Fracking for oil

[steve1 5]

I now live in North East Montana on the Backen oil field. There's an oil boom going on. Some oil workers are making over a $100,000 a year, but are homeless. Some live in man camps. Things are changing fast.

We had another oil boom about thirty-five years ago. It became cheaper to buy oil, so the boom quit.

New technology created a new way to get oil that was previously too expensive to go after. This process is called "fracking". Chemicals, water, and sand are pumped under high pressure into the ground. This makes it easier to extract the oil.

One argument is that this is perfectly safe.

Another argument is that this will ruin the groundwater.

The oil boom thirty years ago ruined much of the water in my region. Is saying that Fracking is safe, just more double talk?

[DiverMike 5]

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Is saying that Fracking is safe, just more double talk?

Of course it is.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[airdvr 197]

Same oil boom happening here in Ohio. Can't tell if fracking is safe only because I can only go by what I've read in the local publications and it's clear both sides have an agenda, but Ohio has needed this influx of money for a long time.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,400]

>Is saying that Fracking is safe, just more double talk?

Yep. It can be done safely, but so far there is almost no pressure/incentive to do so. There have been several cases of serious groundwater contamination from fracking.

[rushmc 18]

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>Is saying that Fracking is safe, just more double talk?

Yep. It can be done safely, but so far there is almost no pressure/incentive to do so. There have been several cases of serious groundwater contamination from fracking.

Would you please send some links to these cases?

I know the EPA got smacked down in court regarding the fracking issues

But if there are cases I would like to learn about them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bertt 0]

There was this discussion in the forums last year:
//www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4103332;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[billvon 2,400]

Here's a quick list:

1987 - Kaiser Exploration - fracking fluid found in James Parson's water well in Jackson County, West Virginia

2006 - natural gas well - high methane concentrations found in Clark, Wyoming wells

2009 - Cabot Oil and Gas - 13 wells in Dimock, Pennsylvania contaminated with methane. One exploded. Oil company agreed to compensate residents and pipe in uncontaminated water.

2011 - Encana - contaminated wells in Pavilion, Wyoming - fracking contaminants including gasoline, diesel fuel, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, naphthalenes, isopropanol and glycol found near gas rig.

[rushmc 18]

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Here's a quick list:

1987 - Kaiser Exploration - fracking fluid found in James Parson's water well in Jackson County, West Virginia

2006 - natural gas well - high methane concentrations found in Clark, Wyoming wells

2009 - Cabot Oil and Gas - 13 wells in Dimock, Pennsylvania contaminated with methane. One exploded. Oil company agreed to compensate residents and pipe in uncontaminated water.

2011 - Encana - contaminated wells in Pavilion, Wyoming - fracking contaminants including gasoline, diesel fuel, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, naphthalenes, isopropanol and glycol found near gas rig.

Why no links?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Airgump 1]

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>Is saying that Fracking is safe, just more double talk?

Yep. It can be done safely, but so far there is almost no pressure/incentive to do so. There have been several cases of serious groundwater contamination from fracking.

hey bill, haven't seen ya around the oil patch in the 30 odd years that i've been in and out of it. where did you get your petroleum engineering sheep skin from? might want to stick to your bailiwick of what ever it is you do.

enclosed are two pics of the same well. you can throw a rock from the wellhead and hit either of these two houses. the well's been there for several years now and the water still is good to go.

this well is about 1/2 mile from our water well and no effects there either. this is not the only well in this area either.

[Airgump 1]

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Here's a quick list:

1987 - Kaiser Exploration - fracking fluid found in James Parson's water well in Jackson County, West Virginia

2006 - natural gas well - high methane concentrations found in Clark, Wyoming wells

2009 - Cabot Oil and Gas - 13 wells in Dimock, Pennsylvania contaminated with methane. One exploded. Oil company agreed to compensate residents and pipe in uncontaminated water.

2011 - Encana - contaminated wells in Pavilion, Wyoming - fracking contaminants including gasoline, diesel fuel, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, naphthalenes, isopropanol and glycol found near gas rig.

there are many H2S wells all over the US. we have our fair share of them in OK too. kind of funny when the locals start trying to shake down the oilmen/women (my sis is an industry engineer) on wells that have been contaminated for years before the oil field starts exploration and wouldn't ya know the second that derrick is laid over and the rig is hauled off the company finds itself being sued for the old well they had nothing to do with.

kinda like the spray and pray antics that the ambulance chasers persue in skydiving that you're so fond of.

gee methane found in a well, guess the only way that can get there is those evil, greedy, oil field hands.

tar pits in downtown LA, man those guys must have had a time machine to pull that one off!!!

