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likearock

How much responsibility does Terry Jones have for the massacre in Afghanistan

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Probably for a long time. No one would kill you for saying that much less start a riot and kill multiple people based on their nationality and race. You might get your ass kicked at worse.



Oh, I don't think I would have come out of that one that easy.

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Hell, we saw videos of Muslims celebrating in the street after 9/11 and I don't recall an organized group of Americans burning mosques and slaughtering Muslims.



You missed the ongoing war in Iraq?

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Stop trying to compare us to them. There is no comparison.



There is no us and them. That's the exact attitude that's getting people killed.

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He did not incite a riot. He was no where near Afghanistan.



Following that logic, Charlie Manson did not commit murder. He was nowhere near the Tate estate. Maybe, Hitler isn't responsible for the Holocaust. Did he personally round up the Jews and gas them? As far as I know, he was nowhere near the Warsaw Ghetto or Auschwitz.
Jones damn well knew that his action would cause an unwelcome effect. The butterfly effect comes into play here.
Would you feel differently if the dead were all American soldiers?
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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I think whoever it was that burnt a copy of Mein Kapmpf should be held accountable for the Holocaust. It is obviously their fault.

Okay, okay, Godwin - I know...



Windsor, I believe in that case it was the Nazis themselves doing the book burning although probably not copies of Mein Kampf.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Your assumptions are completely unfounded and incorrect.

What "assumptions" are those? The one based on your comment "Of course I'm sure you will find a way to blame the US for starting that war too." How should I interpret that, other than by concluding that you are saying that because I think Operation Ajax was a mistake, I must be anti-US across the board?

Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

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Oh, I don't think I would have come out of that one that easy.




You don't think you would have come out of that one that easy. Even though no one has been murdered for saying it, even that Prof. Churchlll who called all of the 9/11 victims "Little Eichmans". He seems to be alive and kicking and still running his mouth off.

The Iraq war is a war. A little different between a riot in NYC where we behead cabbies because they might be Muslims. I don't expect you to understand nuances though.

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There is no us and them. That's the exact attitude that's getting people killed.



No, the problem is that there is an Us and Them, and that the liberals among Us with their theories of cultural relativity, want Us to believe that our culture is not different or exceptional. It is.

Obama is one pf the greatest perpetrator of this lie. You no doubt voted for him.

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Jones damn well knew that his action would cause an unwelcome effect. The butterfly effect comes into play here.



If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?

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Obama is one pf the greatest perpetrator of this lie. You no doubt voted for him.



I'm Canadian, but I don't expect you to understand nuances though. :P

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No, the problem is that there is an Us and Them,



So, the thousands who protested peacefully. Are they US or Them?

(It's not as if the US doesn't have examples of peaceful protest turning violent)

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If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?



If an American "Leader" claims that there will be a mushroom cloud if you don't invade a country. Should we blame him or the CIA when he invades and kills thousands based on "false information"?

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Jones damn well knew that his action would cause an unwelcome effect. The butterfly effect comes into play here.



If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?


Historically.. it has been those good upstanding white christians who have banned, burned and gone ape shit over that book and others.:S:S:S Other idiots have used it to do evil deeds... like Mark David Chapman used it as part of his excuse for shooting John Lennon>:(

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We're not going to agree on this; yet having thought this through, I feel strongly that Jones shares a certain amount of moral responsibility, and should be condemned for that.



Do you see anyone rushing to give him kudos for this actions? The consensus opinion is moral condemnation.

but at best, you could give him 10 or 20% blame. In our country, you get to say stupid shit just for the sake of being an asshole. For a significant portion of Islam, you can get jailed, beaten, or killed for naming a bear Mohamed, or drawing him. But we don't have to lower our freedom of speech to the level their religious leadership deems proper.

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[Reply] I feel strongly that Jones shares a certain amount of moral responsibility, and should be condemned for that.



With this statement I have no problem. I agree that the guy is a jerk and deserves some moral contempt. I can't help but think that's what he wants.

My issue again is treating him as if his statements were the proximate cause of the violence. He certainly had some role - even if he was the convenient excuse.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Historically.. it has been those good upstanding white christians who have banned, burned and gone ape shit over that book and others.



Yes and they were assholes, but that's legal to do in this country and certainly no one rioted and killed over it. Furthermore if anyone did riot and kill over it, you wouldn't defend them

I don't like it when someone burns a flag, but I don't have the right to cut their head off over it. Nor should I.

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Historically.. it has been those good upstanding white christians who have banned, burned and gone ape shit over that book and others.



