Venezuela bans private gun ownership

[SkyPiggie 0]

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Yes, SkyPiggie, I'd turn them in, w/o tears and screaming
For what else than hunting do I need a gun?

You don't see any injustice in having to give up your sport and possessions because of what some criminals do? That's very... um... subservient of you. I was going to say "sheep-like", but as a piggie myself, I don't want to slander my fellow barn-yard animals.

How would turning in your lawfully owned, stored and used hunting firearms help prevent crime?

And if you believe that turning in your guns would be good for society, then why don't you just go ahead and do it right now? If you believe in that argument, then the mere fact that you own them now means that you believe you are a already a detriment and a danger to society. You're causing harm by increasing the possibility of crime. In fact, by continuing to possess those guns while believing they're a negative to society, means that you just don't care about your fellow countrymen. You're selfish and want to keep your arms, despite the fact that you believe they're bad. So you should do the right thing and turn them in right now. Don't wait for the government to make it a mandate. Walk your talk. Turn 'em all in.

[christelsabine 1]

I do what I wanna do, dear - just stop talking about things you do not understand. Piggie.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 2,427]

Your one warning. No PA's.

[JohnRich 4]

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I do what I wanna do, dear - just stop talking about things you do not understand.

It would seem that Skypiggie asked you too many hard, logical questions, for which you have no hard logical answers. So instead you claim weakly that she "doesn't understand". Actually, I think Skypiggie understands your position perfectly, and called you out for it. But instead of explaining what you claim to be misunderstanding, and clearing up the contradictions in your position, you take the low road in response. Everyone has noticed. Skypiggie wins.

[christelsabine 1]

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I do what I wanna do, dear - just stop talking about things you do not understand.

It would seem that Skypiggie asked you too many hard, logical questions, for which you have no hard logical answers. So instead you claim weakly that she "doesn't understand". Actually, I think Skypiggie understands your position perfectly, and called you out for it. But instead of explaining what you claim to be misunderstanding, and clearing up the contradictions in your position, you take the low road in response. Everyone has noticed. Skypiggie wins.

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Yes, SkyPiggie, I'd turn them in, w/o tears and screaming.

For what else than hunting do I need a gun?

THAT was my answer before. Seems, he was not satisfied with it? Perhaps, he just should have read it a little better - so that would've been enough to enlighten him.

His *questions* are far from beeing "hard" or even "logical" - it was just blowing something out of proportion.

This is SC, means it's easier to ignore something and follow your own ideas.

I'm doing the same (from time to time ).

"If everybody has noticed?" Who gives a sh*t??

"If Piggie wins?" - see above -

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[davjohns 1]

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Your one warning. No PA's.

Instant replay, please? I see where piggie was slightly taunting, but in pursuit of a valid argument. Unless indicating an aversion to calling someone 'sheep-like' is a PA, I missed it.

Not trying to be adversarial. I truly don't see the PA.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

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I do what I wanna do, dear - just stop talking about things you do not understand. Piggie.

I'm going to side with the pig and John on this one.

The question was: If possession of firearms by individuals is against your values in any way, why do you own a firearm? (I think I caught the flavor)

I think it is a valid question. It's one of the reasons I can't respect Dianne Fienstein. She is a devout opponent of private ownership of firearms, but has one herself.

Please don't argue that you would give up yours if everyone else gave up theirs. 1. Everyone will not. Only law-abiding people will. And some of those will hold onto them to protect against the criminals. 2. There will still be a disparity in safety. The weak will be greater prey to the strong. (God made men. Samuel Colt made them equal.)

So, you did dodge the question and demean piggie in the process. I think your answer (re-worded for clarity) was: "I say one thing and do another".

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kelpdiver 2]

then there's the secondary question about her claims to have (illegally) purchased a gun in Florida. For what? Seems inconsistent with her claimed beliefs. Was this for hunting crocs? Or was it just made up?

[christelsabine 1]

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I do what I wanna do, dear - just stop talking about things you do not understand. Piggie.

I'm going to side with the pig and John on this one.

The question was: If possession of firearms by individuals is against your values in any way, why do you own a firearm? (I think I caught the flavor)

I think it is a valid question. It's one of the reasons I can't respect Dianne Fienstein. She is a devout opponent of private ownership of firearms, but has one herself.

Please don't argue that you would give up yours if everyone else gave up theirs. 1. Everyone will not. Only law-abiding people will. And some of those will hold onto them to protect against the criminals. 2. There will still be a disparity in safety. The weak will be greater prey to the strong. (God made men. Samuel Colt made them equal.)

So, you did dodge the question and demean piggie in the process. I think your answer (re-worded for clarity) was: "I say one thing and do another".

You and I live in free countries, so you may be on someones side as long as you like

USoA:
Weapons for (nearly) everybody. Your choice. Your tragedies on daily basis, your dead bodies. Your top rankings....

*You* seem to need them.

