12-13-13, School Shooting, Colorado

[airtwardo 6]

rwieder

Quote

Fort Bend County is in TX, not CO.

Wow I'm glad you brought that to my attention. I never mentioned Co. So you were just assuming Co, instead of Tx??

I fully aware of where Fort Bend County is in Texas, I've drilled tons of oil and gas wells there, and have lived in Texas since I was 5 yrs. old..

Best-
Richard

Since it's a thread about the Co. shooting, curious as to why would you post ~

Reports now are saying "Multiple Weapons" reported by Law Enforcement Officials in Fort Bend County.

If you knew it wasn't related to the topic being discussed?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rwieder 0]

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Breaking news over the radio a few minutes ago. This is a suicide, one shooter wounds self inflicted. Very sad.

I'm hearing a slightly different story from sources. Supposedly the shooter had a grudge with a specific teacher. I have no reason to doubt the shooter committed suicide. I just saw a PIO on CNN say he did during a press conference. I do think there is more to it than a simple suicide.

Well, I guess I failed that assignment!

Best-
Richard

[skypuppy 1]

rwieder

Quote

Two students wounded, one critical. Weapon was shotgun.

Reports now are saying "Multiple Weapons" reported by Law Enforcement Officials in Fort Bend County.

***By M. Alex Johnson, Staff Writer, NBC News
A quick-thinking teacher may have saved other lives Friday by trying to lure a gunman away from teenagers at a Colorado high school, where the young man wounded a fellow student before killing himself, authorities said.
The injured student, a 15-year-old girl, was critically wounded and was in surgery after the gunman shot her at Arapahoe High School in Centennial. Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said initial reports that the student confronted the gunman turned out not to be true.
A second student initially believed to have been wounded turned out only to have been splattered with some of the girl's blood, Robinson said at a news briefing late Friday. The shooter, identified as Karl Halverson Pierson, 18, a student at the school, appeared to be seeking revenge against a specific teacher after an earlier confrontation, Robinson said. He said Pierson said he was looking for the teacher by name when the incident began about 12:33 p.m. (2:33 p.m. ET) "The teacher exited the school immediately, which was, in my opinion, the most important tactical decision that could have been made," Robinson said. "That was a very wise tactical decision to try to take the student with him."
An army of officers responded, having dramatically changed their standing orders after the deaths of 12 students and a teacher 14 years ago at Columbine High School — just about 10 miles away. Instead of waiting for backup, they rushed in immediately.
They found Pierson in a classroom about 20 minutes after they began their search, Robinson said. He said investigators knew his identity and were talking to his family, even as his body remained inside the school Friday night.
Robinson said two devices similar to Molotov cocktails were also found in the building, one of which created a cloud of smoke and the other of which was disarmed. As darkness fell, SWAT officers with dogs were still at the school. Police, sheriff's deputies and agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives obtained a search warrant and barreled into a home about 4 miles from the school, looking for any other possible weapons or clues.
No one appeared to be home, a neighbor said.
"An ATF agent said we should stay in the house," she told NBC station KUSA of Denver. "I didn't ask any questions."
'I was just freaking out'
A janitor first spotted the gunman and alerted authorities. The man, who said he wanted to be identified only as Fabian, said the gunman was running side to side, kind of military style."
"I looked to see if there was a gun," Fabian told KUSA. "It was a shotgun.""When he went into the library, he said, 'Where is Murphy?'" Fabian said.
Robinson confirmed that the gunman was armed with a shotgun.
Students described a scene of terror when the shooting started.
"I heard three shots, and then the school went into lockdown," Camden Flinders, 14, a freshman, told NBC News. "I saw the blood in the study center and in the gym. We could see blood on the floor. ...
"We went on lockdown for about 20 to 30 minutes. There was big line of police and blood splatters by the gym and the study center," he said.
Madison Berry, a senior at the school, said she had taken classes with the gunman.
"He was very outspoken — always involved with class discussion," she said. "So it was kind of odd to see that he was the one who did this."
"You would never expect this to happen at such a great school as Arapahoe," she added.
Parents were being asked to gather at nearby schools and churches, the sheriff's office said. They dropped whatever they were doing to rush to the scene — one was seen in full medical scrubs, as though he had just raced out of a doctor's office, KUSA reported. Camden Flinders' father, Marcus Flinders, was working at an area Latter-day Saints temple when he got the news from a fellow congregant.
"I broke down. I thought my son was one of the ones who was injured," he said. "I was pretty much crying. It was really traumatic." 'A traumatic situation'
Authorities said that while they had no indication of a second shooter, they proceeded as though there might have been one as a matter of caution. Students were led out of the building with their arms in the air, some of them being patted down by police.
"The kids have been through a traumatic situation," Robinson said. "We need to ensure that anyone we evacuate isn't part of our problem. We're doing the evacuation slowly and deliberately."
President Barack Obama was briefed about the shooting, White House officials said.
Arapahoe High School, with 2,000 students, is an affluent suburb of Denver in the same county where James Eagan Holmes is accused of having killed 12 people in a movie theater in the town of Aurora last year.
Asked whether the shooting might have some connection to Saturday's anniversary of the deadly shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., Robinson replied simply, "No." Tom Costello, Pete Williams, Azhar Fateh, Simon Moya-Smith and Geoff Tofield contributed to this report.