Yes and they were assholes, but that's legal to do in this country and certainly no one rioted and killed over it. Furthermore if anyone did riot and kill over it, you wouldn't defend them

I don't like it when someone burns a flag, but I don't have the right to cut their head off over it. Nor should I.



I would say that yes our fundies have the legal right... but in THEIR sandbox....
THEIR fundies its also a religious duty and a legal right to do exactly as they are doing.



















i

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If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?



If an American "Leader" claims that there will be a mushroom cloud if you don't invade a country. Should we blame him or the CIA when he invades and kills thousands based on "false information"?



The American leader along with most members of both parties in the Senate and House who were saying hte same things before Bush was even a canidate?

That false info?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Historically.. it has been those good upstanding white christians who have banned, burned and gone ape shit over that book and others.



Yes and they were assholes, but that's legal to do in this country and certainly no one rioted and killed over it. Furthermore if anyone did riot and kill over it, you wouldn't defend them

I don't like it when someone burns a flag, but I don't have the right to cut their head off over it. Nor should I.


I would say that yes our fundies have the legal right... but in THEIR sandbox....
THEIR fundies its also a religious duty and a legal right to do exactly as they are doing.


Exactly. There is a big difference between US and THEM.

***OK, I had to read that a couple of times to understand that fundies meant fundamentals, but once I figured it out the rest of the post made sense.


Can you post a glossary in your profile. ;)

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If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?



If an American "Leader" claims that there will be a mushroom cloud if you don't invade a country. Should we blame him or the CIA when he invades and kills thousands based on "false information"?



The American leader along with most members of both parties in the Senate and House who were saying hte same things before Bush was even a canidate?

That false info?



YES.. the highly cherry picked shit that was disseminated by THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH of goverment that controls the flow of information as national security.

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Historically.. it has been those good upstanding white christians who have banned, burned and gone ape shit over that book and others.



Yes and they were assholes, but that's legal to do in this country and certainly no one rioted and killed over it. Furthermore if anyone did riot and kill over it, you wouldn't defend them

I don't like it when someone burns a flag, but I don't have the right to cut their head off over it. Nor should I.


I would say that yes our fundies have the legal right... but in THEIR sandbox....
THEIR fundies its also a religious duty and a legal right to do exactly as they are doing.


Exactly. There is a big difference between US and THEM.

***OK, I had to read that a couple of times to understand that fundies meant fundamentals, but once I figured it out the rest of the post made sense.


Can you post a glossary in your profile. ;)


The fundie moron in Florida.. knew exactly what he was doing to show his fundie flock just how moronic those other fundies and their fundie flock are.. Same god.. different book good reason to kill all those unbelievers ( choose your book.. choose your dogma.... choose your persoanl preference for removing all those unbelievers.

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You extreme lefties sure like to lie about lieing



Another clueless PA from the USUAL SUSPECT....... Are you really this completely out of touch?????????


BUT.. what can we expect from those who get their news from FAUX NEWS and NEWSMAX.....and their opinions formed by opinions from Lush Rimjob and Anne Coldest , Sean Insanity and Glenn "I heard it from GOD" Brainspeck

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You really do not have to keep proving you are a lefty hack who will keep saying the same lie to see if it will come true

I already know that fact
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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During the run-up to the war in Iraq the executive branch was doing a lot of arm-twisting and selective information sharing. That information formed the basis for much of Congress going along with the decision to go to war.

You could make a case for Congress being too easy to lead by the executive branch, but I seem to recall quite a bit of traitor-calling of members of congress who disagreed with the decision to go to war.

And the information was cherry-picked. It was packaged to make a case, rather than to provide information for people to make a decision. There's a HUGE difference.

Kind of like the difference between honest science and proving things.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?



Certain factions of Islam has vowed to kill Americans. Throwing fuel on a fire has never helped to put out the flame.
It is quite simple, he knew that his action would cause a rippling effect across certain areas in the world, and he did it with no concern for the safety of others.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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If an Islamic Mullah claims that everyone who reads "A Catcher in the Rye" is an Infidel and he will kill American troops if it isn't burned, should we ban that book and is it the fault of all the readers if he follows through with his threat?



Certain factions of Islam has vowed to kill Americans. Throwing fuel on a fire has never helped to put out the flame.
It is quite simple, he knew that his action would cause a rippling effect across certain areas in the world, and he did it with no concern for the safety of others.



Again, you're defending the message "Give up your freedom or we will kill you." What's next, "Force your women to wear Burqua's or we will kill you?" "Stone your daughters if they sleep with a man or we will kill you?"

Sorry, how about fuck you Omar, we'll do what we want and if you harm one American for it we'll incinerate you.

That's got a much better ring to it.

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