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jono

Oh the irony

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I have fallen off at speed with gear and I have fallen off at speed without gear. I felt a lot more comfortable after the 'with gear' incidents :ph34r:.
Helmet, gloves, jacket even for a trip around the block. I know how it feels to be pushed down a long, long cheese grater and have no need for reminding. :P

25 odd years on 2 wheels


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as much room as there is for morons apparently :S

not directed at you personally Mr Divot, just people like you



Is that the best you've got for a thinly veiled PA? Wear the brain bucket-it's cool. When I ride in helmet law states, or when conditions require, I wear one of mine. I'm just saying that it should be my choice. Luckily, in my home state it is.
You are only as strong as the prey you devour

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as much room as there is for morons apparently :S

not directed at you personally Mr Divot, just people like you



Is that the best you've got for a thinly veiled PA? Wear the brain bucket-it's cool. When I ride in helmet law states, or when conditions require, I wear one of mine. I'm just saying that it should be my choice. Luckily, in my home state it is.



Half the people in your home state can't SPELL helmet...










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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On the work bike, I always have a helmet on. Then again, I need something to hold the communications package and I'm also found riding in conditions that turn away most riders. I'm also in the saddle much more than all but the really hard core riders. It is an open face, although I also have a Shark full-face helmet that I can use. That one is typically saved for special occasions since I need to be able to "communicate" quickly and easily with people in high stress situations on occasion.

On my personal bike I mostly have a helmet on, although many times that helmet is my old Bonehead Mindwarp. No it doesn't have impact protection, but it will do OK for abrasion protection. Partially due to some neck problems I have and comfort.

In the past few years I've worked a number of motorcycle fatals. Two of them were riders wearing full face helmets. One saw the chin separate from the rest of the helmet, followed by his skull at the sinus cavity because he slammed into a SUV at a high rate of speed. His brain continued down the roadway for a surprisingly long distance (after it came out of his separated skull). The second was a guy with a full face that tried to beat a yellow light. He didn't and a car with a green light didn't see him coming, clipped him. He spun into another car stopped at the intersection and broke his neck. He even had on other leather protective gear.

Although I did work one recently where the rider would have been saved by a helmet...then again, he probably would have been saved if his BAC didn't come back with a number that is a respectable APR for a mortgage!

Moral of the story, riding a motorcycle is dangerous. Safety gear can save your life. If you're wearing so much gear that you stroke out from the heat then it didn't do any good. If you're not wearing any safety gear then the gear can't help at all.

More people would be saved by a higher level of rider training, the new riders but especially the ones who have been riding for a long time. They are some of the worst riders out there, since they have really bad habits and they have also lost some of the respect they need to keep of the road!
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Moral of the story, riding a motorcycle is dangerous. Safety gear can save your life. If you're wearing so much gear that you stroke out from the heat then it didn't do any good. If you're not wearing any safety gear then the gear can't help at all.

More people would be saved by a higher level of rider training, the new riders but especially the ones who have been riding for a long time. They are some of the worst riders out there, since they have really bad habits and they have also lost some of the respect they need to keep of the road!



Good post Dave.

Riding is not safe. As I said, there are two types of motorcyclists. Those who have crashed and those who have yet to crash. In the old days of skiing I never wore a helmet, but since working as a ski patroller where I had to deal with my share of head injuries (was lucky never to have a death, but deaths did occur, I was just lucky in my short 4 year patroller career). I wear a helmet now when I ski and twice in my life (once on a motorcycle, once on a mountain bike) I have crashed and hit my head and who knows what would have happened had I not been wearing a helmet. In my motorcycle crash (low sided on a tight mountain road), where I was wearing protection (my head) I was not hurt, where I lacked protection (not wearing leathers) I sustained injuries (some road rash, not too bad and also a cracked bone in my left elbow).

But you are 100% correct that many accidents can be prevented with proper and recurrent training. Years ago I took a Motorcycle Safety Foundation training course where they taught me emergency braking, counter steering, taught me where to position myself in traffic how how to drive in traffic (including riding over many obstacles on the road instead of trying to swerve around them). But one thing important they also taught me. They taught me that I needed to practice all the drills they showed me, every season. Just because they taught me about emergency braking and counter steering does not mean I could use them in an emergency situation. They taught me that I needed to practice my emergency braking and counter steering as much as possible (just like airline pilots practice their emergency procedures and why skydivers should practice their emergency procedure). I wonder how many old school motorcyclists have actually been formally trained in emergency braking, counter steering and where to position themselves in traffic for maximum viewing effectiveness for the cars around them.

PS: if you live in a jurisdiction where you pay for your own healthcare, then I am okay with people riding without their brain buckets (even though you will never catch me without mine on). But for those of us who do live in the nanny state where the public pays for our healthcare, I am in favor of mandatory helmet laws.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Years ago I took a Motorcycle Safety Foundation training course where they taught me emergency braking, counter steering, taught me where to position myself in traffic how how to drive in traffic (including riding over many obstacles on the road instead of trying to swerve around them).



