Israel Crimes-Israeli Apartheid. From an Israelis point of view.

[juanesky 0]

You are funny, pretending that the Israel - Palestine conflict is secular. As far as I know, Jihad can only be called for by muslims, or is it buddhists that make these calls?

Thank you I needed that.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[popsjumper 2]

Funny how Pro-Israeli and Pro-Palestinian groups will argue until doomsday without either one recognizing the position of the other.

You're both screwballs. It's like kids having to have the last word - the arguement goes on forever.

Why don't you guys just declare open, free-for-all war and be done with it? Call all your people home and fight to the end, toe-to-toe. Six days should do it.

Hopefully, one of these days (and yes, I know that it is a very simplistic view) both sides will back up and realize..."Hey, This whole thing sucks. Let's just stop it here and re-think this entire mess."

OTOH, it just ain't gonna happen. Can I have a bazooka when armagedon starts? I always wanted to shoot a bazooka.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[okalb 78]

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Hopefully, one of these days (and yes, I know that it is a very simplistic view) both sides will back up and realize..."Hey, This whole thing sucks. Let's just stop it here and re-think this entire mess."

The reason that it will never happen is simple. Even if 99% of the people on both sides just want to live in peace, there will always be that 1% that likes it the way it is. That 1% is so entrenched in the fighting that they won't give up. When that 1% straps a bomb to someone and sends them into a cafe, it all starts from the beginning again.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[Royd 0]

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Why don't you guys just declare open, free-for-all war and be done with it? Call all your people home and fight to the end, toe-to-toe. Six days should do it.

Is it keepsies this time?

[Darius11 12]

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Funny how Pro-Israeli and Pro-Palestinian groups will argue until doomsday without either one recognizing the position of the other.

Well it can’t be discussed if the facts are not answered.
It seems every time a question is asked it be answered by another questions.

I try to answer questions no matter how stupid they are. Even when you acutely take the time to answer it is asked again and again. So Darius you think it is ok if Muslims kill Muslims? For the 100th time NO NO NO NO I can say it a hundred times, but it is asked again.

The reason is simple. My answer does not fit their narrow view of A Muslim.

What is stated in that video is truth. That is the way Palestinians are treated every day. I don’t see anyone arguing that. They can’t again because it is true.

As for Israel being there it wasn’t that’s why the Israelis celebrate its creation in 48. These are simple facts. People mention oh I know one Jewish guy who lived there before. Well good for you it still doesn’t mean there was a country there, and who were the majority of people living there? I’ll let you answer this one for your self.

Fact: Israel is a racists nation, They have broken more UN sanctions then Iraq, They are noticed around the world and not just by Muslims as an inhumane state.
However we still send them billions of aid every year.

These are all facts. There not made up, from anyone imagination, or a product of hate for people of the Jewish faith. They are simply true.


We even tried to discuss who started it. When someone posted a video of how Israelis did kill man, woman, and child back when they first started their invasion.
Again this is not BS hate it is fact, well-documented fact that even some Israelis acknowledge.

The point of mentioning these facts is this. In the US there is a very one-sided view on the subject. Whenever I have discussed this subject with anyone they have only seen (or have been shown) one side of the story, and a very slanted one-sided story as well.

There is another side and information is out there. As mentioned before you can do a simple search on google and see diaries of people Non-Muslims. Americans, Christians, even other Jews. Take the time and read them. Many have descriptions of what they have seen. It will give you a much better idea of why there is so much hate for Israel.

There is nothing good about Zionism

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Loonix 0]

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Israeli Casualties
Civilian Deaths: 319

Palestinian Casualties:
Deaths: 1,538

So who is "right" is determined by who suffers the most casualties?

You are trying to portray the conflict as a balanced one, or even that the palestinians are the aggressors. This is very far from the truth. These numbers are just an illustration of this.

[idrankwhat 0]

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You are funny, pretending that the Israel - Palestine conflict is secular. As far as I know, Jihad can only be called for by muslims, or is it buddhists that make these calls?

