12-13-13, School Shooting, Colorado

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Another one....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/active-shooter-situation-arapahoe-high-school-denver-police-article-1.1547140

[regulator 0]

Looks like those new gun laws in colorado are working like a charm.

[quade 3]

regulator

Looks like those new gun laws in colorado are working like a charm.

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,380]

From 1996-2000 I lived just 3.5 miles East of there.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Boomerdog 0]

Breaking news over the radio a few minutes ago. This is a suicide, one shooter wounds self inflicted. Very sad.

[quade 3]

Boomerdog

Breaking news over the radio a few minutes ago. This is a suicide, one shooter wounds self inflicted. Very sad.

I'm hearing a slightly different story from sources. Supposedly the shooter had a grudge with a specific teacher. I have no reason to doubt the shooter committed suicide. I just saw a PIO on CNN say he did during a press conference. I do think there is more to it than a simple suicide.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JohnnyMarko 1]

ryoder

From 1996-2000 I lived just 3.5 miles East of there.

My mom kept calling me to see if I was safe...I realize she's just doing her motherly duty, but I'm not in high school anymore and I live about 9 miles north of Littleton in the city...

ETA: Local news is saying he went into the school calling out a specific teachers name

[champu 1]

Quote

The shooter was a student at Arapahoe High School, where he shot at least one of his classmates who remains in serious condition. Another student has an undisclosed, minor injury. The suspect shot himself dead, police said.

The shooter reportedly was targeting a specific teacher, police say.

"We are slowly and methodically clearing the school to make sure the students are safe," Sheriff Grayson Robinson told the media around 3:45 p.m.

"No weapons were found other than the one that was used in the shooting," a shotgun, Robinson said.

Here's hoping the student with the GSW pulls through.

/edit to add: here's also hoping the media doesn't research every aspect of the shooter's life, tell his story, present all of his troubles, and make him famous.

[ryoder 1,380]

Two students wounded, one critical.
Weapon was shotgun.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[lawrocket 3]

quade

***Looks like those new gun laws in colorado are working like a charm.

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

I can pretty damned well tell you that a whole shitload of laws were broken, including laws about guns on campuses. I can rest assured that this action violated a whole bunch of federal and state laws. Maybe even some ordinances.

Are you telling me that this is an example of the success of gun control laws and the effort to keep guns off of school campuses? I beg to differ...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

***Looks like those new gun laws in colorado are working like a charm.

Looks like its too early to tell anything about this situation. I can nearly guarantee you don't know what weapons or magazine capacities were used at the moment you wrote that.

I don't believe I've ever seen an event where magazine capacity mattered for a killer. It certainly could be a factor for a victim with a single magazine.

And rarely does the choice of weapon matter when the victims are all defenseless.

So, no, I see little problem in regulator's statement, which everyone knew to be true even before today, or before it was passed.

[champu 1]

Meh, making a legal stink out of it while someone is still in the hospital kinda sucks regardless of which way the comment is directed.

[quade 3]

kelpdiver

I don't believe I've ever seen an event where magazine capacity mattered for a killer.

Then you are either willfully ignoring information or a victim of confirmation bias, but in either case you're still wrong.

The number of bullets available to the shooter has mattered in quite a few cases. We can start with the Reagan assassination attempt where Hinkley simply gave up after emptying his gun. If he had more bullets to fire, he almost assuredly would have. We can continue to trace it to the Gabby Giffords shooting where Loughner was stopped in the interval when he attempted to reload.

Magazine size does matter. You can say it doesn't all you want, but history is not on your side.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

lawrocket

Are you telling me that this is ...

I'm suggesting it's too soon to know much of anything.

But nice going with the leap to conclusions, counselor.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Boomerdog 0]

Well...that's what's being reported in my neck of the woods. They say first reports are always questionable but what I am hearing has been updates...we shall see!

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

***I don't believe I've ever seen an event where magazine capacity mattered for a killer.

Then you are either willfully ignoring information or a victim of confirmation bias, but in either case you're still wrong.

The number of bullets available to the shooter has mattered in quite a few cases. We can start with the Reagan assassination attempt where Hinkley simply gave up after emptying his gun. If he had more bullets to fire, he almost assuredly would have. We can continue to trace it to the Gabby Giffords shooting where Loughner was stopped in the interval when he attempted to reload.

