Why is same-sex marriage wrong?

[kallend 1,623]

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Does not affect me at all.

It's between them.

And they can call it a Marriage if they won't - some may think that word is 'taken' but it's not, it's just a word and language is ever evolving.

If it gets up other peoples noses - Fuck em. It's non of their damned business.

Get on with your own lives and let others do the same.

Some may feel they can just change the concept of a word merely by saying it is changed, but it isn't that simple.

The history of the word "gay" over the past 50 years proves you wrong.

I object to the hijacking of the language in this way, but fact is, groups have hijacked it in the past and doubtless will continue to do so.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Does not affect me at all.

It's between them.

And they can call it a Marriage if they won't - some may think that word is 'taken' but it's not, it's just a word and language is ever evolving.

If it gets up other peoples noses - Fuck em. It's non of their damned business.

Get on with your own lives and let others do the same.

Some may feel they can just change the concept of a word merely by saying it is changed, but it isn't that simple.

The history of the word "gay" over the past 50 years proves you wrong.

I object to the hijacking of the language in this way, but fact is, groups have hijacked it in the past and doubtless will continue to do so.

I agree 100%. "Gay" is a very good example of how long it takes. As i already stated, I am certain "marriage" will also encompass gay unions some day but the transition will not be as easy since "gay" did not have a radical group of religeous zealots holding out.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,255]

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Then stay out of my fucking face with it, and we'll get along fine. Quit trying to shove it down my throat all the time and then screaming about how intolerant I am when I get fed up with it.

Not keeping it a secret does not equal shoving it down your throat. If you think you have the right to not see it displayed anywhere, you are incredibly intolerant.

DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner, folks!

I blame the liberal media for a lot of this "controversy". They like to stir up shit where there is none.

Funny, I blame people like you.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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They just want to live their lives like everyone else.

Therein lies the catch.
By wanting to marry someone of the same sex they are not living their lives like everyone else. It is different.

Eh? People who want to marry someone of the opposite sex aren't living their lives like everyone else either.

The overwhelming majority of people who get married marry someone of the opposite sex. Even when same sex marriages become commonplace and accepted they will still be in the very small minority. Don't take the word "everyone" literally.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[billvon 2,400]

>Then stay out of my fucking face with it, and we'll get along fine.

No problem!

> Quit
>trying to shove it down my throat all the time and then screaming about
>how intolerant I am when I get fed up with it.

Also no problem. You can be as fed up as you like - as long as you don't advocate or work to restrict the rights of others while you continue to enjoy those same rights, we'll get along just fine.

[billvon 2,400]

>The overwhelming majority of people who get married marry someone of
>the opposite sex.

And the overwhelming majority of people who get married marry someone of the same race. Still, even interracial couples are just living their lives like everyone else. It's not different, even if it offends some people.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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>The overwhelming majority of people who get married marry someone of
>the opposite sex.

And the overwhelming majority of people who get married marry someone of the same race. Still, even interracial couples are just living their lives like everyone else. It's not different, even if it offends some people.

Yes, Bill, it is different. An Asian marrying a black is not the same as a Latino marrying a caucasion. The same as a Ford 4-door sedan is not the same as a Dodge 4-door sedan. Even if it offends people.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[champu 1]

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Defining deviancy down will continue to happen. The polygamists are next, then it's incest, next, zoophilia, then finally pedophilia.

If society "tolerates" homosexual unions, how can it say no ANY to the above?

What do you feel is the primary argument of those in favor of gay marriage and how do you feel that argument is applicable to those other four things (whereby they would fall like dominos)?

[billvon 2,400]

>The polygamists are next, then it's incest, next, zoophilia, then finally
>pedophilia (but hey, the muslims are way ahead of the rest of us on this
>one).

Actually the Catholic church is leading in that arena . . .

But in any case, the same thing was said about interracial marriage. "If you let women marry black men, they'll be marrying monkeys next." Didn't happen then; won't happen now.

[labrys 0]

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If society "tolerates" homosexual unions, how can it say no ANY to the above?

Explain how allowing a man to marry a man results in a man abusing a boy more than allowing a man to marry a woman allows a man to abuse a girl?

Unless you can show evidence that folks who have engaged in heterosexual marriage don't commit the same crimes, your point is moot.

Crime is crime regardless. Abuse is abuse regardless.

Come back with your judgment when you and your straight friends have a right to throw stones without facing the same judgement.

Owned by Remi #?

[jakee 1,255]

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Yes, Bill, it is different. An Asian marrying a black is not the same as a Latino marrying a caucasion.

So what does that mean? Good, bad, indifferent?

So there's a semantic difference, who gives a fuck? In terms of the things that actually matter (wanting to marry the person you're in love with) it's exactly the same.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Nataly 38]

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If society "tolerates" homosexual unions, how can it say no ANY to the above?

Explain how allowing a man to marry a man results in a man abusing a boy more than allowing a man to marry a woman allows a man to abuse a girl?

