mnealtx 0 #26 June 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteok, i'm learning something new here. i was unaware that you could fill a natural gas powered car just about anywhere. this is something my wife and i will research and crunch the numbers on. i don't understand where you are coming from in your second statement. can you please elaborate? Natural gas automobiles are only available in California. The Honda Civic GX is the only one that I know of, and it is only sold in California, and then, only in certain markets (SF, LA, SD if I think). I don't know what Bill and the gang are talking about. But NGVs are no where near being widely available. LPG conversions are nothing new.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 June 12, 2008 QuoteThat search was for "gasoline" if you search for natural gas there are none. I'm still trying to figure out why Billvon is searching Mountain View tho I beg pardon, you're exactly right - I didn't notice that the search defaulted to gasoline. Thank you for pointing that out. A new search shows 3 locations, unfortunately they're 40 miles away in Boise. The reason for the location of my search was due to the location of the poster I was answering.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #28 June 12, 2008 ok, now i understand. hopefully our strategic oil reserves hold out just one day longer than the rest of the world's. that also blows my plan to use our oil reserves to flood the market causing speculators to lose their ass. maybe we can run f-22's on little tiny nuclear reactors. the lead shielding doesn't weigh that much does it?that would be awesome if i could fill my tank at home. how many miles do i get per "therm"? i don't know what a therm is, but i pay $1.06648 for each one i use. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #29 June 12, 2008 In gross energy levels (from the little I've read tonight on lpg conversions), it appears that 13 gallons of lpg is the equivalent of 10 gallons of gasoline.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #30 June 12, 2008 Touching back on a couple of issues brought up in-thread: LPG vehicles: Honda Civic GX Roush LPG powered F-150 Fueling options: Home CNG filling station Interesting stuff...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #31 June 12, 2008 Quote ?? I checked the real estate listings for Mountain View, and several houses offer gas heat. I'd say, most houses here have gas heat and gas water heater; cost about 20% less to operate comparing to electrical. There are even gas stations which provide natural gas (I know one in SJC). Obviously there are not a lot of them.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #32 June 12, 2008 QuoteYes! but right now do you believe that alternatives are available to the general public? Sure. There's no law that says you have to live in a suburban area where less money gets you a lot of house with it's own land. I've always lived a comfortable walking/biking distance from work, food, and entertainment. In a small expensive city prior to the housing bubble that meant owning a townhome instead of the a house; big expensive city renting a studio apartment; small really expensive city renting 1/3 of a triplex with $2000 in renovations to make it livable; etc. You can also use less gas. A $3000 brand new Vespa scooter gets 70 MPG. A used Insight does the same thing for more money but four doors. Quote I have not seen much. Right now if I decide not to drive I am walking. Bicycles work real well for trips of 2-15 miles. Racks, paniers, and trailers mean you can haul groceries, children, and pets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 June 12, 2008 QuoteBicycles work real well for trips of 2-15 miles. Racks, paniers, and trailers mean you can haul groceries, children, and pets. The biggest problem with the bicycle is the theft problem. I can and occasionally ride to work, but I don't think it wise to make any stops to or from. We need a return to hanging of thieves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #34 June 12, 2008 what i haven't figured out yet is what are my miles per dollar with propane? reading my gas bill, i'm charged for each 100 cubic foot times a billing factor that is just over 1, but varies from month to month. how many cubic feet are in a gallon of lpg? also is natural gas the same as propane, will they both work, and will you get the same mileage with either? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #35 June 13, 2008 Quote Quote >So when a product becomes a necessity should it not be regulated? No. A better option is to make it NOT a necessity by pushing alternatives - and then let the market regulate price. if i were an "oil" company, i would change to an "energy" company and be on the front lines of alternative energy souces, and buy up all of the patents for alternative energy, and then sit on all of the new technology until all of the oil is sucked from the ground. i don't know if oil companies are currently doing this, but i would be surprised if they weren't. This sounds like the final scene of the movie "The Formula". 1980 film Starring Marlon Brando and George C. Scott. As the Oil Co. exec Brando get lines like "We're not in the oil business; we're in the oil shortage business! " By the end of the film the Brando has made a business deal to "wait" on the release of the alternative fuel source until they can maximize their profits."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 June 13, 2008 God forbid a company makes a profit - where do you think the money to develop the alternate energy sources comes from - the tooth fairy? In fact, several of the oil companies ARE involved in development of alternate energy sources.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #37 June 13, 2008 Quote where do you think the money to develop the alternate energy sources comes from? In the US, from the NSF, DoD, DOE, EPA, and NIST. Through their basic research, applied research, advanced technology development, Small Business Technology Transfer (STTR), and Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) Programs. Larger companies frequently then acquire the small, start-up as a product is ready to go to market or IPE (+/- 5y), e.g., this Dubai conglomerate that acquired 50% stake in a Santa Rosa, CA-located small business in altenative energy or this UK-based "energy" conglomerate that acquired an alternative energy technology developed at Florida State University. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 June 13, 2008 nerd!!! Marg, I swear to God you have a dedicated Cray and T3 line for data searches...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #39 June 13, 2008 QuoteThis just in: Exxon is getting out of the retail gasoline business. The profits just aren't there. This is a big deal, and makes me wonder if other oil companies that have a retail arm will follow suit. The end result to the consumer will be interesting...how might this affect retail gas prices if the industry follows suit? Retail gasoline stations don't have much room for markup on gas. The profit comes from the merchandise inside the convenience store, coffee, cigarettes, candy, etc. Since most of Exxon branded stations are already independently owned, it is doubtful to affect the consumer much at all, even if the industry follows suit.