Magazine size does matter. You can say it doesn't all you want, but history is not on your side.

I can rephrase, then. Killers will use the options available to them. If they have to use 10 round magazines and then want to kill lots more, then they bring more magazines or they opt for the deadlier shotgun.

Loughner killed 6, seriously hurt Giffords. He succeeded in his mission. He dropped his substitute magazine, presumably the same 33 rounder he initially used. That's a lot heavier and less reliable than a 10 or 17...more likely to fumble. Just as that shooter in the theatre struggled with a 100 rd drum magazine. The benefit you espouse of the smaller magazine relies on shooter incompetence. Within a day I can train you to switch magazines and hit center mass from 7 yards in less than 2 seconds. And I'm not the instructor.

Hinkley? If you want to go back 32 years ago, to a time where no guns were permitted at all in DC, yeah, he used a revolver and shot multiple people (Reagan, Brady, Delahanty, McCarthy). The last one was protecting the President - Hinkley would not have succeeded in killing Reagan with more bullets, but sure, he'd probably have succeeded in killing McCarthy.

But the point I'd like to point you back to - banning rifles and higher capacity magazines just drives would be killers to lighter, more concealable guns and lighter ammo that they can carry more of. Are you sure that's any improvement?

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Gun laws, shmun laws...if there's a will there's a way for people with screw loose...

How about the number of instances like this one in this geographic region? Sure, there are shootings in places like Chicago all the time, but these (Columbine, Batman movie theatre, this one) are less gang-banging and more mental illness driven. I haven't lived here to fully understand the culture quite yet, but it makes me wonder what the youth in this area are up to...

[quade 3]

kelpdiver

But the point I'd like to point you back to - banning rifles and higher capacity magazines just drives would be killers to lighter, more concealable guns and lighter ammo that they can carry more of. Are you sure that's any improvement?

Nobody is banning rifles. Your suggestion is simply inaccurate. At most, -some- people wish to ban a certain type of rifle, but since they have a horrible history of being able to define what that type is, that's simply not happening at this point.

We've already discussed how magazine size does, in fact, matter.

To my knowledge, nobody is suggesting a ban on the "weight" of ammo.

The more difficult society makes it for crazy people with guns to shoot more people is, in my opinion, an improvement over the current situation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

***But the point I'd like to point you back to - banning rifles and higher capacity magazines just drives would be killers to lighter, more concealable guns and lighter ammo that they can carry more of. Are you sure that's any improvement?

Nobody is banning rifles. Your suggestion is simply inaccurate. At most, -some- people wish to ban a certain type of rifle, but since they have a horrible history of being able to define what that type is, that's simply not happening at this point.


It's not for a lack of trying, and you know that. Why else are you even asking the question 'what type of gun was used.' That detail is irrelevant to me. If it the shotgun is confirmed, that's the least useful for your kind to use. Though the shotgun is the deadliest option, it's also the one used by the most hunters.

Quote

The more difficult society makes it for crazy people with guns to shoot more people is, in my opinion, an improvement over the current situation.

And I counter that these attempted gestures do not accomplish that, and may in fact do the opposite.

[regulator 0]

Agreed. Hope the injured makes a full recovery.

[yoink 321]

lawrocket

Are you telling me that this is an example of the success of gun control laws and the effort to keep guns off of school campuses? I beg to differ...

Aren't you a lawyer?
Can't you tell me the median time it takes for a civil rights changing law to actually make a noticable difference to the culture it's applied to?


I'm betting at least 20 years.

To think that it happens overnight is ridiculous.

[champu 1]

quade

...a victim of confirmation bias... ...Hinkley... ...Loughner...

I feel like I've had to ask you this before, and I searched but it's entirely possible the thread or our exchange was deleted, but do you ever read what you write?

Here is a video I think is interesting and I think it's worth watching.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Two students wounded, one critical. Weapon was shotgun.

Reports now are saying "Multiple Weapons" reported by Law Enforcement Officials in Fort Bend County.