Some other points to consider:

The MSF training is the highest level of training that most people ever seek out. The level of motorcycle training that you achieve through the first two levels of MSF training is the skydiving equivalent of graduating AFF. You know the basics, you can do some maneuvers and can operate in relative safety as long as nothing unusual occurs.

However, we all know that the unusual will occur. If you read this and ride, seek out further and more advanced training. Being the master of slow speed drills will make you a better rider at higher speeds.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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PS: if you live in a jurisdiction where you pay for your own healthcare, then I am okay with people riding without their brain buckets (even though you will never catch me without mine on). But for those of us who do live in the nanny state where the public pays for our healthcare, I am in favor of mandatory helmet laws.



Even aside from health insurance, un-helmeted riders (in states that permit it) make everyone's auto liability insurance premiums higher. In most US states, liability insurance is mandatory for anyone who owns a motor vehicle. If you own a car or truck in a state that does not have mandatory motorcycle helmet laws, your liability insurance premium will be higher, to offset the risk that the motorcyclist you might be involved in an accident with might be more seriously injured or killed because he wasn't wearing a helmet (and that therefore your insurance carrier will have to pay-out a larger amount on the resulting injury or wrongful death claim).

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PS: if you live in a jurisdiction where you pay for your own healthcare, then I am okay with people riding without their brain buckets (even though you will never catch me without mine on). But for those of us who do live in the nanny state where the public pays for our healthcare, I am in favor of mandatory helmet laws.



Even aside from health insurance, un-helmeted riders (in states that permit it) make everyone's auto liability insurance premiums higher. In most US states, liability insurance is mandatory for anyone who owns a motor vehicle. If you own a car or truck in a state that does not have mandatory motorcycle helmet laws, your liability insurance premium will be higher, to offset the risk that the motorcyclist you might be involved in an accident with might be more seriously injured or killed because he wasn't wearing a helmet (and that therefore your insurance carrier will have to pay-out a larger amount on the resulting injury or wrongful death claim).



Ridiculously fat-ass people are responsible for my health insurance climbing too. They're allowed the choice to be ridiculously fat-ass/obese, but I'm not allowed the choice to ride my bike without a helmet? Kinda messed up. I wear a helmet in SoCal because the law requires me to. I wear one in Nevada even when it's 120 in the shade because the law requires me to, but found myself nearly passing out and having to spend the day in a hotel so I could ride at night.
I rarely wear one in my homestate, because we're allowed to choose.

Motorcycle riding, like skydiving, is inherently dangerous. No one wants laws regulating swooping, freeflying, wingsuiting... but those same that would protest laws in skydiving endorse helmet laws for motorcycles?:S

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Motorcycle riding, like skydiving, is inherently dangerous. No one wants laws regulating swooping, freeflying, wingsuiting... but those same that would protest laws in skydiving endorse helmet laws for motorcycles?:S


I do, I'd like more rules regulating skydiving there's way to many people who need regulating in this sport. Fuckwitts that can't regulate themselves. this is not the sport of the 60's all radical and wild.


and divot, there was no veil there, I wasn't directing it to you as a PM on a singular level, just as a you and others like you type of deal unfortunately you're not alone in the crowd.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Squeak i got to whole heartily agree with you mate, its something across the pond i have never understood at times. Its like cutting your nose of to spite yourself and i just will never get it, its just so childish at times.

I now for a fact that My helmet saved my bloody life and prevented me dying in the crash i am recovering from. I have attached a picture of my lid( take a look) in this, so you can see what they do. I was in a accident with a lorry I hit his fuel tank and ruptured it damage to helmet above the visor is where my brains would have been pulled if it had not been there, much like my foot

I WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD FULL STOP >:(

Instead i managed to keep my bike from sliding under the wheels and being crushed and getting to the end of his trailer before we both ended in the ditch me and the bike[:/].

I split from the bike and hit the ditch at god now's what speed again it stopped me from being more seriously injured than just fractured C7 vertebrae so they are made for a reason. I Still have no memory of the accident just what the police told my wife. I lost 6 days, 5 days in surgery spent at a specialist hospital after being stabilized and transferred from the first.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9483441@N07/5902402964/

Even prior to the accident i used to get pissed seeing idiots not wearing bike gear, its worse now. Been riding bikes from 12 in motocross, so not new to bikes and injuries but first on the road. Use your sense instead of stubbornness wear a helmet,give yourself a fighting chance of surviving .

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun


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As a rider of 30 years I just can not imagine why anyone would ever rider without proper gear.

Personal choice my arse- think about the people that have to pick up the pieces:S




Proper gear is the thing. In the 20 years I lived in DeLnad and saw all the riders during Bike Week and Biketober Fest I don't think I EVER saw any one in shorts and flip-flops. Did they value their feet and legs more than their head?

Actually, I'm for the personal choice of whether or not to wear a helmet. Let's get Darwin back in the game. To paraphrase a sig line here, "Stupidity is self correcting."