Germany:
Weapons only for hunters (which did a hard 9 months work reading, learning, trainings, lots of examinations, spending thousands of EUROs) - they may keep them, like I do. For hunting. Additionally, at any time the police could pop up at my door to control where my toys are stored and how safe!

And there it ends. No weapons for self defense.

*We* do not need them in daily life.

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"I say one thing and do another"

Wrong. I always said the same like shown above under "Germany"



PS:
Your above points 1) and 2) cannot be applied in same pattern from the USofA to Germany. And Sam Colt is not our hero.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[davjohns 1]

OK. You at least got a laugh out of me.

I plan to visit Germany during my next assignment (Belgium). I'll be interested to see a place where nobody needs the right to defend themselves. :)

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[christelsabine 1]

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OK. You at least got a laugh out of me.

I plan to visit Germany during my next assignment (Belgium). I'll be interested to see a place where nobody needs the right to defend themselves. :)

Have a nice trip!

Don't you worry. Most visitors/travellers from overseas tend to come back home in safe condition.
Spa in Belgium is a wonderful DZ, give it a try!

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[davjohns 1]

I'm having trouble finding crime stats for Germany that are analogous to the US. Nation Master has them, but they are sometimes raw numbers rather than per capita numbers. Still, it looks like Germany surely does have a low rate of firearms crimes and homicides. But you guys are doing drugs like crazy! Which probably makes it a good thing that you don't have many guns. :) And the overall crime rate seems very high. Actually, #1 on one of the charts. It appears that property crime is the problem.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[christelsabine 1]

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I'm having trouble finding crime stats for Germany that are analogous to the US. Nation Master has them, but they are sometimes raw numbers rather than per capita numbers. Still, it looks like Germany surely does have a low rate of firearms crimes and homicides. But you guys are doing drugs like crazy! Which probably makes it a good thing that you don't have many guns. :) And the overall crime rate seems very high. Actually, #1 on one of the charts. It appears that property crime is the problem.

NationMasters site shows quite interesting figures.

Regarding drug offences, you are right. Especially in big(ger) cities, it's becoming a problem. Drugs and property crimes are walking hand in hand.

And there still is the problem of illegal guns - there are too many in Germany.

Hence, I dislike every gun in private/unauthorized hands.

Anyhow, visiting Europe is no death verdict. Like everywhere in the world, you do not need to show your Rolex (with brilliants, of course) at every corner in the red light district at 4am ... and you'll be just fine!

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[bakerjan 0]

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why are you that concerned?

Why are you concerned about why he's concerned?

Do you never worry about what happens to other people outside your own borders?

Of course, I do. But rarely caring about their weapons

And disarmed as we are, we poor little Germans, I just do welcome every decision to ban weapons, wherever that country might be.

You should study your own history. I may not remember right but when we studied the Third Reich in school we learned that one of the first things Hitler did when he got power was ban all gun ownership by private citizens.

[christelsabine 1]

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why are you that concerned?

Why are you concerned about why he's concerned?

Do you never worry about what happens to other people outside your own borders?

Of course, I do. But rarely caring about their weapons

And disarmed as we are, we poor little Germans, I just do welcome every decision to ban weapons, wherever that country might be.

You should study your own history. I may not remember right but when we studied the Third Reich in school we learned that one of the first things Hitler did when he got power was ban all gun ownership by private citizens.

What I said: Disarmed. And your smart point is ....????
I do not see any point in your reply. Troll.

Your post is BS, just shooting from "the hip" w/o any background.

Try again.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm having trouble finding crime stats for Germany that are analogous to the US. Nation Master has them, but they are sometimes raw numbers rather than per capita numbers. Still, it looks like Germany surely does have a low rate of firearms crimes and homicides. But you guys are doing drugs like crazy! Which probably makes it a good thing that you don't have many guns. :) And the overall crime rate seems very high. Actually, #1 on one of the charts. It appears that property crime is the problem.

Even late at night, Berlin seems pretty safe.

Though you only have to go back a couple decades when machine guns kept one side of the city and (current) nation away from the other side. The integration process was a bit nasty as well. The city has a lot of memorial grounds.

[popsjumper 2]

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And disarmed as we are, we poor little Germans, I just do welcome every decision to ban weapons, wherever that country might be.

Ahhhh... a light comes on for me.
I can certainly understand that POV.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Everyone has noticed.

Again, please don't speak for me JR. You have no clue, and may not want ot know what I noticed.

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Skypiggie wins.

A contest? What was the prize?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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“Why are you in favor of other countries banning firearms for their citizenry, when you own firearms yourself?”

Can you explain what one has to do with the other?

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“Don't you think that other people should have the same freedom to own firearms that you have?”

The answer to that is quite obvious as it was implied earlier.

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“And I notice a contradiction in your post: you say you rarely care about their weapons…. If you don't care about weapons”

Did you notice that you changed “rarely care" to “don’t care”? There’s the contradiction.

