Why the Economy Will Never Recover with Obama as President

[ianmdrennan 2]

Not a PA at all imo. Out of line though for a civil discussion which is why I removed it but you'd already started responding to it so it was a wasted effort I guess.

Pretty thin skin there

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Please explain what looniness Obama has created for business owners. What laws have changed since the last president that makes it harder to run a small business?

He's very erratic. Nobody knows what he will do next. From taxes to healthcare. Business people have to plan well in advance when setting pricing structures to make sure we have everything covered from gasoline, utilities, marketing costs, on and on. We rely on a certain degree of stability in the marketplace before we can decide what risks we can take on. When we don't know what our costs are going to be, it makes it difficult to plan. When our customers can't afford our products becasue they are afraid of losing their jobs, it disrupts the flow. When fuel costs are all over the place, it makes it difficult. When we don't know what the tax rates will be, it makes it difficult. So what we are all doing is waiting to see what's going to happen next. We are more content to just maintain what we have because the risk of expanding is too difficult to manage.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Not a PA at all imo. Out of line though for a civil discussion which is why I removed it but you'd already started responding to it so it was a wasted effort I guess.

Pretty thin skin there

Then you need to talk to Billvon and get his perspective. He has banned me and others for much less.

Thin skin...that's a good one.

[AndyBoyd 0]

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I don't own any businesses. I made my point twice, as clearly as I could, with support from an external source, and now you want to change the subject. You are not worth my time. Continue your anti-Obama rant. Have fun. By the way, if you own businesses and find yourself running to the bank for emergency loans all the time, you might want to think about restructuring a few things.

See, Andy, that was my point. You have never run anything. All of your knowledge comes from someone telling you how it is. You have absolutely no idea of what effect the loonyness of Obama's policies have on real world businesses. Perhaps if more people would lose their fear of failure and leave the comfort of that weekly paycheck, they would start to gain some real insightful knowledge instead of what's taught in the academic world.

Did you run your business into the ground, and now you're mad at Obama? Is that what this is about? Sounds like you've got real problems. I like my weekly paycheck, thanks. Maybe the bank will give you another loan. Best of luck.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I don't own any businesses. I made my point twice, as clearly as I could, with support from an external source, and now you want to change the subject. You are not worth my time. Continue your anti-Obama rant. Have fun. By the way, if you own businesses and find yourself running to the bank for emergency loans all the time, you might want to think about restructuring a few things.

See, Andy, that was my point. You have never run anything. All of your knowledge comes from someone telling you how it is. You have absolutely no idea of what effect the loonyness of Obama's policies have on real world businesses. Perhaps if more people would lose their fear of failure and leave the comfort of that weekly paycheck, they would start to gain some real insightful knowledge instead of what's taught in the academic world.

Did you run your business into the ground, and now you're mad at Obama? Is that what this is about? Sounds like you've got real problems. I like my weekly paycheck, thanks. Maybe the bank will give you another loan. Best of luck.

See, there you go again, Andy. I am reminded of the wuffo who did one tandem and who sits in the bar telling everyone about what a risk taker he is.
I haven't run anything into the ground. Had you taken some time to read what I have said instead of thinking up your next zinger, you would have had a better chance of understanding that I am saying businesses are afraid to expand and hire new people. What that means is that unemployment will continue to stay high and that means fewer people will be able to spend money. Spending money is what helps businesses expand, Andy.

You can now go back to the safety of your 9-5 job and continue tell everyone how they should be running their businesses. But when your boss comes up to you one day and hands you that pink slip, I hope you will fondly recall our conversation. The over 11% of our population that is out of work or have just given up looking because nobody is hiring might help you see the fallacy of your perspective. Perhaps they will share a park bench with you.

[grimmie 173]

So you really have no facts about what he has done to make it harder to run a small business, just speculation.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Please explain what looniness Obama has created for business owners. What laws have changed since the last president that makes it harder to run a small business?