Best-
Richard

so by multiple weapons, they meant a shotgun and 2 molotov cocktails>? Better make molotov cocktails illegal

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[normiss 622]

I thought we were arguing about magazine size.
Which has fuck all to do with this shooting.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

normiss

I thought we were arguing about magazine size.
Which has fuck all to do with this shooting.

yea this thread went to shit...who the fuck posted about a Texas shooting?

[lawrocket 3]

I'm wondering what's going on in my ancestral homeland of Arapahoe County. Columbine. Aurora Theater shooting. This?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[swisschris62 0]

Just a guess but seems like all hell has broken loose since ryoder moved away from there...

[rushmc 18]

quade

***Are you telling me that this is ...

I'm suggesting it's too soon to know much of anything.

But nice going with the leap to conclusions, counselor.

Everytime you post something like this, you rememind me of your posts regarding Geroge Zimmerman

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

He has a very valid point.

I couldn't believe the first news reports I saw..."assault rifle" "rifle" and "how many bullets or magazines" the shooter had.

All while showing a shotgun barrel laying on the ground.

Media is shit.

[rushmc 18]

normiss

He has a very valid point.

I couldn't believe the first news reports I saw..."assault rifle" "rifle" and "how many bullets or magazines" the shooter had.

All while showing a shotgun barrel laying on the ground.

Media is shit.

Yes he does and I agree with you

However, coming from him it is a joke

His knee jerking early on regarding the zimmerman case should have resulted in knee surgery at the very least

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

normiss

I thought we were arguing about magazine size.
Which has fuck all to do with this shooting.

When did threads get locked down to one point of disagreement? Is that something new?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

lawrocket

I'm wondering what's going on in my ancestral homeland of Arapahoe County. Columbine. Aurora Theater shooting. This?

Other than the ancestral homeland part, I was wondering the same thing.

[riddler 0]

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Can't you tell me the median time it takes for a civil rights changing law to actually make a noticable difference to the culture it's applied to?

I'm betting at least 20 years.

To think that it happens overnight is ridiculous.

Let's see,

1. Limit magazine capacity to 15 rounds. The shooter had a pump-action shotgun and alcohol bombs. No difference in outcome.
2. Require a background check. The shooter was a good student who enjoyed debate and had some popularity in school. Probably, he took the shotgun from his father, anyway. No difference in outcome.
3. Require gun applicants to pay for the background check mentioned above. No difference in outcome.

This same tragedy, 20 years in the future, would have happened exactly the same way.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[champu 1]

riddler

Quote

Can't you tell me the median time it takes for a civil rights changing law to actually make a noticable difference to the culture it's applied to?

I'm betting at least 20 years.

To think that it happens overnight is ridiculous.

Let's see,

1. Limit magazine capacity to 15 rounds. The shooter had a pump-action shotgun and alcohol bombs. No difference in outcome.
2. Require a background check. The shooter was a good student who enjoyed debate and had some popularity in school. Probably, he took the shotgun from his father, anyway. No difference in outcome.
3. Require gun applicants to pay for the background check mentioned above. No difference in outcome.

This same tragedy, 20 years in the future, would have happened exactly the same way.

Re #2: According to reports he bought the shotgun himself not too long ago. Not a whole lot of people between 18-25 in suburbia are going to have criminal backgrounds that prevent them from buying a firearm. I'd guess even fewer are going to have been adjudicated as mentally ill.

Ability to buy a firearm or not this kid went without needed mental counciling as res ipsa loquitur.

The outcome here (as always) was more related to purpose and conviction or lack thereof from the perpetrator and the reaction of everyone else than to what weapons he brought with him and whether any of them had a shoulder thing that goes up.

[lurch 0]

The point of all the antigunner crap isn't to be effective, its to punish the owners for owning something "we don't want you to have" and make it as difficult as possible. To harass. To revoke the right to own a gun without really revoking it. To make it such an expensive, constantly-monitored multi-permits-required pain in the ass that people won't be willing to go through all the hoops.

How many separate hoops have they come up with in some states? I recall "firearms owner permit", handgun permit, some places you need another permit just to be allowed to buy ammo, then there are the rules in places requiring the gun to be so "secured" that it is totally useless and inaccessible when some crackhead kicks in your door and it is needed most...