Unless you can show evidence that folks who have engaged in heterosexual marriage don't commit the same crimes, your point is moot.

This argument reminds me of the idea that gay couples shouldn't adopt because it would turn the child gay... I can never reconcile that with the obvious fact that 99.999999999% of gay people's parents were straight...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Yes, Bill, it is different. An Asian marrying a black is not the same as a Latino marrying a caucasion.

So what does that mean? Good, bad, indifferent?

So there's a semantic difference, who gives a fuck? In terms of the things that actually matter (wanting to marry the person you're in love with) it's exactly the same.

For me it matters not. People should be able to form a union with whomever they choose.
It is more than a semantic difference. It is a physical difference. It is a difference that matters to a great many people who stand in the way of peoples rights.
Ignoring the fact that there is a difference will not make it go away and will only delay advancement in gay rights.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Shotgun 1]

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So, in my eyes, referring to an action that I find disgusting as being marriage is an insult to the lifestyle and committment to raising a family that those ancestors of mine had.
In brief, find another word. "Marriage" is already taken.

The word "marriage" is legally used by people such as myself who have no intention of raising a family. I have also been divorced and re-married, and some people have been married many times. And there are probably many opposite-sex married couples who have lifestyles that you or someone else may find disgusting. Yes, the word "marriage" is already used, but not necessarily by people who have the same reverence for the word that you have.

[champu 1]

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Come back with your judgment when you and your straight friends have a right to throw stones without facing the same judgement.

Sorry if my post was confusing or if this was a quote/reply mix-up, but I was asking Mark what he thought the rationale of those of us who support gay marriage was. If he is under the impression that it could be applied to all of those other "activities", then he's obviously got the wrong idea.

[winsor 186]

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Come back with your judgment when you and your straight friends have a right to throw stones without facing the same judgement.

Sorry if my post was confusing or if this was a quote/reply mix-up, but I was asking Mark what he thought the rationale of those of us who support gay marriage was. If he is under the impression that it could be applied to all of those other "activities", then he's obviously got the wrong idea.

How do you figure?

What I get out of that is that "marriage" is an artificial construct whose function is to provide a nuclear family for procreation. Traditionally and biologically this works out to include a male and a female.

Since the Miracles of Modern Medicine have expanded upon quite who and what can produce offspring, some of these lines of demarcation have become blurred.

In any event, since the idea of "marriage" is somewhat arbitrary, the goal is to put some limit on the number, gender, species and ages of participants in said institution.

Muhammad (may he rot in hell) listed amongst his wives one who was 9 years old. I will not get into the high esteem in which I hold that union.

"Paint Your Wagon" had Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood married to the same woman. It was a musical or a comedy or something.

Some guy in Tennessee, IIRC, keeps getting arrested for having sex with a horse.

Probably the creepiest form of "marriage" of which I am familiar is the vows nuns take, "marrying" Jesus. The ceremony takes place with a gown, a ring and the whole nine yards. I am not making this up.

In any event, the gays I have known to marry have usually done so with someone of the opposite sex. The explanation one gave was that it was a matter of denial; "nobody wants to be a paraiah."

Upon reflection, I think I am somewhat indifferent. If someone wants to marry their Camaro, or an entire platoon of spouses of various genders and species, all I ask is that they spare me the details. If you can keep me blissfully ignorant, and do not hurt anyone, knock yourself out.


BSBD,

Winsor

[shah269 0]

Gays should not only be allowed to get married they should outright encouraged to get married!

I mean look at those smug happy bastards! All gay and happy...oh we are partners we love each other aren't we cute! He loves me and I love him, she loves me and I love him......we do everything together!

Oh screw you! You are only happy because you are not married yet!
Just you wait till that dream guy/girl of yours gets that ring on his finger and he/she starts packing on the pounds, walking around the house in baggy sweat pants and worst of all....cutting you off from the loving!

Why must we straight people be the only ones that have to live with this crap! Gays need to stop being so freaking happy with each other and join in the potential hell that is being married!


WHO IS WITH ME!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[champu 1]

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Sorry if my post was confusing or if this was a quote/reply mix-up, but I was asking Mark what he thought the rationale of those of us who support gay marriage was. If he is under the impression that it could be applied to all of those other "activities", then he's obviously got the wrong idea.

How do you figure?

What I get out of that is that "marriage" is an artificial construct whose function is to provide a nuclear family for procreation. Traditionally and biologically this works out to include a male and a female.

Since the Miracles of Modern Medicine have expanded upon quite who and what can produce offspring, some of these lines of demarcation have become blurred.

In any event, since the idea of "marriage" is somewhat arbitrary, the goal is to put some limit on the number, gender, species and ages of participants in said institution.

The theme of "adults of legal age of consent" and "for the purposes of having (or adopting) children to make for a nuclear family" extends without much effort from heterosexual marriage to homosexual marriage and, perhaps even, polygamy.

To say his other examples are merely precarious dominos behind a fight against gay marriage is to equate homosexuals and gay marriage with sexual deviancy and nothing more.