[rushmc 18]

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Here's a quick list:

1987 - Kaiser Exploration - fracking fluid found in James Parson's water well in Jackson County, West Virginia

2006 - natural gas well - high methane concentrations found in Clark, Wyoming wells

2009 - Cabot Oil and Gas - 13 wells in Dimock, Pennsylvania contaminated with methane. One exploded. Oil company agreed to compensate residents and pipe in uncontaminated water.

2011 - Encana - contaminated wells in Pavilion, Wyoming - fracking contaminants including gasoline, diesel fuel, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, naphthalenes, isopropanol and glycol found near gas rig.

there are many H2S wells all over the US. we have our fair share of them in OK too. kind of funny when the locals start trying to shake down the oilmen/women (my sis is an industry engineer) on wells that have been contaminated for years before the oil field starts exploration and wouldn't ya know the second that derrick is laid over and the rig is hauled off the company finds itself being sued for the old well they had nothing to do with.

kinda like the spray and pray antics that the ambulance chasers persue in skydiving that you're so fond of.

gee methane found in a well, guess the only way that can get there is those evil, greedy, oil field hands.

tar pits in downtown LA, man those guys must have had a time machine to pull that one off!!!

I know of two EPA cases that were tossed

I suspect that one of more of the ones he listed may be those tossed

Might be why he did not want to provide any links

Gives more info to search against

At this point, I believe there are no confirmed cases of fracking contaminating underground water sources

But, I know that can change

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[loumeinhart 0]

Directional drilling 15-10K down is well below the water table. There are reports online of backflow leaking into water tables. USGS reports that in 2005 20% of total US water usage came from groundwater sources.

There are recent claims regarding earthquakes in ytown Oh caused by fracking. I'm not a geologist/seismo but fracturing through perforated pipe 17K below the surface to bust some shale is not going to cause an earthquake.

[loumeinhart 0]

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The oil boom thirty years ago ruined much of the water in my region

I'm sorry about your water. My hometown of Massillon Ohio has some of the best tasting water around. I'm sorry that your water has been ruined, where does your community get their water from now??

[mnealtx 0]

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Here's a quick list:

1987 - Kaiser Exploration - fracking fluid found in James Parson's water well in Jackson County, West Virginia

2006 - natural gas well - high methane concentrations found in Clark, Wyoming wells

2009 - Cabot Oil and Gas - 13 wells in Dimock, Pennsylvania contaminated with methane. One exploded. Oil company agreed to compensate residents and pipe in uncontaminated water.

2011 - Encana - contaminated wells in Pavilion, Wyoming - fracking contaminants including gasoline, diesel fuel, benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, naphthalenes, isopropanol and glycol found near gas rig.

Then why did the EPA say they didn't know of any cases of contamination caused by fracking?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[swoopgaz 0]

Fracking is used in coal seem gas mining which has been done in the states for years and they are trying to start in here in Australia which we are trying to prevent. Fracking is seriously harmfull to the environment. Fracking involves pumping a shitload of chemicals into the ground which contaminates the ground and water supplies. try and get a hold of a documentary called 'GasLand', not sure wether you can find it online to download you view on youtube etc, but it will show you just how bad fracking is.

[mnealtx 0]

That's been pretty thoroughly debunked already.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Directional drilling 15-10K down is well below the water table. There are reports online of backflow leaking into water tables. USGS reports that in 2005 20% of total US water usage came from groundwater sources.

There are recent claims regarding earthquakes in ytown Oh caused by fracking. I'm not a geologist/seismo but fracturing through perforated pipe 17K below the surface to bust some shale is not going to cause an earthquake.

It wasn't the fracking itself that caused the earthquakes in Ohio. It was a wastewater well. They put the leftover stuff in a deep well under very high pressure. The fault site was right near the waste well, and the quakes were directly related to how much waste material was being punped down.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ohio-earthquake-likely-caused-by-fracking

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[loumeinhart 0]

I recall the same thing happened somewhere out west?

[adagen 0]

Fracking's being linked to an earth tremor in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9207396/Fracking-caused-Blackpool-earthquakes-QandA.html

A quick google shows a few studies linking it to earth tremors, not just that one incident.

Anne

[kallend 1,623]

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I'm not a geologist/seismo but fracturing through perforated pipe 17K below the surface to bust some shale is not going to cause an earthquake.

If you were a geologist you'd know that fracking has been definitively linked to earth tremors. All minor (so far).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[loumeinhart 0]

If by fracking you mean high pressure waste water then yes. Fracking is when charges are set in the shale and I don't believe that process has been specifically linked to tremors. Maybe you can google that for me..

Fracturing is just one part of the mining process.

[skypuppy 1]

my understanding is that the thousands of vertical feet of impervious stratum between the oil layers they're trying to frack and the water table much higher makes it highly unlikely that they would contaminate. Possibly if there is a breach in the pipe they're drawing oil and/or wastewater out of, but much more likely to have contamination from surface run-off of waste-water lagoons or even old gas station storage tanks up near the surface that have deteriorated. Or leaks in pipelines, or tankers are more likely to cause problems.