Quote

By M. Alex Johnson, Staff Writer, NBC News
A quick-thinking teacher may have saved other lives Friday by trying to lure a gunman away from teenagers at a Colorado high school, where the young man wounded a fellow student before killing himself, authorities said.
The injured student, a 15-year-old girl, was critically wounded and was in surgery after the gunman shot her at Arapahoe High School in Centennial. Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said initial reports that the student confronted the gunman turned out not to be true.
A second student initially believed to have been wounded turned out only to have been splattered with some of the girl's blood, Robinson said at a news briefing late Friday. The shooter, identified as Karl Halverson Pierson, 18, a student at the school, appeared to be seeking revenge against a specific teacher after an earlier confrontation, Robinson said. He said Pierson said he was looking for the teacher by name when the incident began about 12:33 p.m. (2:33 p.m. ET) "The teacher exited the school immediately, which was, in my opinion, the most important tactical decision that could have been made," Robinson said. "That was a very wise tactical decision to try to take the student with him."
An army of officers responded, having dramatically changed their standing orders after the deaths of 12 students and a teacher 14 years ago at Columbine High School — just about 10 miles away. Instead of waiting for backup, they rushed in immediately.
They found Pierson in a classroom about 20 minutes after they began their search, Robinson said. He said investigators knew his identity and were talking to his family, even as his body remained inside the school Friday night.
Robinson said two devices similar to Molotov cocktails were also found in the building, one of which created a cloud of smoke and the other of which was disarmed. As darkness fell, SWAT officers with dogs were still at the school. Police, sheriff's deputies and agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives obtained a search warrant and barreled into a home about 4 miles from the school, looking for any other possible weapons or clues.
No one appeared to be home, a neighbor said.
"An ATF agent said we should stay in the house," she told NBC station KUSA of Denver. "I didn't ask any questions."
'I was just freaking out'
A janitor first spotted the gunman and alerted authorities. The man, who said he wanted to be identified only as Fabian, said the gunman was running side to side, kind of military style."
"I looked to see if there was a gun," Fabian told KUSA. "It was a shotgun.""When he went into the library, he said, 'Where is Murphy?'" Fabian said.
Robinson confirmed that the gunman was armed with a shotgun.
Students described a scene of terror when the shooting started.
"I heard three shots, and then the school went into lockdown," Camden Flinders, 14, a freshman, told NBC News. "I saw the blood in the study center and in the gym. We could see blood on the floor. ...
"We went on lockdown for about 20 to 30 minutes. There was big line of police and blood splatters by the gym and the study center," he said.
Madison Berry, a senior at the school, said she had taken classes with the gunman.
"He was very outspoken — always involved with class discussion," she said. "So it was kind of odd to see that he was the one who did this."
"You would never expect this to happen at such a great school as Arapahoe," she added.
Parents were being asked to gather at nearby schools and churches, the sheriff's office said. They dropped whatever they were doing to rush to the scene — one was seen in full medical scrubs, as though he had just raced out of a doctor's office, KUSA reported. Camden Flinders' father, Marcus Flinders, was working at an area Latter-day Saints temple when he got the news from a fellow congregant.
"I broke down. I thought my son was one of the ones who was injured," he said. "I was pretty much crying. It was really traumatic." 'A traumatic situation'
Authorities said that while they had no indication of a second shooter, they proceeded as though there might have been one as a matter of caution. Students were led out of the building with their arms in the air, some of them being patted down by police.
"The kids have been through a traumatic situation," Robinson said. "We need to ensure that anyone we evacuate isn't part of our problem. We're doing the evacuation slowly and deliberately."
President Barack Obama was briefed about the shooting, White House officials said.
Arapahoe High School, with 2,000 students, is an affluent suburb of Denver in the same county where James Eagan Holmes is accused of having killed 12 people in a movie theater in the town of Aurora last year.
Asked whether the shooting might have some connection to Saturday's anniversary of the deadly shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., Robinson replied simply, "No." Tom Costello, Pete Williams, Azhar Fateh, Simon Moya-Smith and Geoff Tofield contributed to this report.

Best-
Richard

[ryoder 1,380]

rwieder

Quote

Two students wounded, one critical. Weapon was shotgun.

Reports now are saying "Multiple Weapons" reported by Law Enforcement Officials in Fort Bend County.

Best-
Richard

Fort Bend County is in TX, not CO.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

Fort Bend County is in TX, not CO.

Wow I'm glad you brought that to my attention. I never mentioned Co. So you were just assuming Co, instead of Tx??

I fully aware of where Fort Bend County is in Texas, I've drilled tons of oil and gas wells there, and have lived in Texas since I was 5 yrs. old..

Best-
Richard