quade 3 #1 December 30, 2009 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html According to the local police, fewer crimes are committed with fewer guns on the streets. Hmmm.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 December 30, 2009 Whatever works. You won't convince me that any of those weapons that were handed in were from "legal" owners though.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #3 December 30, 2009 You are walking a fine line by making that conclusion. What it actually says, is that this program of taking guns, is part of a larger program of reducing violence, which is (supposedly) the cause of reduced homicides. I will agree however, that unregistered weapons are going to be harder to sell, and that this at least gives the illegal owners an opportunity to exchange them for money (food). The article states that all of the weapons are destroyed, however I think they should run the serial number and return them to the original owner if they are stolen, if they don't that is fucked up. Anyways, thanks for the article. Guns-for-Food=The new Oil-for-Food? just kiddin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #4 December 30, 2009 Quote Guns-for-Food=The new Oil-for-Food? just kiddin Why are you kidding? Any government run program is going to have corruption.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #5 December 30, 2009 Quote http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html According to the local police, fewer crimes are committed with fewer guns on the streets. Hmmm. Apparently that's what the sheeple believe. It's one of those sound bites that sounds good when you say it fast - more so on the evening news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #6 December 30, 2009 Quotehttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html I wonder if the reported actions are a leading or trailing indicator related to crime? Or related to perceptions regarding positive policing? I.e., greater confidence in policing, such as via increased community policing. There’s a “growing consensus” that it does work, although I suspect most scholars acknowledge that because there are so many variables, absolute determinations are hard to reach. I suspect it’s trailing. Like the observations w/r/t crime & rain, it suggests that there may be a correlation. Doesn't show causation. To me, the leading versus trailing piece is the more interesting underlying part of the story … ymmv. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,631 #7 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuotehttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html I wonder if the reported actions are a leading or trailing indicator related to crime? Or related to perceptions regarding positive policing? I.e., greater confidence in policing, such as via increased community policing. There’s a “growing consensus” that it does work, although I suspect most scholars acknowledge that because there are so many variables, absolute determinations are hard to reach. I suspect it’s trailing. Like the observations w/r/t crime & rain, it suggests that there may be a correlation. Doesn't show causation. To me, the leading versus trailing piece is the more interesting underlying part of the story … ymmv. /Marg While correlation does not show causation in one direction, it's very strong evidence against causation in the opposite direction. There is good correlation between handgun purchasing and subsequently being shot dead (American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 87, Issue 6 974-978). Doesn't imply causation, but it makes it difficult to claim that buying a gun makes you safer, or that being shot dead causes one to go out and buy a gun).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,631 #8 December 30, 2009 Quote The article states that all of the weapons are destroyed, however I think they should run the serial number and return them to the original owner if they are stolen, if they don't that is fucked up. That would, of course, require that the original owner had registered the gun or reported its theft along with its SN in the first place. For some reason the gun lobby doesn't like the authorities having access to this information.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 December 30, 2009 QuoteAccording to the local police, fewer crimes are committed with fewer guns on the streets. according to all police, fewer crimes are committed with fewer criminals - I suspect this has a higher p-value ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,345 #10 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuote The article states that all of the weapons are destroyed, however I think they should run the serial number and return them to the original owner if they are stolen, if they don't that is fucked up. That would, of course, require that the original owner had registered the gun or reported its theft along with its SN in the first place. For some reason the gun lobby doesn't like the authorities having access to this information. NCIC computer records keep track of stolen guns (and cars and other things). It has nothing to do with "gun registration". However, if there has been an insurance claim made on the stolen guns, then it's the insurance company that owns the gun, not the original owner."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #11 December 30, 2009 With all these recent Gun threads posted from both sides, Has ANYONE changed their Opinion? Those of us that believe in freedom, and the right to own guns, will never change our minds, and those of you that want the government to be their soul sorce of protection, will never give in either! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #12 December 30, 2009 QuoteWith all these recent Gun threads posted from both sides, Has ANYONE changed their Opinion? Those of us that believe in freedom, and the right to own guns, will never change our minds, and those of you that want the government to be their soul sorce of protection, will never give in either! The problem is not binary. Unfortunately, a lot of people do see it that way.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,390 #13 December 30, 2009 And just this morning, I saw another interesting story about why crime is down in the LA area: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126213528444809699.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #14 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteWith all these recent Gun threads posted from both sides, Has ANYONE changed their Opinion? Those of us that believe in freedom, and the right to own guns, will never change our minds, and those of you that want the government to be their soul sorce of protection, will never give in either! The problem is not binary. Unfortunately, a lot of people do see it that way. 1100001111000111111100000000111...HUH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,345 #15 December 30, 2009 Quote With all these recent Gun threads posted from both sides, Has ANYONE changed their Opinion? Those of us that believe in freedom, and the right to own guns, will never change our minds, and those of you that want the government to be their soul sorce of protection, will never give in either! Well, the "hardcore" on both sides of the argument will always believe what they choose. But not everyone sees it as a black and white issue. And not everyone who reads these arguments posts. So, I think there are a (very) few who may take a (slightly) different view on the crap we argue here because of what is posted. And that goes for the religious and political views as well as the gun arguments. Besides, it's kinda fun to defend my opinions against those who have a different one. It makes me revisit my reasons for having that particular view and examine my own validity. YMMV"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotehttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html I wonder if the reported actions are a leading or trailing indicator related to crime? Or related to perceptions regarding positive policing? I.e., greater confidence in policing, such as via increased community policing. There’s a “growing consensus” that it does work, although I suspect most scholars acknowledge that because there are so many variables, absolute determinations are hard to reach. I suspect it’s trailing. Like the observations w/r/t crime & rain, it suggests that there may be a correlation. Doesn't show causation. To me, the leading versus trailing piece is the more interesting underlying part of the story … ymmv. /Marg While correlation does not show causation in one direction, it's very strong evidence against causation in the opposite direction. There is good correlation between handgun purchasing and subsequently being shot dead (American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 87, Issue 6 974-978). Doesn't imply causation, but it makes it difficult to claim that buying a gun makes you safer, or that being shot dead causes one to go out and buy a gun). Which, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuote The article states that all of the weapons are destroyed, however I think they should run the serial number and return them to the original owner if they are stolen, if they don't that is fucked up. That would, of course, require that the original owner had registered the gun or reported its theft along with its SN in the first place. For some reason the gun lobby doesn't like the authorities having access to this information. After the *sterling* examples of California, New York and Chicago, where registration was either abused or used to confiscate guns, that's hardly surprising.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 December 30, 2009 Quotehttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/man-unloads-58-guns-at-compton-weapons-exchange-event.html According to the local police, fewer crimes are committed with fewer guns on the streets. Hmmm. Actually, what drives us crazy is your tendency to make questionable conclusions from news reports like this. There isn't an ounce of foundation for the claim you made, one that even the cops didn't make. A lot of toys/cash/vouchers for guns programs are buybacks of cheap/defective/undesirable weapons where the seller comes out ahead. You don't see too many $900 P229s being turned in for that $50. The "assault weapons" are not the primary type either. I doubt there is much societal benefit to these events. Crime reduction - very unlikely. They are a well publicized manner for people to properly dispose of weapons they no longer need (owned by a deceased family member, for example) Actually these people could always just go to the police station, but not all know this. But better to do this then to throw it in the trash, or leave and forget about in the closet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 December 30, 2009 QuoteWhich, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=washington+dc+crime+rate+vs+dallas Excuse me . . . you were saying?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 December 30, 2009 Quote There is good correlation between handgun purchasing and subsequently being shot dead (American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 87, Issue 6 974-978). Doesn't imply causation, but it makes it difficult to claim that buying a gun makes you safer, or that being shot dead causes one to go out and buy a gun). Who could have guessed that suicidal people might buy guns, and then use them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhich, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=washington+dc+crime+rate+vs+dallas Excuse me . . . you were saying? I was saying that, per 2008 UCR stats, DC has a violent crime rate of 1374.5/100k vs. Dallas with a rate of 894.8/100k - what were YOU trying to say before you blocked it with your foot?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #22 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhich, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=washington+dc+crime+rate+vs+dallas Excuse me . . . you were saying? I was saying that, per 2008 UCR stats, DC has a violent crime rate of 1374.5/100k vs. Dallas with a rate of 894.8/100k - what were YOU trying to say before you blocked it with your foot? Actually, no. You said crime rate, not violent crime rate. Easy to say one thing and then claim another after.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhich, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=washington+dc+crime+rate+vs+dallas Excuse me . . . you were saying? What exactly is your point, then? If Dallas and DC are the same despite wildly different laws on guns, that may suggest that guns are not a factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 December 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhich, of course, is why DC has such a LOW crime rate. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=washington+dc+crime+rate+vs+dallas Excuse me . . . you were saying? I was saying that, per 2008 UCR stats, DC has a violent crime rate of 1374.5/100k vs. Dallas with a rate of 894.8/100k - what were YOU trying to say before you blocked it with your foot? Actually, no. You said crime rate, not violent crime rate. Easy to say one thing and then claim another after. I was unaware of the effect of guns on property crime - if you have such proof, then please provide it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #25 December 30, 2009 Quote If Dallas and DC are the same despite wildly different laws on guns, that may suggest that guns are not a factor. Did you click on the link? It opened a page showing that Dallas has a crime rate 29.5% higher than Washington, D.C. That doesn't sound like they're the same.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