I think that's absurd.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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So, in my eyes, referring to an action that I find disgusting as being marriage is an insult to the lifestyle and committment to raising a family that those ancestors of mine had.
In brief, find another word. "Marriage" is already taken.

The word "marriage" is legally used by people such as myself who have no intention of raising a family. I have also been divorced and re-married, and some people have been married many times. And there are probably many opposite-sex married couples who have lifestyles that you or someone else may find disgusting. Yes, the word "marriage" is already used, but not necessarily by people who have the same reverence for the word that you have.

I never said it should only be used by couples raising a family.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Shotgun 1]

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I never said it should only be used by couples raising a family.

No, but it sounded like you were saying that it shouldn't be used by couples whose lifestyles you find to be disgusting.(??) Although, re-reading what you wrote, you said, "referring to an action that I find disgusting as being marriage is an insult . . ." What is the action that you find disgusting?

[wmw999 2,122]

Some people are emotionally tied to the concept of marriage as being between a man and a woman, with the historical rationale for such a union being to procreate. Obviously it doesn't always work that way, but the physical appearance of the wedded ones are what drives it to marriagedom.

I disagree with that viewpoint. But only by understanding it and it underpinnings can consensus be reached.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Nataly 38]

I just think it offends some people's notions of what they think a marriage *should* be.

- If you say marriage is about procreation, then a heck of a lot of people who have no intention of procreating shouldn't be getting married.
- If you say marriage is about religious beliefs, then a heck of a lot of irreligious people shouldn't be getting married.
- If you say marriage should be between a man and a woman, that really isn't a reason - it's just a "feeling."
- If you say marriage is about legal rights, then if anything, this arguments supports expanding these rights to gay couples, even if it is merely a contract and not called a "marriage."
- If you say marriage is simply a way to celebrate the love between two people, what possible reason would there be to deny gays the right to celebrate their love??

The fact is, it's all of these things combined and to varying degrees, and I'm sure I'm missing a bunch more besides. I still don't have a problem with it because I personally feel marriage is a social construction, and as it's made-up anyway, why not let everyone have it. (As long as all parties involved are consenting adults.)

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[d123 1]

> Why does someone else's marriage impact people?

Are you talking about people that just express that same sex marriage is wrong without doing any discrimination or about people that take those kind of oppinions farther away into actions?

2nd group are badly educated. Mother fault. period.

1st group are people just like you. We want things in a certain way and we'll express that.
Take your example for instance. The fact that sompe people don't agree with same sex marriage (which is their right to do so) somehow impacted you, even though you might not be affected by it. We tend to be affected by things that have litle to none real impact to our lifes.

In reality, homophobes choosed to be homophobes just as much homosexuals choosed to be homosexuals. And the other way around.

Me, I regret the times when people cared more about intelectual values than about beauty and sexual orientation. Times are changing.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[Shotgun 1]

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Some people are emotionally tied to the concept of marriage as being between a man and a woman . . .

And those people are free to keep their marriages between a man and a woman. Someone else's marriage should have no effect on that. (Back to your original question.) I'm sure there were many divorces finalized in the U.S. today, but that has had zero effect on my own marriage. There are people out cheating on their spouses today; this also has zero effect on my marriage.

I just don't buy the "protecting the sanctity of marriage" argument. Serial monogamy is quickly becoming the most common form of marriage in the Western world (if it isn't already???). Hardly a sacred institution. Marriage gives couples certain legal rights, and the easiest way to extend those rights to same-sex couples is to allow them to have legal marriages. All of this "civil union"/"domestic partnership" stuff just makes things unnecessarily complicated, and so far doesn't extend all of the same rights of legal marriage to those couples.

[Guest]

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Some people are emotionally tied to the concept of marriage as being between a man and a woman . . .

And those people are free to keep their marriages between a man and a woman. Someone else's marriage should have no effect on that. (Back to your original question.) I'm sure there were many divorces finalized in the U.S. today, but that has had zero effect on my own marriage. There are people out cheating on their spouses today; this also has zero effect on my marriage.

I just don't buy the "protecting the sanctity of marriage" argument. Serial monogamy is quickly becoming the most common form of marriage in the Western world (if it isn't already???). Hardly a sacred institution. Marriage gives couples certain legal rights, and the easiest way to extend those rights to same-sex couples is to allow them to have legal marriages. All of this "civil union"/"domestic partnership" stuff just makes things unnecessarily complicated, and so far doesn't extend all of the same rights of legal marriage to those couples.

...yet there always seems to be an air of smug superiority about it all, that seems to suggest that queerfolk are somehow "better" than "Breeders". Perhaps because they are generally more intelligent.

Given a choice, I'd rather see a child of either sex raised by sensitive, thoughtful queers than idiotic, abusive Breeders any day (as long as INDOCTRINATION wasn't part of the equation), but that only serves to reinforce stereotypes, including the ones the queerfolk have concerning themselves.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."