater-shooting-also-was-texting

"DADE CITY, Fla. (AP) - A former police officer accused of killing a man in a movie theater during a dispute over texting had used his own phone to send a message to his son minutes before the shooting, according to documents released Thursday by Florida prosecutors."

Typical cop mentality. Do as I say, not as I do.

YOU WILL COMPLY

He had walked into the lobby to text, that's a bit different than texting during a movie, so their actions were not equal. With that said, he's still guilty of murder.

[labrys 0]

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He had walked into the lobby to text

Where do you get that info? I get that reporters make mistakes, but can you provide some rebuttal?

"Curtis Reeves' son, Matthew Reeves, told detectives that his father texted him at 1:04 p.m. Jan. 13, the documents show. Curtis Reeves told his son he was already seated inside the theater."

Owned by Remi #?

[kelpdiver 2]

labrys

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He had walked into the lobby to text

Where do you get that info? I get that reporters make mistakes, but can you provide some rebuttal?

"Curtis Reeves' son, Matthew Reeves, told detectives that his father texted him at 1:04 p.m. Jan. 13, the documents show. Curtis Reeves told his son he was already seated inside the theater."

but then he went out to complain, so he conceivably sent it then.