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“You don't see any injustice in having to give up your sport and possessions because of what some criminals do?”

I’m not sure but does this mean that you wouldn’t? You’d be inviting a lot of trouble for yourself if you didn’t. And besides, not everybody cares enough one way or the other to get all upset over it.

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“How would turning in your lawfully owned, stored and used hunting firearms help prevent crime?”

I don’t see that it would, myself. Matter of fact, I think crime would increase somewhat.

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“And if you believe that turning in your guns would be good for society, then why don't you just go ahead and do it right now? If you believe in that argument, then the mere fact that you own them now means that you believe you are a already a detriment and a danger to society.”

Sorry, SKyPiggie. One does not follow the other.

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“You're selfish and want to keep your arms, despite the fact that you believe they're bad.”

Again, one doesn’t follow the other. My take is this: Guns are not good on the whole except for sport. I don’t particularly care for them. But I would want to keep them for sport AND defense. Does that make me selfish? If it does the so be it…I’m a selfish sucker that enjoys shooting sport and will defend my self when necessary.

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“Walk your talk”

I think you attributed more talk to her than what she actually did. My opinion.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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[
Anyhow, visiting Europe is no death verdict. Like everywhere in the world, you do not need to show your Rolex (with brilliants, of course) at every corner in the red light district at 4am ... and you'll be just fine!

I only know that I felt much, much safer there than here.

There was an attempt to rob me and my friend one time.....by 4 unknown American GIs with a gun in Heidelberg. We got all our stuff back two days later in Karlsruhe. The Polizei was efficient and very nice to us.

Somehow I can't picture Mr. Johns hanging out in the red light district...regardless of the irony of his name.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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USoA:
Weapons for (nearly) everybody. Your choice. Your tragedies on daily basis, your dead bodies. Your top rankings....

Relatively speaking it's not a big deal. At the rate we're going it's going to take a thousand years to kill as many people as Germans did when they had the chance with disarmed populations last century.

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And there it ends. No weapons for self defense.

And there it ended for the 9 or 10 million disarmed civilians Germany killed - some whose guns were registered to comply with laws passed by the Weimar government and collected later, some in Eastern Europe that complied with their governments laws and were then slaughtered.

[popsjumper 2]

I'm not sure I like the idea of bringing all that into the discussion but I do see a point in it:

In countries where personal firearms are commonplace, it's less likely that the goobermint will turn on you like that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[bakerjan 0]

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why are you that concerned?

Why are you concerned about why he's concerned?

Do you never worry about what happens to other people outside your own borders?

Of course, I do. But rarely caring about their weapons

And disarmed as we are, we poor little Germans, I just do welcome every decision to ban weapons, wherever that country might be.

You should study your own history. I may not remember right but when we studied the Third Reich in school we learned that one of the first things Hitler did when he got power was ban all gun ownership by private citizens.

What I said: Disarmed. And your smart point is ....????
I do not see any point in your reply. Troll.

Your post is BS, just shooting from "the hip" w/o any background.

Try again.

Okay. I try again.

My point is that it is not good when a government disarms the people because then people cannot stop there government from doing horrible things. Even Canada lets people have rifles just not handguns.

When Hitler disarmed the Germany people, they lost there power to fight the horrible things he did and many millions of Germans, Poles, Russians and other Euros died because of it, even some Canadians.

I am sorry I did not say that at first, I thought you knew.

[christelsabine 1]

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why are you that concerned?

Why are you concerned about why he's concerned?

Do you never worry about what happens to other people outside your own borders?

Of course, I do. But rarely caring about their weapons

And disarmed as we are, we poor little Germans, I just do welcome every decision to ban weapons, wherever that country might be.

You should study your own history. I may not remember right but when we studied the Third Reich in school we learned that one of the first things Hitler did when he got power was ban all gun ownership by private citizens.

What I said: Disarmed. And your smart point is ....????
I do not see any point in your reply. Troll.

Your post is BS, just shooting from "the hip" w/o any background.

Try again.

Okay. I try again.

My point is that it is not good when a government disarms the people because then people cannot stop there government from doing horrible things. Even Canada lets people have rifles just not handguns.

When Hitler disarmed the Germany people, they lost there power to fight the horrible things he did and many millions of Germans, Poles, Russians and other Euros died because of it, even some Canadians.

I am sorry I did not say that at first, I thought you knew.

Yes, dear. I knew. What I learned in school. Even some of you North Americans still believe we modified our history: We did not. We have been teached every single bloody detail.

OTOH, we tremendously increased our college education.

How about yours?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mnealtx 0]

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Yes, dear. I knew. What I learned in school. Even some of you North Americans still believe we modified our history: We did not. We have been teached every single bloody detail.

OTOH, we tremendously increased our college education.

How about yours?

We're ok - we learn about the Holocaust *before* college.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706