quade 3 #51 July 20, 2009 Well, this has been an amusing way to spend the evening. I was seriously hoping Warped was just pointing out some lunacy, but it appears he's gone in with the tin-foil hat crowd. Pity. I used to sort of like playing with him, but if he's gone that far I now can't take a lot of what he has to say seriously anymore. Can't wait to see what he comes up with next though. Night all.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #52 July 20, 2009 Quote That can actually be found, there are quite few dead people that were born in 1961 in Hawaii. Prove me wrong... Everything may be found. My question was very precise. You said: Quote They did not call people African on forms in 1961 It was either Negro or Black. This could mean one of two things: 1. You're talking as an expert, who have personally examined a lot of birth certificates issued in 1961 in Hawaii, and your statement is based on your knowledge and experience. In this case your statement has weight, and cannot be blankly dismissed. Further investigation is justified. 2. You're just making up empty things, and have no idea what you're talking about. You are comfortable making up things, or repeating what you read somewhere else as truth coming from you, while you really have no idea whether it is true or just bullshit. In this case your statement is just baloney, and could be silently ignored. It also makes your other statements more questionable. So are you 1) or 2)? (edit: some grammar fixes)* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #53 July 20, 2009 >See *NATURAL BORN CITIZEN Means "born in the US." He was. >Show me Obama's valid Birth Certificate. Sure. Here you go: http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g2gjump 0 #54 July 20, 2009 Neither was McCain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #55 July 20, 2009 http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #56 July 20, 2009 QuoteQuoteI am a Libertarian. I wasn't questioning that. Besides, who gives a rats ass about you? You're not lumping yourself in with the tin foil hat conspiracy theory nut jobs are you? There are questions I am asking and the answers are not being given,being blocked by Atty Gen holder and Napolitano, as well as being brushed off by many others. When Obama took the Illinois Bar exam he signed a document stating he has not been known by another name. We know that cannot be true. When we quit asking questions and not looking at the pertinent documents we are giving a free pass to someone who holds the most powerful office in the world. Senator McCain was a natural born citizen and yet people on this very forum say he is not. # Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S. Section 1401 & 1403 apply here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #57 July 20, 2009 QuoteNeither was McCain... WRONG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #58 July 20, 2009 QuoteThe certificate of a live birth is not a birth certificate. You cannot even use that as a way to get a drivers license. I did. As an adoptee in the 60's, back when closed adoptions were really closed, a certificate of live birth is all I've ever had and I've managed to get a driver's license, passport, and decently high security clearance.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #59 July 20, 2009 That makes me wonder why he does not possess a Birth Certifcate, or have not provided one. Why all the secret crap and evasive tactics? It is just a Birth Certificate, either he has one or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #60 July 20, 2009 >>Neither was McCain... >WRONG John Sidney McCain III Born August 29, 1936 (1936-08-29) Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone, Panama US Foreign Affairs Manual: "it has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural born citizen." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #61 July 20, 2009 Well then, I guess you disagree with the sections of US code that I posted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #62 July 20, 2009 BTW a US Military installation is considered to be US soil. Same goes for an embassy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #63 July 20, 2009 QuoteThere has been no Birth Certificate provided. The certificate of a live birth is not a birth certificate. You cannot even use that as a way to get a drivers license. Wrong. In the U.S., the keeping of vital statistics is a state function, because it is not a power assigned by the Constitution to the federal government (under the Tenth Amendment, all powers not given to the federal government are reserved to the states and the people), and yet the federal government is extremely dependent upon this state function it lacks direct jurisdiction over, because the Fourteenth Amendment expressly grounds American citizenship upon birth in the United States (a jus soli system of citizenship). Therefore, the federal and state governments have traditionally cooperated, to some extent, to improve vital statistics. From 1900 to 1946 the U.S. Census Bureau designed standard birth certificates, collected vital statistics on a national basis, and generally sought to improve the accuracy of vital statistics. In 1946 that responsibility was passed to the U.S. Public Health Service. Unlike the British system of recording all births in "registers", the states file an individual document for each and every birth. In most states, this document was, and still is, entitled a "Certificate of Live Birth".[3][4]If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #64 July 20, 2009 Quote Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone, Panama His parent were military, Bill. If someone's parents are serving our country in the military, I don't think you can reasonably dispute their children are US citizens from birth.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #65 July 20, 2009 I could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure Bill is using McCain's case to make a point about how ridiculous the claims about Obama are... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #66 July 20, 2009 What standard record do you want? It turns out I didn't have a birth certificate valid for a passport until I was 38. And I didn't know it. I had a hospital ceritificate that I used for school, drivers license, etc. But when I applied for a passport I found out it didn't count. Where did I get mine? From the State of Ill. And it looked a whole lot like a Obama's certified 'copy or abstract'. It was not a copy of a 1958 document. It was a newly created document from the information provided to the state in 1958. Right now I don't even know where my old hospital certificate is. If I'd lived in a couple of countries it wouldn't surprise me if it was lost.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #67 July 20, 2009 >If someone's parents are serving our country in the military, I don't think >you can reasonably dispute their children are US citizens from birth. Right you are. But we're not talking about reasonable here, we're talking conspiracy theories. In any reasonable world, both Obama and McCain are qualified to be president. In conspiracy-theory world, the fact that McCain was not a "US natural born citizen" is even more damning than the wording on Obama's birth certificate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #68 July 20, 2009 if there was ANY way to prove this. the clintons or mccain would have used it, when running for pres I'm sure they had team research it.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #69 July 20, 2009 Quote>>Neither was McCain... >WRONG John Sidney McCain III Born August 29, 1936 (1936-08-29) Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone, Panama US Foreign Affairs Manual: "it has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural born citizen." Have you read this? It seems to me you're pretty far out of the mainstream on that one. QuoteIN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES Mrs. MCCASKILL (for herself and Mr. LEAHY, Mr. OBAMA, Mr. COBURN, Mrs. CLINTON, and Mr. WEBB) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on _______________ RESOLUTION Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ of the United States; Whereas the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States; Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to American citizens serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country’s President; Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’; Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders; Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #70 July 20, 2009 >Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ >under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States. Well, then, all we have to do is get the Senate to pass a similar resolution for Obama and we're set! Heck, get one passed for Schwarzenegger; that would make a lot of people happy: =========== RESOLUTION Recognizing that Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger is a natural born citizen. Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ of the United States; Whereas the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States; Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to foreign parents who dedicate their lives to public service within the government of the United States; Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’; Whereas the United States is in fact a country of immigrants, and always has been; Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who serve the public in elected governmental positions; Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and Whereas Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger was born to Austrian parents, but willingly emigrated to the US and is now serving as Governor of California, Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger is a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #71 July 20, 2009 QuoteWell, then, all we have to do is get the Senate to pass a similar resolution for Obama and we're set! You're disagreeing with the sponsors of that resolution? The ones listed at the top? Hey, that's your right, I guess. Along with shiny metal headgear.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #72 July 20, 2009 Quote In any reasonable world, both Obama and McCain are qualified to be president. with respect to citizenship. with respect to all the constitutional requirements for eligibility. so maybe "eligible" would be a better word than "qualified" which in my mind implies a whole host of other things that are outside the scope of this thread.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #73 July 20, 2009 *whoosh* Bill, it's impossible to imply anything in SC...it must be spelled out in words fewer than 3 syllables. All attempts at humor, leveling, or use of exaggerated counter-examples to try to show how amazingly ridiculous the other side is being usually don't work. As proven by many responses in this thread.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #74 July 20, 2009 >You're disagreeing with the sponsors of that resolution? Uh, no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #75 July 20, 2009 Oh give it up. You've lost this one, mainly on the grounds that it's bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
