Blacks Will Never Gain Wealth Equality With Whites Under the Current System

[Amazon 7]

Hey.. how the fuck did I get into this crap

[dreamdancer 0]

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This isn't a racial thing. This is a "maintain an underclass so we can make them think we're helping them."

so a marxist class thing then

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rushmc 18]

Ok
Given the premise you lay out here

What system changes do YOU advocate?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mirage62 0]

If you have around 40% of the work force that doesnt in effect pay taxes and 11% that makes so much they don't care what they pay in taxes - you vote 51%

You could call the conversation the same thing. As long as there the leaders of one group draw there power from that group being unhappy (Black vrs White) the leaders of that group will promote the "struggle" - its how they stay in power

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 2,426]

> As long as there the leaders of one group draw there power from that group
> being unhappy (Black vrs White) the leaders of that group will promote the
>"struggle" - its how they stay in power

So it's how the group that's not in power stays in power? There's an inherent contradiction there I think. Do you mean it's how they try to get power back?

[kelpdiver 2]

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The gap between Black and white households ballooned during the 23-year study period, as white families went from a median of about $22,000 in wealth to $100,000 – a gain of $78,000. In the same period, Black household wealth inched up from a base of $2,000 per family to only $5,000. The sweat and toil of an entire generation had netted Black families only $3,000 additional dollars, while white families emerged from the period with a net worth of 100 grand that can be used to send a couple of kids to college, make investments, help out other family members, or contribute to the larger (white) community. The typical Black family has no such options. [The study did not take property ownership into account. If property were included, the disparity would be larger.]

You keep recycling the same conversation, ignoring anything else told to you.

This is yet again, a reflection of the failure to graduate high school, never mind college.

And the growing delta since the 80s is more of a class issue than a race issue. The job market for the less educated has dramatically shrunken since the 80s. Manufacturing, the best paying option, is overseas now. If you're white or black and have only a high school diploma, you're on average falling well behind. The income growth in technology fields isn't available to you.

The opportunities are here in San Francisco. Some obstructions still exist, but those to choose to fight through them get rewarded. Those that don't even try are punished.

[lawrocket 3]

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Of course they won't get ahead! The welfare state os not designed to pick people up. Rather it is designed to keep people down.

whites have the most welfare - but they are the richest. why is that?

(1) Because there are far more whites than blacks.

but individually, whites receive far more in welfare - why aren't whites kept down like you say?

(you do understand median don't you)

Because you look at people by skin color and I look at people as individuals.
Fact: more whites receive more welfare than blacks.
Fact: 1 in 4 blacks live in poverty, a slightly smaller percentage of hispanics, and about 1 in 10 whites.

Take a look at where the poverty is. Poverty in rural communities hits whites and hispanics. Blacks dominate urban poverty.

Considering the white poverty, would you describe them as being "held back?" Would you apply the same cause/effect relationship?

Blaming others is the easiest way to avoid individual responsibility. From my own personal experience, I figured out that once I quit feeling sorry for myself and took ownership or my failures I was able to excel in life.

I failed out of college. It was really easy for me to feel sorry for myself, and especially when I had friends back home who viewed having fun as an important thing. Once I quit feeling sorry for myself I worked my ass off and got back in to school and completed my education.

NOTHING about it was easy. NOTHING. I could have blamed a system that failed to take into account a person with a significant learning disability. Or, I could simply spend 8 hours studying instead of the three hours that my classmates spent.

It was not that the system was set up to screw me. It was that my mindset was set to screw myself. I've seen it from many people. The problem is a lack of willingness to put their present enjoyment aside in favor of settign up for the future.

Unless one wins the lottery, there is no wealth gained without sacrifice. Without risk. The vast majority of the wealthy worked their asses off, sacrificing plenty.

In some circumstances it is difficult - picture a kid who sees someone driving a pimped out Mazzerati. What about a kid who was raised in an environment of violence? A kid raised in an environment where there is not instilled a work ethic? Or a kid who is raised where a work ethic is viewed as having gotten the parents nowhere?

There are ways for people to get ahead. Check out the term "sell out." Or the term "oreo." Or "house nigga." There is a culture whereupon a person who pursues the education is subject to ridicule, etc. Meanwhile, there is the lack of education seen with rural crackers. There are quicker ways to make money.

I cannot say that the government is entirely responsible. However, I can say that when things are done for people they have a tendency to have little desire to want to do for themselves. Think of the kids of rich people who are little more than spoiled wastes of human lives. Now, think of poor kids who don't have much but everything they had was handed to them.