Thank you I needed that.

It's a land dispute. I never said that religion didn't play into it anywhere. Quite to the contrary. They're fighting over a land that is considered holy to three major religions. As for your Jihad reference, I'm not sure that I understand your point. You're using a Islamic term and saying that it only applies to Islam. So you're absolutely right! Well done!

[Darius11 12]

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You're using a Islamic term and saying that it only applies to Islam. So you're absolutely right! Well done!

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[juanesky 0]

Your comments sounds right out of Ahmadinejad's messages. Are you his writer?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[JohnRich 4]

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As for Israel being there it wasn’t that’s why the Israelis celebrate its creation in 48. These are simple facts. People mention oh I know one Jewish guy who lived there before. Well good for you it still doesn’t mean there was a country there, and who were the majority of people living there? I’ll let you answer this one for your self.

Fact: Israel is a racists nation, They have broken more UN sanctions then Iraq, They are noticed around the world and not just by Muslims as an inhumane state.

Don't look now, but your true colors are showing once again.

So, what do you want to happen to the illegitimate nation of Israel, and all those inhumane Jews that live there?

And after you run the Jews off, who do you want to take over? Fatah? Hamas? Palestinians? Shiites? Sunnis? Kurds? Egyptians? Syrians? Iranians? Wahabiists?

[idrankwhat 0]

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As for Israel being there it wasn’t that’s why the Israelis celebrate its creation in 48. These are simple facts. People mention oh I know one Jewish guy who lived there before. Well good for you it still doesn’t mean there was a country there, and who were the majority of people living there? I’ll let you answer this one for your self.

Fact: Israel is a racists nation, They have broken more UN sanctions then Iraq, They are noticed around the world and not just by Muslims as an inhumane state.

Don't look now, but your true colors are showing once again.

So, what do you want to happen to the illegitimate nation of Israel, and all those inhumane Jews that live there?

Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction.

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

There are only four types of people in this world who think Israel have a leg to stand on

Israelis,
Americans,
Jews,
and fucking idiots.

[JohnRich 4]

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So, what do you want to happen to the illegitimate nation of Israel, and all those inhumane Jews that live there?

Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction.

I don't think that's good enough for Darius and other muslims. The fact that they are an internationally recognized legitimate nation doesn't matter to them. They want Israel completely out of the Middle East - driven into the sea.

If Mexico was lobbing rockets into American cities from just across the southern border, would you expect America to just stand by and do nothing, and not go after the source of the deadly rocket attacks?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction.

Illegal? The fact of war is that if you invade a country and get your ass kicked, you often lose territory in the process. There are a couple spots between France and Germany that have swapped nationalities a few times because of this.

The Soviets occupied all of Eastern Europe on those lines. Buffer space is nice. The Russians got invaded so many times in the past century, they were tired of having to fight on the home turf.

[kelpdiver 2]

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There are only four types of people in this world who think Israel have a leg to stand on

Israelis,
Americans,
Jews,
and fucking idiots.

Given the great history of Europeans on handling the Jewish problem, I don't think Israel cares what you think.

[idrankwhat 0]

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So, what do you want to happen to the illegitimate nation of Israel, and all those inhumane Jews that live there?

Leave the territories that they're illegally occupying and expanding. That would be a nice start. Israel does actually have internationally recognized borders. Respecting them would be a step in the right direction.

I don't think that's good enough for Darius and other muslims. The fact that they are an internationally recognized legitimate nation doesn't matter to them. They want Israel completely out of the Middle East - driven into the sea.

You're reducing your argument to extremist talking points. The 2002 Arab Peace Initiative proposed that they would recognize Israel as a state if Israel would leave it's illegal occupation and return to the 1967 borders, along with the Palestinians right of return. Will that be the end result of a peace negotiation? No. but it's a place to start. Israel has to want to start negotiating.
And do you know where the "drive them into the sea" talking point comes from? It's because that's precisely what the Israelis did to 150,000 Palestinians in 1948. There's more to this story than talking points.
See attached pic.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Illegal? The fact of war is that if you invade a country and get your ass kicked, you often lose territory in the process. There are a couple spots between France and Germany that have swapped nationalities a few times because of this.