Let's thin the herd.
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

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NEWS FLASH!:

I went riding last night, WITHOUT a helmet, and I survived. How you say?

I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules. I stayed alert to what traffic was doing and never insisted on my "right" to be somewhere, I saved the hot dogging for the grill, and focused on the job of avoiding a collision.

But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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NEWS FLASH!:

I went riding last night, WITHOUT a helmet, and I survived. How you say?

I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules. I stayed alert to what traffic was doing and never insisted on my "right" to be somewhere, I saved the hot dogging for the grill, and focused on the job of avoiding a collision.

But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.




It sounds like you're a good example of what AggieDave advocates:
"More people would be saved by a higher level of rider training, the new riders but especially the ones who have been riding for a long time. They are some of the worst riders out there, since they have really bad habits and they have also lost some of the respect they need to keep of the road! "

Are there any statistics on the kind of bike that are in accidents the most? It seems to me that big bike (like Harleys) are in fewer accidents than the "rice rockets." If so, is it the bike or the personality of the one who buys a particular kind of bike?
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

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I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules.



Dayum.[:/]
Have you also quit skydiving?:|
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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>and leave me to make the adult decisions I'm capable of.

No one is saying you can't make those decisions, just that you're making a bad one. It's like a guy who wants to live a long life who smokes three packs a day, or a skydiver who wants to swoop who buys the smallest canopy he can at 100 jumps and starts toggle hooking, or a teenager who has frequent unprotected sex with guys she meets in bars.

Can they make those calls? Yes. Are they dumb? Yes.

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I saved the hot dogging for the grill. But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.



Was the Barbecue that rough that you needed a cup? LOL ... tough crowd you are hanging with.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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NEWS FLASH!:

I went riding last night, WITHOUT a helmet, and I survived. How you say?

I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules. I stayed alert to what traffic was doing and never insisted on my "right" to be somewhere, I saved the hot dogging for the grill, and focused on the job of avoiding a collision.

But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.



The Hurt Report is still somewhat of a standard.
The glaring points are:
~young motorcyclists are by far more likely to be injured.
~Street bikes have a significantly lower risk (due in great part to the personalities that ride them)
~Crotch rockets have a significantly higher ratio of incident (again, due to age and the personalities that ride them)
~Alcohol plays a factor in +50% of motorcycle accidents.
60% of accidents havent been wearing helmets, and of that number, 53% didn't expect an accident.

Other data:
Sport bikes made up less than 10 percent of registered motorcycles in 2005 but accounted for over 25 percent of rider deaths according to The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

Short answer: young and wreckless, old and drunk make up (by far) most of the statistics.
Common sense suggests the same.


there's a lot more there...but those are salient points.

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NEWS FLASH!:

I went riding last night, WITHOUT a helmet, and I survived. How you say?

I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules. I stayed alert to what traffic was doing and never insisted on my "right" to be somewhere, I saved the hot dogging for the grill, and focused on the job of avoiding a collision.

But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.



You want to make a bet that the guy who died in the protest ride that started this thred, thought he was riding safely, responsibly and thought he would be able to avoid an accident because he was being "SAFE"??
The point you seem to missing is that sure, you might be able to go riding 100 times without wearing OR needing a helmet but it's the 101th time that you go riding and some dickhead cuts you off or runs an intersection and no matter how good a rider you are, you are unable to avoid hitting the deck. Now what smart ass???
Did you know that top GP riders in the world are banned by their sponsors from riding a bike on public roads because it's considered too risky for the money they have invested in their rider??
Like I wrote before, thay don't call them accidents because you know they are about to happen.
Seems like like some people are just too stubborn or stupid to relize that a wearing a helmet is safer than not.
Remember you don't stop laughing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop laughing.

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NEWS FLASH!:

I went riding last night, WITHOUT a helmet, and I survived. How you say?

I rode responsible, consumed no intoxicants, road within my abilities and following traffic rules. I stayed alert to what traffic was doing and never insisted on my "right" to be somewhere, I saved the hot dogging for the grill, and focused on the job of avoiding a collision.

But you're all right, I should have had a helmet. And kneepads. Maybe a cup. And a mouth guard for sure.



I'll take your liver.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Even aside from health insurance, un-helmeted riders (in states that permit it) make everyone's auto liability insurance premiums higher. In most US states, liability insurance is mandatory for anyone who owns a motor vehicle. If you own a car or truck in a state that does not have mandatory motorcycle helmet laws, your liability insurance premium will be higher, to offset the risk that the motorcyclist you might be involved in an accident with might be more seriously injured or killed because he wasn't wearing a helmet (and that therefore your insurance carrier will have to pay-out a larger amount on the resulting injury or wrongful death claim).



Might want to check the facts Andy.

More likely that motorcycle accidents are the fault of an automobile driver and your rates are higher because the auto driver(and his insurer) is liable for damages.
Helmet laws are in place soley for the benefit of those auto insurers who are liable for damages caused by their customers.

Blue Skies,
Dan

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