A culture of dependency creates poverty. Dependency cannot build wealth.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dreamdancer 0]

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And the growing delta since the 80s is more of a class issue than a race issue.

so back to marx then

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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Of course they won't get ahead! The welfare state os not designed to pick people up. Rather it is designed to keep people down.

whites have the most welfare - but they are the richest. why is that?

(1) Because there are far more whites than blacks.

but individually, whites receive far more in welfare - why aren't whites kept down like you say?

(you do understand median don't you)

Because you look at people by skin color and I look at people as individuals.

no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Bolas 5]

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i would never call a black person a negro id say black or african american if they happened to be american if they then tell me that they dont like that id apologise and call them whatever they want

I tend to call people by name myself and only use race if necessary to describe them to others.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kelpdiver 2]

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no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

alternatereality.org is rarely about facts. And you read nothing else.

[dreamdancer 0]

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no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

alternatereality.org is rarely about facts. And you read nothing else.

so when do you expect blacks and whites to have roughly equal wealth?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[sundevil777 94]

The wealth disparity is growing, that is an easy observation.

I doubt that the authors of the report you cited would conclude the truth that liberal welfare policies are largely to blame.

What is it about the current system that is to blame?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[lawrocket 3]

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Because you look at people by skin color and I look at people as individuals.

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no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

Your title:

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Blacks Will Never Gain Wealth Equality With Whites Under the Current System

I hate to break it to you, but in titling the thread specifically at skin color, well, it appears that you do look at people by skin color...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mirage62 0]

> As long as there the leaders of one group draw there power from that group
> being unhappy (Black vrs White) the leaders of that group will promote the
>"struggle" - its how they stay in power

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So it's how the group that's not in power stays in power? There's an inherent contradiction there I think. Do you mean it's how they try to get power back?

No. Ultimately the “group that stay’s in power” is the more productive group. But many of the leader’s of the black community (Jackson comes to mind) remain in power or have power due to fostering the idea that their community is being held back by the “other” community. It’s a LOT easier to sell the idea that you as an individual are being held down unfairly but another class than to point out that as a group we need to do better – think Bill Crosby.

Side note and on the edge here. My father raised me this way. “There are white trash and there are “N” word. (Most likely I would be banded if I wrote “that” word”) most white people have had an advantage Negros haven’t had so I really dislike white trash” He was raised in the 50’s. He believed in a helping hand.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kelpdiver 2]

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no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

alternatereality.org is rarely about facts. And you read nothing else.

so when do you expect blacks and whites to have roughly equal wealth?

until high school graduation rates are on par, not a chance. Other things (college rates, criminal rates) have to improve as well, but basic education is the first step.

[rushmc 18]

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> As long as there the leaders of one group draw there power from that group
> being unhappy (Black vrs White) the leaders of that group will promote the
>"struggle" - its how they stay in power

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So it's how the group that's not in power stays in power? There's an inherent contradiction there I think. Do you mean it's how they try to get power back?

No. Ultimately the “group that stay’s in power” is the more productive group. But many of the leader’s of the black community (Jackson comes to mind) remain in power or have power due to fostering the idea that their community is being held back by the “other” community. It’s a LOT easier to sell the idea that you as an individual are being held down unfairly but another class than to point out that as a group we need to do better – think Bill Crosby.

Side note and on the edge here. My father raised me this way. “There are white trash and there are “N” word. (Most likely I would be banded if I wrote “that” word”) most white people have had an advantage Negros haven’t had so I really dislike white trash” He was raised in the 50’s. He believed in a helping hand.

You speak of the victim mentality written about by Cosby and others. Then the black community goes after them with fire and pitch forks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TrophyHusband 0]

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– think Bill Crosby.

man i love bill crosby. "baby its cold outside" is an awesome song.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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no, i examine the facts - you blather away about everything but the facts

alternatereality.org is rarely about facts. And you read nothing else.

so when do you expect blacks and whites to have roughly equal wealth?

until high school graduation rates are on par, not a chance. Other things (college rates, criminal rates) have to improve as well, but basic education is the first step.

That probably requires removing NEA/AFT control over the educational system (allowing teacher pay and retention based on merit, instead of the usual contracts where pay is based on experience and teachers are laid-off in a last hired first fired order) and some sort of social program which convinces people that staying in school is cool (just like smoking is not).