He's very erratic. Nobody knows what he will do next. From taxes to healthcare. Business people have to plan well in advance when setting pricing structures to make sure we have everything covered from gasoline, utilities, marketing costs, on and on. We rely on a certain degree of stability in the marketplace before we can decide what risks we can take on. When we don't know what our costs are going to be, it makes it difficult to plan. When our customers can't afford our products becasue they are afraid of losing their jobs, it disrupts the flow. When fuel costs are all over the place, it makes it difficult. When we don't know what the tax rates will be, it makes it difficult. So what we are all doing is waiting to see what's going to happen next. We are more content to just maintain what we have because the risk of expanding is too difficult to manage.

you know, these are all matters determined by Congress, not the White House.

and even, then, it's a bit delusional. Gas prices are all over the map for external reasons. The only one Obama has any real impact on is Iran, and he's far more moderate on that subject that Romney has been.

We don't know what taxes will be because both parties agreed to run away from the issue until after the election. That was a bipartisan copout.

Healthcare is the only one with teeth, but let's not forget that business health care costs have long been an out of control expense. Our current model will inevitably fail. And the over/under on that is a decade.

Love the Royal We, btw. GTF over yourself (yourselves?) already.

Winners are flourishing in this environment. Lots of opportunity in a sea of cautious losers.

[kelpdiver 2]

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It's businesses that determine how good or bad the economy is. Obama is like a virus that came in and disrupted the natural flow.

the natural flow at the time he entered office was down the toilet. And it wasn't much better in late 2000,early 2001 when a similar bubble burst. They book ended the Bush Presidency.

Also, if businesses could decide that, how could so many of them fail in 2008? Bear, Wamu, Wachovia, Countrywide....no, it's the customers that decide how good or bad the economy is. Demand, not supply.

Where do those consumers get their money from?

where do business get their money from? It works both ways.

The difference is that if a company decides to lay everyone off, it's out of business. It cannot make the customers buy a damn thing unless it is a monopoly providing a necessity. The utilities are the only ones. And if American businesses want to be stupid, there are plenty of global companies that can and will (like Toyota and Honda obliterating the 70s Big 3).

You the company are completely replaceable. Consumers are not. Ignore this reality at your own peril.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So you really have no facts about what he has done to make it harder to run a small business, just speculation.

No Grimmie, I have facts, I see them every day. You are the one with the speculation. How could you have anything else?

[Gravitymaster 0]

I take it you really enjoy posing your own hypotheticals and then answering them with your own theories. I'll just sit here while you entertain yourself.

[grimmie 173]

Well then, what are the facts?
He has pushed for anti business legislation? what?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Well then, what are the facts?
He has pushed for anti business legislation? what?

Let me ask you something, Grimmie. Why do you think this has been a "jobless recovery"? The poor number of jobs created is unprecedented in our history. What "theory" would you say explains that? Why aren't businesses hiring?

Corporate profits are at an all time high but yet so is the unemployment rate. Why do you think that is?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well then, what are the facts?
He has pushed for anti business legislation? what?

he can't answer those questions for the same reason that Ryan didn't have time to go over how they would fix the budget - in reality he has no clothes.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I take it you really enjoy posing your own hypotheticals and then answering them with your own theories. I'll just sit here while you entertain yourself.

put a different way, you were called out on your fantastic bullshit with specific challenges and you can't answer a single one of them. But oddly enough, you're incapable of actually just sitting there.

[davjohns 1]

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>Why the Economy Will Never Recover with Obama as President

Sucks that it did, then.

I'm selling a house next week for $125,000 that I gave $200,000 for six years ago. Are you telling me the economy has recovered and I shouldn't sell at this price?

Personally, I'm not sure we will recover without a great deal of pain first. Claiming we have already recovered makes me wonder if we are even talking about the same subject.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[winsor 186]

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>Why the Economy Will Never Recover with Obama as President

Sucks that it did, then.

Right. This "recovery" is on a par with our "military victory" in Vietnam (you know, when Sylvester Stallone and Chuck Norris achieved Peace with Honor?).

Those folks who think that the Government cooks the books are so unfair. They are as bad as the people who gave Bernie Madoff a hard time; now he is at the mercy of people who think badly of him.

Yes, this is a time of peace and prosperity. Anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.

