Why is same-sex marriage wrong?

[nigel99 144]

Quote

>Nope. Read my response to jakee above and you'll know why.

So you do NOT support changing the traditional definition of marriage you posted? You want to preserve it as a "matter of ownership, almost near slavery?" Somehow I doubt you really mean that, and are just arguing to argue. (Which is fine; that's what SC is for, to keep such crap out of the main forums.)

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and defend Belgian Draft. He was reluctant to post his opinion because he knew that because he holds a conservative and non pc viewpoint he was going to get hammered. He did post it and his initial post reflected views that are shared by probably billions of people on the planet. Having a bunch of people dissect your words and trying to "re-educate" you makes it pretty easy to trip over yourself and say stupid things you don't mean as you try and express your opinion.

Right back at the beginning he simply stated that in his view the word marriage was taken. Think about it like a trademark if you like. For sentimental reasons he would like the word to remain as it is - he's not against gays and said as much. He just wants it to remain that when people say that got married his mental picture to be of grandma and apple pie or mum walking down the aisle in a white dress.

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

>Nope. Read my response to jakee above and you'll know why.

So you do NOT support changing the traditional definition of marriage you posted? You want to preserve it as a "matter of ownership, almost near slavery?" Somehow I doubt you really mean that, and are just arguing to argue. (Which is fine; that's what SC is for, to keep such crap out of the main forums.)

I did not post a definition of marriage. Jakee asked, "just what do you think marriage was generally like in times gone by?".
He asked me what I thought it was like in the past. He did not ask for a definition.

I am not aruing for the sake of argument. Wendy asked for opinion, I posted mine with a warning that some people would get their panties in a wad over it, which they did.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

>Nope. Read my response to jakee above and you'll know why.

So you do NOT support changing the traditional definition of marriage you posted? You want to preserve it as a "matter of ownership, almost near slavery?" Somehow I doubt you really mean that, and are just arguing to argue. (Which is fine; that's what SC is for, to keep such crap out of the main forums.)

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and defend Belgian Draft. He was reluctant to post his opinion because he knew that because he holds a conservative and non pc viewpoint he was going to get hammered. He did post it and his initial post reflected views that are shared by probably billions of people on the planet. Having a bunch of people dissect your words and trying to "re-educate" you makes it pretty easy to trip over yourself and say stupid things you don't mean as you try and express your opinion.

Right back at the beginning he simply stated that in his view the word marriage was taken. Think about it like a trademark if you like. For sentimental reasons he would like the word to remain as it is - he's not against gays and said as much. He just wants it to remain that when people say that got married his mental picture to be of grandma and apple pie or mum walking down the aisle in a white dress.

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

Thank you :)

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

That is contradictory. If there is nothing wrong with it, then what is the problem with it being called marriage, which is what it is? And he called it "disgusting," which doesn't come across as "nothing wrong with it" to me.

[nigel99 144]

Quote

Quote

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

That is contradictory. If there is nothing wrong with it, then what is the problem with it being called marriage, which is what it is? And he called it "disgusting," which doesn't come across as "nothing wrong with it" to me.

I don't see a contradiction. YOUR definition of marriage is a long term commitment between 2 consenting adults (or similar). His definition is narrower in that it is between 2 consenting adults of the opposite sex.

Certain words have special meanings for people, it doesn't mean that they are right. I hate analogies because often the analogy becomes the topic... However look at the word 'engineer'. I am a professional engineer in the UK. The large section of the engineering community is pissed off because "we" are clever, but the general public calls the dude who fixes their telephone an 'engineer'. Literally millions of pounds are spent world wide defending the title 'engineer' and the UK has people suggesting that us professional engineers should be rebranded with a special name protected in law that ONLY the elect few can use.

I personally find anal sex disgusting and unappealing regardless of gender, doesn't mean that I think it is wrong. (In fact quite alot of kinky stuff sounds pretty unappealing). I don't know what context he used it in but his original few posts were pretty clear and concise.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

That is contradictory. If there is nothing wrong with it, then what is the problem with it being called marriage, which is what it is? And he called it "disgusting," which doesn't come across as "nothing wrong with it" to me.

I like cats and dogs, but calling a dog "cat" doesn't make it one.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I am a professional engineer in the UK.

Driving trains must be fun.

"professional" really only means you get paid for your work - it was hijacked in engineering to mean someone took a worthless certification test at some time post grad......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name.

That is contradictory. If there is nothing wrong with it, then what is the problem with it being called marriage, which is what it is? And he called it "disgusting," which doesn't come across as "nothing wrong with it" to me.

I like cats and dogs, but calling a dog "cat" doesn't make it one.

And calling an opposite-sex marriage a same-sex marriage doesn't make it one. But it's still a marriage. Just like dogs and cats are still both animals, mammals, carnivorans, etc.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

I personally find anal sex disgusting . . .

I think this may be part of the problem. I get the impression that some people are equating "same-sex marriage" with "anal sex."

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Quote

You're both correct (or both wrong if you intended your answers to be general.)

You sir are correct. The penalty tends to affect lower income couples while the benefit tends to be seen by those with higher incomes.

A good reason to stop treating people different for tax purposes based on their relationship status.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Channman 2]

Quote

Quote

I personally find anal sex disgusting . . .

I think this may be part of the problem. I get the impression that some people are equating "same-sex marriage" with "anal sex."