[billvon 2,426]

>Ultimately the “group that stay’s in power” is the more productive group.

In a democracy it's actually just the largest group; productivity doesn't enter into it.

>But many of the leader’s of the black community (Jackson comes to mind)
>remain in power or have power due to fostering the idea that their
>community is being held back by the “other” community.

Definitely! Just as white leaders have been empowered by people wanting to "keep blacks in their place" and (more recently) by claims of reverse discrimination - the idea that whites are hapless victims of lazy minority schemers. The desire to be seen as a victim is, unfortunately, very pervasive in our culture.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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A culture of dependency creates poverty. Dependency cannot build wealth.

Agreed.

But there are additional problems too. The percentage of black kids who are born into single parent families is astonishingly high, much higher than is the case for whites. There seems to be a subculture that just accepts that caring for children is "womens work"; men are free to go from partner to partner, and when a child results there is no social pressure to man up and take responsibility. It's extremely difficult for a single mom to escape poverty, especially if she dropped out of school to raise a child. I can't understand why the women let men get away with this. If you look at the black middle class, they are almost all living as two-parent families (if kids are involved at all).

Humans always have and always will compete for social status. In some cultural groups, competition is channeled in creative directions, if status is awarded on the basis of behaviors that ultimately lead to economic success (such as education, hard work, being good at music, etc). In other cultures, status is given on the basis of being the most aggressive, the most bad-ass, the one everybody is afraid of. The natural result is a gang culture. That kind of competition is obviously destructive, but it does seem to be celebrated in certain cultural groups. These cultures seem to fall along economic lines, but in the US economic status and race have been linked by history, so the negative effects of choosing one form of competition over another tend to work against blacks more than whites. Please note that I am NOT saying that blacks are any more aggressive by nature, just that a history of not being rewarded for academic success (for example), as a result of Jim Crow laws and other aspects of segregation, fostered competition on other grounds. Many will say "that's all in the past", but cultural forces are very difficult to change, it takes generations.

I suspect even the American love affair with sports works against black kids more than white kids. Whenever I do outreaches in the local schools, and I ask the kids what they want to do when they "grow up", by middle school almost 100% of the black boys say they are going to play in the NBA or the NFL, and almost none of the white boys say that. If being a professional athlete is your chosen career path, it makes sense to spend as much time as you can playing sports, and to let the boring school stuff slide. Colleges (including the one where I teach) aid and abet the problem by allowing lower admission standards for "student athletes". Unfortunately only a small percentage of these kids will actually grow up to play professional sports, and yet they all think they will be the ones to make it and so they don't need to worry about having a "plan B". Even the skinny short kids think they'll make it in the NFL, no question. When they don't, or by the time they figure out that they won't, they are so far behind academically that it's almost impossible to compete for programs leading to a "real" profession.

Of course, all the above is based only on my observation and anecdotal musings, so make of it what you will. I expect I'll get flamed for some of it. But, I do think that some significant cultural changes will have to occur, from within the black community, before the problems of poverty can be addressed on a broad scale. Cosby has said it all much better than I can.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[mnealtx 0]

Well said, Don.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[diablopilot 2]

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As other posters have stated in similar threads;
The term is "equal opportunity", not "equal outcome".
The moon won't come to you. You need to go get it.

Best post in this thread, period.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Of course they won't get ahead! The welfare state os not designed to pick people up. Rather it is designed to keep people down.

I thank you for showing us how the soft bigotry of the system that says, "we're here to help you" when the entire thought behind it is that "they" are inferior and need help from "us."

This is where the left is like Google to the right's Microsoft. Microsoft's business model is the "fuck you" model of business - it made no bones about what it was doing and how. ("Fuck you" was actually right there in Microsoft's bylaws - section 12). Google, on the other hand, is so subtle. They paint themselves as such good folks, a wonderful and responsible company. And it's just as much of a macrophage as Microsoft ever was.

so, left wing bigots, you've accomplished your task of keeping the black man down and making them think you are the friends.

Anybody who continues to support the programs that have kept this going after 50 years demonstrate a preference for this racist result.

Second best post.....

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Bolas 5]

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There seems to be a subculture that just accepts that caring for children is "womens work"; men are free to go from partner to partner, and when a child results there is no social pressure to man up and take responsibility. It's extremely difficult for a single mom to escape poverty, especially if she dropped out of school to raise a child. I can't understand why the women let men get away with this.

It happens because the women let the men get away with it. Both the men and women are being irresponsible.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.