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #40 June 13, 2008 From what I've read lately, the gas price issue has really REALLY affected automakers - not just in advertising going towards emphasizing gas mileage but to the point where I read somewhere that GM was considering selling the Hummer brand, as it's just getting killed. So, given this trend (which, while annoying, I think is a long-term positive), to what level do hybrids/efficient cars/alternative energy vehicles have to take over in order for it to make any difference with oil prices? I mean, buying a hybrid will make YOUR gasoline bills drop but how extensive does this have to go for it to actually affect supply so that gas prices come back down a bit? My understanding is that a big part of the oil price problem right now is the large amount of consumption that China has suddenly developed, so I'm not sure how extensive the switch to more gas efficient vehicles has to be to really affect things. Regardless, if this makes it so that all these alternative energies and engine development speed up, I think we're better for it (even if it hurts now). I guess it's easy for me to say...I take the El to work every day.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,404 #41 June 13, 2008 >My understanding is that a big part of the oil price problem right now >is the large amount of consumption that China has suddenly developed, >so I'm not sure how extensive the switch to more gas efficient vehicles has >to be to really affect things. We're still the largest user of gasoline on the planet, so a change we made would have a significant effect. If every driver in the US bought a hybrid tomorrow that doubled his gas mileage, we'd cut world oil usage by 17%. There aren't enough hybrids out there to do that, of course. So the question would be - can we buy them quickly enough so that we decrease that 17% while China is increasing that 17%? If we do that, we can keep oil prices where they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #42 June 13, 2008 So the days where we were outraged by a $2.00 gallon of gas (as it was in 2000, where the state of IL actually suspended its gas taxes when gas was nearing $2/gal) are effectively over, even if we did all switch to driving hybrids... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,404 #43 June 13, 2008 > So the days where we were outraged by a $2.00 gallon of gas are effectively over . . Well, literally yes. Figuratively no. Today you can buy a car (a Tesla) that costs $6 to "fill" - and then you can drive 250 miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #44 June 13, 2008 Quote> So the days where we were outraged by a $2.00 gallon of gas are effectively over . . Well, literally yes. Figuratively no. Today you can buy a car (a Tesla) that costs $6 to "fill" - and then you can drive 250 miles.Yes, for $109,000 but even at the quoted 2 cents per mile and never mind the lack of availability (as in huge waiting list to get one) the Tesla is not really a feasable solution for most people... But I do agree that alternatives need to be found... I know there are scientists locally that are looking at converting Coal into viable fuels for turbines.Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #45 June 13, 2008 Quote If every driver in the US bought a hybrid tomorrow that doubled his gas mileage, we'd cut world oil usage by 17%. Out of curiosity, where did you find that number?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,634 #46 June 13, 2008 Quote ...My understanding is that a big part of the oil price problem right now is the large amount of consumption that China has suddenly developed, so I'm not sure how extensive the switch to more gas efficient vehicles has to be to really affect things. If US consumers weren't so anxious to buy all kinds of stuff "made in China", China wouldn't need so much oil.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,634 #47 June 17, 2008 Quote>My understanding is that a big part of the oil price problem right now >is the large amount of consumption that China has suddenly developed, >so I'm not sure how extensive the switch to more gas efficient vehicles has >to be to really affect things. We're still the largest user of gasoline on the planet, so a change we made would have a significant effect. If every driver in the US bought a hybrid tomorrow that doubled his gas mileage, we'd cut world oil usage by 17%. There aren't enough hybrids out there to do that, of course. So the question would be - can we buy them quickly enough so that we decrease that 17% while China is increasing that 17%? If we do that, we can keep oil prices where they are. Don't forget the commodities futures traders who've helped drive the prices up. Maybe the ENRON LOOPHOLE needs to be closed (although McCain seems to like it).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #48 June 17, 2008 Quote Maybe the ENRON LOOPHOLE needs to be closed (although McCain seems to like it). I think some part of this also has to do with the ability of commodities traders to lever themselves 10 times, i.e., for every dollar that put in, they're allowed to borrow 10 more. The Glass-Stegall act (1933?), which was put together after the 1927 market crash, limited stocks to 2-1.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #49 June 18, 2008 If you don't watch this you deserve what they are going to shove up your ass! video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147 and you'll deserve for bewlieving the lies that they have fed you since birth. www.the-twin-paradox.comwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #50 June 18, 2008 ICE ICE baby. Unethical behavior by Commodities traders (Speculators) control the price. When you only have to put up 7% margin to buy futures contracts and you don't even have to identify yourself when you make a buy you can see where that leads. NO ACCOUNTABILITY. And you can thank former US Senator Phil Graham, His wife Wendy, Former Congressman Tom Delay and his wife and Sen Richard Lugar and the late Chairman of Enron Ken Lay for all this. They had a law paased as a rider to the omnibus spending bill that allowed oil to be traded as an unregulated commododity called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. It failed twice in getting passed by Congress so they put it in as a rider to the spending bill that former Pres. Bill Clinton signed. Tom Delays wife was paid 200,000 dollars as a lobbyist for the oil and gas industry. Phil Graham's wife was put on the board of Directors of Enron and they all cheered. Now we know what happenned to all these crooks and we are all paying for it now. (Fort Worth Star Telegram Article by Automobile Editor Ed Wallace) The way to correct all this is for ICE to exercise some control and ACCOUNTABILITY. Raise the margins to 25% and identify the speculators. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
