kallend 1,666 #26 September 16, 2013 OHCHUTELack of access control. How could multiple shooters get in? How could one shooter get to the 4th floor of a building with two long guns and a pistol, from which he shoots down into the cafeteria? Lack of access control is the reason. This has nothing to do with gun ownership by law abiding citizens. Prohibiting law abiding citizens from owning guns is not the solution. What proof do you have that these guys weren't "law abiding citizens" until this morning? All criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #27 September 16, 2013 kallend***Lack of access control. How could multiple shooters get in? How could one shooter get to the 4th floor of a building with two long guns and a pistol, from which he shoots down into the cafeteria? Lack of access control is the reason. This has nothing to do with gun ownership by law abiding citizens. Prohibiting law abiding citizens from owning guns is not the solution. What proof do you have that these guys weren't "law abiding citizens" until this morning? All criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime. Hmmm. One might argue that they are law abiding citizens until they are convicted of a crime. Don't tell me that you conveniently forgot about that whole burden of proof thing, and innocent until proven guilty in a court of law thing . . . did you?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #28 September 16, 2013 Quote All criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime. That's a bit circular considering that a criminal is someone who has already committed a crime... Yeah, yeah. I know what you meant. Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #29 September 16, 2013 Anybody else here ever gain access to a military base in this country? Ever notice the LAYERS of security. WTF happened in this case is going to be interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #30 September 16, 2013 normiss Anybody else here ever gain access to a military base in this country? Ever notice the LAYERS of security. WTF happened in this case is going to be interesting. Sources say 9 dead . . . and multiple shooters . . . as many as 4. Live feed Yeah its fox news, get over it.DAMMIT!12 fatalities as of the 2:05 update. No reason to believe terrorism . . . BOLO out for two other suspects.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #31 September 16, 2013 kallend***Lack of access control. How could multiple shooters get in? How could one shooter get to the 4th floor of a building with two long guns and a pistol, from which he shoots down into the cafeteria? Lack of access control is the reason. This has nothing to do with gun ownership by law abiding citizens. Prohibiting law abiding citizens from owning guns is not the solution. What proof do you have that these guys weren't "law abiding citizens" until this morning? All criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime. Slicing and dicing... of course a law abiding citizen can become a perp at any point in time the reason you don't want to limit the rights of the majority who are law abiding and most likely won't turn perp. Lack of access control is the reason, not that AR15's are in the hands of citizens. 12 dead. One dead perp in mil outfit, 2 possible perps also in mil outfits are sought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #32 September 16, 2013 Oh come on. This situation has nothing to do with civilians. Let's not interject anything about what citizens would have done in this situation. They have no access to this base, even if they were Rambo or a regular john doe. Let's all admit this is a different situation with circumstances that have nothing to do with civilian life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #33 September 16, 2013 normissAnybody else here ever gain access to a military base in this country? Ever notice the LAYERS of security. WTF happened in this case is going to be interesting. I've driven onto a base, stopped, mentioned the reason for my presence, and was waved on through. Yes, this was post-911. This was a base where there may or may not be nuclear weapons, but there are lots of nuclear weapons technicians.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #34 September 16, 2013 turtlespeed Or a banana. What if he's got a pointed stick?!?!?-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #35 September 16, 2013 QuoteThey have no access to this base, even if they were Rambo or a regular john doe. Not true. The last time I was there, all you had to do is drive (on weekends) or walk up to the correct gate and tell them that you want to visit the museums on base.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #36 September 16, 2013 Quote This was a base where there may or may not be nuclear weapons, but there are lots of nuclear weapons technicians. Please be clear if you want to insinuate something about nuclear weapons or the security of such weapons in the US, particularly at this base. If not, STFU. Also if not, admit that you're going for some sort of shock value here. If so, please let us know your experience with nuclear weapons and the security of those particular weapons, particularly at this facility. Thanks! edit: wow. nevermind... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #37 September 16, 2013 The museum yes. I already said that. Your Monday morning quarterbacking is AWESOME though. How about any other part of the base, "the last time you were there." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #38 September 16, 2013 Quote Please be clear if you want to insinuate something about nuclear weapons or the security of such weapons in the US, particularly at this base. If not, STFU. Also if not, admit that you're going for some sort of shock value here. You're going to develop some blood pressure issues if you approach this forum from this angle. That, or you'll get a ticket out pretty quickly Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #39 September 16, 2013 Quote You're going to develop some blood pressure issues if you approach this forum from this angle. That, or you'll get a ticket out pretty quickly Don't worry, I'm catching on pretty quick from your last post. Ha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #40 September 16, 2013 rhaig***Anybody else here ever gain access to a military base in this country? Ever notice the LAYERS of security. WTF happened in this case is going to be interesting. I've driven onto a base, stopped, mentioned the reason for my presence, and was waved on through. Yes, this was post-911. This was a base where there may or may not be nuclear weapons, but there are lots of nuclear weapons technicians. Yep. Its can't be all THAT high security if you can drive right up to the building in a car with a huge fucking camera on top of it and "Google Street View" painted on the side. https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=washington+dc&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-76.998448!3d38.874899!2m2!1f118.17!2f90!4f75!2m4!1e1!2m2!1sipw3em5sQUbWvg7HY2QVmg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d53915!2d-117.887414!3d33.7380535!3m2!1i1275!2i780!4f13.1&fid=5quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #41 September 16, 2013 I know some of the tech who worked on the base I was referring to. They were allowed to say that they were nuclear weapons techs, but could neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons on base. There are more secure areas of any base. But getting ON basecan be as simple as a smile, nod, answer some questions, and a hand-wave.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #42 September 16, 2013 QuoteThe museum yes. I already said that. How about any other part of the base, "the last time you were there." The last time I was there was a couple of weeks ago. You said civilians can't get into the base. The museums are on the base. Civilians can go the museums, therefore civilians can get onto the base. If you meant to say "civilians can't get onto that part of the base", then be specific. I'm not sure if that's true or not regardless. You don't count the civilians who work there as civilians, btw?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #43 September 16, 2013 Sorry. Civilians can absolutely get onto the base (to the museum). My apologies for being unclear. Yes, civilians also work there and can get onto the base into that area (with proper ID). There are civilian workers who are there every day (last I was there). Again, my apologies for being unclear. But there is a TOTAL difference between people who work there and what you're talking about. Please expand on what you are insinuating. Law-abiding DC gun carriers who could/would have done something in this situation. Or are you not saying that? Do you have some other point? Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #44 September 16, 2013 Sorry if I was being a dick. I guess my point was that nuclear weapons (as of now) have nothing to do with this, and I'm just not sure why you brought it up. If you have a reason, I'm certainly all ears and would be very interested to hear you out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #45 September 16, 2013 QuoteAll criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime. Their law abiding up until the time they commit their first crime, Then their a criminal for the rest of their life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #46 September 16, 2013 Did you read the question he was answering? It was in regards to general base security. My understanding is he answered the question with a scenario of a place that should have had significantly tighter security than say a base with public access. Sounds like I'm in for a disappointing change to when I was in... Although I was never on a base that had public access. I spent most of my time in Top Secret/no foreign areas - except for the few that allowed civilian women access to the EM Club on Friday and Saturday nights (thank you very much!). I really hope our services have not gotten lax about security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorkitup 1 #47 September 16, 2013 I guess I somehow missed the point or question. Oops! Its kind of hard to follow things in here. From my experience visiting a number of federal buildings (and bases) over the last 15 years in DC, most security operations are done by outside security contractors (which is a whole 'nother discussion on "cost savings"). They have guns and do a decent job. At this particular base there is a museum that allows regular civilian entrance. That's publicly available information. Also available publicly, the rest of the base has two levels of security. At this point, I don't even know what we're arguing about. But I hear that's pretty common in SC. My friends warned me about this... Ha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #48 September 16, 2013 Then why does it feel like you've been here before and fully understand how things operate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #49 September 16, 2013 jclalor QuoteAll criminals are law abiding right up until the time they commit a crime. Their law abiding up until the time they commit their first crime, Then their a criminal for the rest of their life. The shooter is a real piece of work. http://home.myhughesnet.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-police_responding_to_reported_shooter_at-ap Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #50 September 16, 2013 rhaig*** Or a banana. What if he's got a pointed stick?!?!? See now thats simple. Release the Tiger!Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