My girls were watching Glee the other night, two guys started kissing, I therefore turned the TV to a different channel. Anal Sex was not on my mind, but the two actors, Maybe.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

My girls were watching Glee the other night, two guys started kissing, I therefore turned the TV to a different channel. Anal Sex was not on my mind, but the two actors, Maybe.

Hard to know what two people are thinking about when they're kissing... If they were married, then they were probably just thinking about what color to paint the garage.

[billvon 2,400]

>My girls were watching Glee the other night, two guys started kissing,
>I therefore turned the TV to a different channel.

That's totally unacceptable when it's two guys. Now, two women . . .

[billvon 2,400]

>A good reason to stop treating people different for tax purposes based on
>their relationship status.

Agreed. Have a "people sharing income" method of determining taxation that is not based on any kind of relationship status. This could be as simple as claiming dependents or as complex as joint filing.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

If they were married, then they were probably just thinking about what color to paint the garage.

Beige?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I personally find anal sex disgusting . . .

I think this may be part of the problem. I get the impression that some people are equating "same-sex marriage" with "anal sex."

My girls were watching Glee the other night, two guys started kissing, I therefore turned the TV to a different channel. Anal Sex was not on my mind, but the two actors, Maybe.

[ManagingPrime 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You're both correct (or both wrong if you intended your answers to be general.)

You sir are correct. The penalty tends to affect lower income couples while the benefit tends to be seen by those with higher incomes.

You sir, are incorrect.

Perhaps we disagree on what "higher income" means. Per the 1997 CBO figures, of the 49% of those that saw a penalty those with incomes under 20K say a penalty of 7.6% of AGI. Those with incomes over 100K saw a penalty of 1.4%.

As you stated, the law favors income disparity between the spouses. I'm not going to bother looking for numbers to support this wild theory, but I'm willing to bet that there is more income disparity in "higher income" households.

Seems to me that there would be a tax benefit if one took the traditional view of marriage where the little lady stayed at home and took care of the kids while the man of the house worked to support the family.

...or I could be completely off base, but I could really care less....I not married and getting pounded by the IRS like married and single folk alike.

Great graph. Forced me to look a little deeper at the matter...thanks...I think. lol

[billvon 2,400]

>For sentimental reasons he would like the word to remain as it is . . .

I got that impression too - which was why I was surprised that he then posted an example of how the definition had changed with the times.

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Reduced income taxes.

Sorry, gotta differ with you on that one: the so-called "Marriage Tax". Married filing jointly costs more than if two people file separately.

mh
.

Only true for couples with very similar incomes. Couple with dissimilar incomes pay less taxes, and the bigger the gap between those incomes, the bigger the tax break they get by marrying. The guy with the stay at home wife gets to suddenly take two standard deductions, and enjoy a reduced tax bracket, despite making no more money than he did when she was still giving him BJs (i.e. a girlfriend).

And that's just based on simple tax brackets without even taking other factors into consideration. For example, my partner is on my medical insurance. Since we are not married, the portion of her insurance that is paid by my employer is considered "imputed income", i.e. a taxable perk of my employment. At the end of the year, I'm responsible for taxes on my pay plus the taxes on an additional $9k that they spend on her insurance. Married couples get to dodge that tax, same sex couples cannot. To my partner and I, that tax is a conscious choice because our naughty bits are quite different from each other's. But the fact that she has an innie and I have an outie seems like an odd factor for deciding whether we pay an extra ~$3k/year to the federal government each year, doesn't it?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

>For sentimental reasons he would like the word to remain as it is . . .

I got that impression too - which was why I was surprised that he then posted an example of how the definition had changed with the times.

Read my other posts, Bill. I explained that my ideals of marriage were based on my observations of my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Jakee asked what I thought marriage was like throught the ages and i told him. Nobody asked for, or gave, a definition. In fact, as far as i can tell, nobody has posted a definition in this entire thread. So you shouldn't have been surprised at all since there was no basis for it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

I don't.
My ideas of marriage are from what I observed between my parents, grandaparents, great-grandparents.

Oh, I see. So you're appropriating the word marriage based solely on how it has applied to the recent history of your immediate family. And while you don't mind at all describing your relative's relationships with a word that you believe has historically carried strong connotations of slavery, attaching that same word to a relationship that may involve sodomy goes one step too far.

Do you see where the confusion comes in?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

I don't.
My ideas of marriage are from what I observed between my parents, grandaparents, great-grandparents.

Oh, I see. So you're appropriating the word marriage based solely on how it has applied to the recent history of your immediate family. And while you don't mind at all describing your relative's relationships with a word that you believe has historically carried strong connotations of slavery, attaching that same word to a relationship that may involve sodomy goes one step too far.

Do you see where the confusion comes in?

Yep. It comes from your inability to understand how personal observations are a much stronger influence on a persons ideals and frame of mind than anything they read.
Why does it bother you so terribly that I am bothered a teensy little bit about the use of a word?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,400]

>Jakee asked what I thought marriage was like throught the ages and i told him.

Fair enough. Do you think that it has changed at all from how you explained it?

[jakee 1,255]

Quote

Why does it bother you so terribly that I am bothered a teensy little bit about the use of a word?

Bother me? No, it just tends to pique my interest when someone gets so evasive, defensive and angry about being asked anything at all about an opinion they have offered in public. Makes me wonder what it is about their thinking that they're so ashamed of.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Waldschrat 0]

No it isn't, because in general it reduce the number of people which are living on this planet. (kids)