In every case, every further violent incident is used to justify putting all firearm owners even further "under lockdown"...

You watch. If the kid stole the gun from dad, they'll go after dad for "not keeping the weapon properly secured"... mandate laws requiring multiple locks and keys and the kid will simply steal the keys or crack the locks- but the antis would have the dad punished out of spite anyway.

If the kid came by the shotgun legally and legitimately, there'll either be silence from the antis, because the facts don't serve their agenda, or else they'll crow that this proves things aren't restrictive enough and they'll dream up something even MORE nonsensical that makes it even more of a pain in the ass to be a gun owner and doesn't do squat to stop the random shootings.

Sooner or later this country is going to have to knock off this obsession with "security", rendering everyone equally helpless, and trying to keep everything "under lockdown" and start addressing the actual -problem-... teach the kids nonviolent conflict resolution skills... Rationality. Reason. How to handle problems without immediately flipping your lid and deciding to kill somebody. How to connect with people rather than brooding in stewing resentment and isolation till they pop.

I guarantee this approach will not be attempted until AFTER several generations of increasingly escalating authoritarian attempts to forcibly render the population disarmed and/or play on their fears and stampede them into "voluntarily" surrendering their rights.

Then, when the killing continues anyway, and only after every insane agenda-serving approach has been tried, only THEN will people start to do the logical thing and start educating themselves and their kids.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[rushmc 18]

Great attachment

Right on the money !!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

None of the proposed laws would have prevented this... Legally bought shotgun, not AR. He owned the weapon for about a week so a waiting period would not have worked.

What did work was an armed good guy. Yet some people blasted the NRA for making that suggestion.

[quade 3]

DaVinci

Quote

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

None of the proposed laws would have prevented this...

1. Which would have been completely uninformed at the moment I wrote what you just quoted.
2. It is only now with 20/20 hindsight given to you after several days you can even attempt to make this subjective statement.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Then you are either willfully ignoring information or a victim of confirmation bias, but in either case you're still wrong.

Same goes for you.

Didn't matter in Columbine (they had plenty of rounds left), didn't matter in CT (he had plenty of rounds left When police found Lanza's body -- killed by a single, self-inflicted shot from a Glock 10 mm handgun -- they also discovered that the Bushmaster rifle was loaded with 14 bullets in its 30-round capacity magazine, plus one round in a chamber.

This was one of 10 of this firearm's 30-round capacity magazines at the scene, Sedensky explained. More ammunition for the Glock and a Sig Sauer P226 9 mm handgun was also found. Three such magazines still contained 30 rounds. There were six more magazines nearby -- three of them were empty, while the others had 10, 11 or 13 live rounds in them), didn't matter in Aurora (he had plenty of rounds left when he gave up), didn't matter in VT..... Didn't matter here.

So someone is showing a selection bias...

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

1. Which would have been completely uninformed at the moment I wrote what you just quoted.
2. It is only now with 20/20 hindsight given to you after several days you can even attempt to make this subjective statement.

Nope, that statement about how the gun laws you propose will not work is pretty much valid no matter the situation. As my last post showed your bias and ignorance of the situations you mentioned.

Magazine size does not matter. There is plenty of data showing that and only willful ignorance can explain your making that claim.

[sfzombie13 307]

haven't heard a thing about that yet. i would fully support having an armed guard in every school. it would work for keeping kids safe as well as help out the economy by putting a few hundred more people to work.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[rushmc 18]

sfzombie13

haven't heard a thing about that yet. i would fully support having an armed guard in every school. it would work for keeping kids safe as well as help out the economy by putting a few hundred more people to work.

An armed security office just saved many lives at the school shooting in TX last week

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Here is a link

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/15/Law-Enforcement-Armed-Guard-Kept-CO-School-Shooting-From-Being-Worse

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

quade

***

Quote

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

None of the proposed laws would have prevented this...

1. Which would have been completely uninformed at the moment I wrote what you just quoted.
2. It is only now with 20/20 hindsight given to you after several days you can even attempt to make this subjective statement.

Here I said that laws designed to prevent school shootings were broken right after it. I was correct. It was easy to write that when a school shooting happened.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

lawrocket

******

Quote

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

None of the proposed laws would have prevented this...

1. Which would have been completely uninformed at the moment I wrote what you just quoted.
2. It is only now with 20/20 hindsight given to you after several days you can even attempt to make this subjective statement.
Here I said that laws designed to prevent school shootings were broken right after it. I was correct. It was easy to write that when a school shooting happened.

You probably think that song Carly Simon wrote was about you too. However, my original comment here wasn't directed towards you, was it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver