Andy_Copland 0 #1 February 23, 2009 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1152725/Boy-11-charged-fatal-shooting-fathers-pregnant-girlfriend-using-special-CHILDS-shotgun.html Stories like this always make me scratch my head.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #2 February 23, 2009 i don't agree with someone under 18 being charge as an adult. charging an 11 year old as an adult is just fucking rediculous. why do they do that? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #3 February 23, 2009 In this case it's quite obvious that he walked into the bedroom with the gun, put it to her head, and pulled the trigger. The child should be charge as a child, the father should see jail time."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #4 February 23, 2009 Prosecutors do that because the laws let them do it. It is then up to the defense to get the charges reduced, etc. I don't like it at all. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #5 February 23, 2009 Calling a child "an adult" does not make him so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #6 February 23, 2009 he shot her - i guess he'll have lots of time on his little hands to realize that this wasn't some computer gameThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #7 February 23, 2009 troubling. I'm torn about kids being tried as adults. some kids should be, and some shouldn't. I just don't know that there's any concrete way to determine which. I have a hard time reading that story...the victim's last name is the exact same as my maiden name and it's creeping me out. And it's not exactly a common one! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #8 February 23, 2009 ".... The weapon, a youth model 20-gauge shotgun, was found in what police said was the boy's bedroom. The shotgun, which apparently belonged to Brown, is designed for children and such weapons do not have to be registered,...." Designed for children??? A 20gauge designed for kids. Incredible. Over here it's a ladies calibre. Over there, it's a "youth model" ..... Jesus Christ dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #9 February 23, 2009 Actually the 20 gauge comes in really shorted stock models over here that are really only sized for someone that is 4 feet tall I was looking at picking my step niece a youth model .410 since it was pink and it would fit her really nicely. It would match her .22 pink bolt action! Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #10 February 23, 2009 Quote Actually the 20 gauge comes in really shorted stock models over here that are really only sized for someone that is 4 feet tall I was looking at picking my step niece a youth model .410 since it was pink and it would fit her really nicely. It would match her .22 pink bolt action! Don't do that. A .410 is much too small and only causing injuries. Even in pink. The little guy in this thread is 11. The other one of last week, the one who killed 2 adults, you remember? - is 9 y/o. His weapon was light blue? Never mind. Main thing is, kids know how to use it. In pink or in blue. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #11 February 23, 2009 I disagree with charging children as adults in any situation. If one doesn't think the penalties available in juvenile court are sufficient to fit the more despicable crimes, they should change those penalties. Defining one thing as a juvenile, another thing as an adult, and then allowing prosecutors to disregard those definitions strikes me as incredibly poor form. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #12 February 23, 2009 The murder follows another shocking killing linked to a boy. Last Thursday, a 9-year-old Arizona boy reached a plea deal with authorities who accused him of the fatal shootings of his father and his father's room-mate. The boy pleaded guilty to negligent homicide in the death of his father's room-mate while the murder charge in his father's death was dropped. I am waiting to see John Rich´s solution. Probably give weapons to all their siblings so they can protect mommy and daddy if little joe goes nuts with dad´s shotgun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #13 February 23, 2009 LOL 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #14 February 23, 2009 Quote I disagree with charging children as adults in any situation. If one doesn't think the penalties available in juvenile court are sufficient to fit the more despicable crimes, they should change those penalties. Defining one thing as a juvenile, another thing as an adult, and then allowing prosecutors to disregard those definitions strikes me as incredibly poor form. Blues, Dave Why to go that complicate way of changing anything in court? Take the easy way out. Teach them kids earlier how to handle a weapon in a proper way - of course, with smaller calibres. They're kids, right? Let's say: Start training at the age of about 3 or 4 years. They will understand, believe me!! Teach them kids never to use a gun in anger, in frustration, when beeing drunken, or beeing beaten by drunken father, never when the idiot next door (once the best friend) refuses to play with the kid ... teach that kid all of that. They will understand! All of that only - of course! - if you're a responsible and caring parent, like all weapon owners are! (Know what? At next opportunity, it will take the gun and kill the next one ringing at entrance door.) Holy shit, you guys think about changing penalties. You should think a bit more about gun controls. It's no more only the drunken/stoned adults killing others and each other - it's your small kids right now! How on earth is it possible that small kids in this age can put their hands on weapons???? These kids - 9 and 11 y/o - are nothing new. It's happening on a regularly basis and will happen again. Over there. Change juvenile penalties. Quickly. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 February 23, 2009 QuoteI disagree with charging children as adults in any situation. If one doesn't think the penalties available in juvenile court are sufficient to fit the more despicable crimes, they should change those penalties. Defining one thing as a juvenile, another thing as an adult, and then allowing prosecutors to disregard those definitions strikes me as incredibly poor form. Now I don't need to post. You did it for me. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 February 23, 2009 QuoteI disagree with charging children as adults in any situation. If one doesn't think the penalties available in juvenile court are sufficient to fit the more despicable crimes, they should change those penalties. The current penalties seem particularly in appropriate for handling 16 and 17 yos, and there is the general problem of desparity if the kid commits a crime a week before or after his 18th birthday. The quandary, if how far back can you go? I think it's much easier to argue that a 16yo should be treated as an adult than it is with a sub teenager. Though in this one, there's little doubt that the 11yo knew what he was doing, that it was wrong. It's only a question of what standard can you hold him to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #17 February 23, 2009 QuoteQuoteI disagree with charging children as adults in any situation. If one doesn't think the penalties available in juvenile court are sufficient to fit the more despicable crimes, they should change those penalties. The current penalties seem particularly in appropriate for handling 16 and 17 yos, and there is the general problem of desparity if the kid commits a crime a week before or after his 18th birthday. The quandary, if how far back can you go? I think it's much easier to argue that a 16yo should be treated as an adult than it is with a sub teenager. Though in this one, there's little doubt that the 11yo knew what he was doing, that it was wrong. It's only a question of what standard can you hold him to. So add something to juvenile penalties that allows for alternate sentencing, e.g. x/8's of minimum adult punishment, where x is equal to 17 minus the child's age. So a 10 year old could potentially get 1/8th of an adults penalty and a 17 year old could get as much as 7/8ths. Also, I suspect it's a very rare 11 year old that fully appreciates the gravity of his/her actions. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 February 23, 2009 Quote So add something to juvenile penalties that allows for alternate sentencing, e.g. x/8's of minimum adult punishment, where x is equal to 17 minus the child's age. So a 10 year old could potentially get 1/8th of an adults penalty and a 17 year old could get as much as 7/8ths. Also, I suspect it's a very rare 11 year old that fully appreciates the gravity of his/her actions. Blues, Dave My father died at 12. I understood the gravity of what that meant, even though I had only seen him sparingly in my life. I also would have understood that shooting a sleeping person in the back of the head would result in this. Your math formula is an interesting approach, where distance of age of adulthood is used as a coefficient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 February 24, 2009 QuoteTeach them kids earlier how to handle a weapon in a proper way - of course, with smaller calibres. They're kids, right? Let's say: Start training at the age of about 3 or 4 years. They will understand, believe me!! Yes, they will - but I'd wait until they're a bit older. Yes, I know you meant it sarcastically, but, like usual, you're full of it. Quote(Know what? At next opportunity, it will take the gun and kill the next one ringing at entrance door.) Bullcrap. Gun-proofing the child is more important than childproofing the gun. Teach them from a young age that it is NOT a toy and teach them respect for what it can do.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #20 February 24, 2009 QuoteGun-proofing the child is more important than childproofing the gun. Teach them from a young age that it is NOT a toy and teach them respect for what it can do. I don't think this child needed to be gun-proofed as much as he needed to be violence-proofed; and I mean by medical, psychological and social intervention and treatment, not education. I'm not persuaded he didn't understand the basic lethality of the gun; I think he intended to commit a deliberate act of violence on his father's fiancee - by whatever means. Re: charging him as an adult: everyone up-thread has already made the points. It's a travesty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 February 24, 2009 QuoteI'm not persuaded he didn't understand the basic lethality of the gun; I think he intended to commit a deliberate act of violence on his father's fiancee - by whatever means. I agree. QuoteRe: charging him as an adult: everyone up-thread has already made the points. It's a travesty. I don't disagree - but I'm at a loss as to HOW the case should be handled.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #22 February 24, 2009 Adult crime. ........ adult sentence - lock the fucker up and throw away the keys.... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pmw515 0 #23 February 24, 2009 I partially agree. Either put him in a juvenile facility until his 18th birthday, or put him in protective custody in an adult facility; he will go to adult prison either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,136 #24 February 24, 2009 In Canada both those kids could not even be charged with a crime.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #25 February 24, 2009 QuoteIn Canada both those kids could not even be charged with a crime.... so....is that a good thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