[rushmc 18]

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Obama is like a virus that came in and disrupted the natural flow

Reads to me like you're blaming Obama.

That said, it's total nonsense that the economy will never recover 'under obama'. It'll recover under Obama, or Romney, or the President thereafter, or we as a nation will be done (not likely just yet).

If you think I have any zeal for Obama, you're out of your mind. He's been an incredible disappointment. I've said that on this forum before.

edit: Cleaned up the post so I could address the issue, instead of the poster.
Ian

I agree that recovery is impossible under Obama. But I see it as a continuation of what government has been doing to business long before he came to office. He has, IMO, accelerated the decline by agenda he has chosen.

Regulation is what is killing business. Manufacturing is not leaving this country because greedy corps can make more money by leaving. They are, in many cases, given no choice. Because of government it has become move or die.

Will Romney do any different? I hope so. But it will take a congress with the same thoughts of reducing its power for that to happen

I am not holding my breath

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Why the Economy Will Never Recover with Obama as President

Sucks that it did, then.

I'm selling a house next week for $125,000 that I gave $200,000 for six years ago. Are you telling me the economy has recovered and I shouldn't sell at this price?

Personally, I'm not sure we will recover without a great deal of pain first. Claiming we have already recovered makes me wonder if we are even talking about the same subject.

It's just the liberals way of redefining what's normal. If they can get you to accept that 8% unemployment is normal or that being under water in your mortgage is simply the result of an artificial housing bubble, then they can claim the economy has recovered.

[wmw999 2,123]

I don't like 8% unemployment being normal (and don't think it is). However, depending on when and where the house was bought, then yes, being underwater would exactly be the result of a housing bubble. Talk to people who bought baseball cards and Power Ranger toys in the early 1990's about bubbles, as well as anyone else who bought when the market was hot.

Hot markets come from in part from talk and publicity, making something extra desirable. There have been bubbles for years, probably as long as there have been economies.

BTW -- being underwater on your house absolutely sucks, because even if you didn't buy for bubble reasons, you get screwed.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jpjc2000 0]

Calling THIS a recovery...WOW!

[Gravitymaster 0]

Those were just 2 examples. For over 60 years, GDP averaged around 3.3%. The second quarter of this year it was about 1.3%. I would like to understand what basis someone has for calling this a recovered economy.

[wmw999 2,123]

I don't think anyone calls it recovered. Recovering, maybe.

Do we want the fastest possible recovery, without regards for the basis, or do we want one that is built on a solid foundation? My knowledge of economics is not huge, but I'd say that the "boom years" when the housing market was bubbling weren't any better for the country's long-term economic health than were the tech bubble before it, or the bubble of the late 20's.

Bubbles pop. They're invigorating at the time, but sometimes a healthy slow growth is a better alternative.

I'm not convinced that we're on a healthy slow growth pattern (slow is accurate, though). But I'm quite sure that there's too much manipulation of money as an end in and of itself going on, without the actual production of goods and/or human-scale services (i.e. something besides manipulating money) being delivered. I'd like to see more of the second, particularly goods and services that are destined for middle-class people, and not just to deliver increasing amounts of personal service to those who can afford pretty much whatever they want.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

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>Why the Economy Will Never Recover with Obama as President

Sucks that it did, then.

There you go using numbers and facts again Bill.

Some people are proud that they believe what they believe regardless of the facts.

Bring all the facts you have. This is what I know. My neighbor is a small business owner and he is worried. My son is a small business owner and he is worried. My oldest son works in construction and he is angry because the open borders negatively effect his income because Mexicans will work for less money. My son-in-law is a programmer for a major bank. He says he is writing contingency program plans for economic collapse.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I don't think anyone calls it recovered. Recovering, maybe.

Actually, someone did say that in post#2. Then someone else agreed with them and threw in an insult about people refusing to believe facts, while presenting none of their own.

[DanG 1]

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He's very erratic. Nobody knows what he will do next.

Yeah, what businesses need is someone who's positions are stable, rock solid, unchanging! Someone like, um...Mitt Romney?

- Dan G