Fracking has been going on since the 50's, it's only lately the enviro-goons have gotten turned on to it and started bad-mouthing.

As far as the fracking chemicals contained in the water they inject down, the concentrations are so low percentage-wise, that they really don't enter into it.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[masterblaster72 0]

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That's been pretty thoroughly debunked already.

Yeah, those people whose water lights on fire are just in it for the $. There was no pollution of well water in Dimock either -- it's all a big publicity stunt.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

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my understanding is that the thousands of vertical feet of impervious stratum between the oil layers they're trying to frack and the water table much higher makes it highly unlikely that they would contaminate.

An independent university study found last year that the fracked methane from those deep layers has polluted well water. http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/09/news/economy/natural_gas_fracking_duke/index.htm

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Fracking has been going on since the 50's,

That's a favorite argument of those who defend fracking. It doesn't change the fact that horizontal drilling is a new technology.

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it's only lately the enviro-goons have gotten turned on to it and started bad-mouthing.

"enviro-goons" have little money at stake in this fight. Energy companies, on the other hand, do. Their lie machines are cranking. Here's an example. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1009530098/fracknation/posts/181944

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As far as the fracking chemicals contained in the water they inject down, the concentrations are so low percentage-wise, that they really don't enter into it.

There are streams in Colorado that have hundreds of times the benzene levels that legal limits allow. Benzene doesn't occur naturally.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rwieder 0]

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If by fracking you mean high pressure waste water then yes. Fracking is when charges are set in the shale and I don't believe that process has been specifically linked to tremors. Maybe you can google that for me..

Fracturing is just one part of the mining process.

Another example of someone who desn't have a clue what they're talking about.

When a "Grass Roots" well is drilled down to the surface casing TD, it is drilled to that depth for a reason. We take our orders from the Engineer assigned to the well, the TRRC, MMS, BLM etc...they are the ones who dictate how deep, and what type or "Blend" of cement to cement the surface casing in the annulus with. It's highly regulated. I generally ask, and recieve permission for at least 150% more cement above calculated to cement my surface pipe, and intermediate/production strings with and I generally prefer to return at least 75-100 bbls of cement to surface and maintain 100% returns throughout the entire job on the surface job. Obviously they (Engineers) have their arithmatic jacked up, because we are obviously not drilling the surface hole deep enough and not obtaining sufficient FIT (Formation Integrity Test) test before and after drilling out of the surface pipe and begin to drill the "Intermediate" section of the hole after NUBOPE packages, etc.... Another factor that needs to be thought out is that the fractures we drill into are vertical, not horizontal, thus the reason we drill horizontal wells so we can expose as many fracs as possible while the production section of the well is being drilled. Here's the problem, for far too many years Operators have been getting piss poor cement jobs on the surface, intermediate and production holes. this allows fluids from the well to channell to the surface and go where ever. Fracing hasn't a damn thing to do with it. If you dont ave an integral cament job on each string of pipe you run, expect problems. Generally after drilling the well we set a type "D" production packer inside casing, it allows everything you pump go into the formation and isolates everything from on top of the packer to surface from getting the fluids used for fracing to enter the "Back Side" of the well. More often than not, because of the terrible cement jobs that are performed we get communication vertically from the production hole channeled to ths surface. I've had several companies try to strong arm me into performing shit cement jobs, but I wont allow it, I do it right, it makes the big dogs mad, but I've never seen my name mentioned in any lawsuit and it's not gonna happen, I'll "Put the drag" on them before I'm forced to do something that isn't right. The Deep Water Horizon had a really shitty cement job to blame for the entire incident in the gulf not too long ago. Too bad 12 of my "Brothers" had to be vaporized because of the Operator's poor judgement.

The "Charges" you mentioned are done with perf guns and a wireline unit and charges are set off to perforate the casing to allow formation fluids to flow up the production string to the well head and be processed using all of the surface equipment we set before this part of the hydrocarbons and dry gas get to the surface. One can always determine how good the cement job is by running a CBL Cemet Bong Log) via wireline, it's just one more part of the operations that has been done away with because of the engineers not being old enough to know better. Most P.E.'s that sit in the office and design the well drilling Prog and casing designs are generally 32-34 years old and have never even set foot on a drilling rig and intentionally so, they don't want to be assoiciated with anything simply because "I wasn't there" Bastards, there so ignorant their balls haven't even dropped yet. And YES, hydro fracing has caused under ground blow outs, and mini earth quakes. Study the floors of the great lakes, that'll make a believer out of you, study the sink holes in Mississippi & Florida, that will only confirm what I'm speaking about here. It's high time we eradicate the moronic, tyranaical clowns in the 100 story buildings and put this stuff back into the field engineers hands, the problem will go away, I gaurentee it.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"