UN resolution 242 aside, Israel is STILL, to this VERY DAY stealing land.

[Darius11 12]

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There are only four types of people in this world who think Israel have a leg to stand on

Israelis,
Some Americans,
Most Jews,
and fucking idiots.

I agree.
The info is out there if people search for it, but god forbid they find that the truth doesn't match what they want it to

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kelpdiver 2]

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The 2002 Arab Peace Initiative proposed that they would recognize Israel as a state if Israel would leave it's illegal occupation and return to the 1967 borders, along with the Palestinians right of return. Will that be the end result of a peace negotiation? No. but it's a place to start. Israel has to want to start negotiating.

Given that the Arab world doesn't act as one, and have a history of killing off leaders that act to compromise with Israel, it is asking a lot to expect Israel to make all the concessions and hope that the Arabs will act in kind.

Use the word "illegal" as much as you like, but it doesn't really mean anything.

[mnealtx 0]

Treaties and cease-fires aside, Palestine is STILL, to this VERY DAY suicide-bombing innocents.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[okalb 78]

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Illegal? The fact of war is that if you invade a country and get your ass kicked, you often lose territory in the process.

Here is some interesting reading on the subject http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_territories_occupied_or_not.php

Actually the site gets into a lot about how things happened and who has rights to the land. Here are a few other pages there that are of interest:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_territories.php

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_land_1948.php

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[idrankwhat 0]

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The 2002 Arab Peace Initiative proposed that they would recognize Israel as a state if Israel would leave it's illegal occupation and return to the 1967 borders, along with the Palestinians right of return. Will that be the end result of a peace negotiation? No. but it's a place to start. Israel has to want to start negotiating.

Given that the Arab world doesn't act as one, and have a history of killing off leaders that act to compromise with Israel, it is asking a lot to expect Israel to make all the concessions and hope that the Arabs will act in kind.

Use the word "illegal" as much as you like, but it doesn't really mean anything.

If Israel really wants peace, as they say they do, then they need to take whatever olive branch is presented as an opportunity to start negotiations. If, on the other hand, they don't feel like they've gotten all the land that want, then they continue doing what they've been doing. And I use the term "illegal" because they're violating numerous international laws. That's what makes it "illegal".
We invaded Iraq for much less.
Also, refusing peace talks because of the notion of "I don't know if they'll go for it" is guaranteed to prevent any peace. And no one is asking for Israel to "make all of the concessions". That's not how compromise works.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If Israel really wants peace, as they say they do, then they need to take whatever olive branch is presented as an opportunity to start negotiations. If, on the other hand, they don't feel like they've gotten all the land that want, then they continue doing what they've been doing. And I use the term "illegal" because they're violating numerous international laws. That's what makes it "illegal".
We invaded Iraq for much less.
Also, refusing peace talks because of the notion of "I don't know if they'll go for it" is guaranteed to prevent any peace. And no one is asking for Israel to "make all of the concessions". That's not how compromise works.

Exactly, compromise is supposed to be on both sides. Clearly that isn't the case. The weaker side is willing to take any concessions but offer nothing but cotinued threats of wiping Israel off the earth in return. The stronger side would never enter such an arrangement.

The illegal talk is a joke. International law is a joke. In the real world, countries war with each other. There's no court room to protect the loser. That's why Iraq invaded Kuwait. It didn't expect the world to care.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Exactly, compromise is supposed to be on both sides. Clearly that isn't the case. The weaker side is willing to take any concessions but offer nothing but cotinued threats of wiping Israel off the earth in return. The stronger side would never enter such an arrangement.

You're saying that the Palestinians aren't losing anything? I can't say I understand that notion. And the "stronger side" in this case is only stronger because the US has made it so. And Israel is still doing things that the US publicly condemns but apparently privately condones. This is one of the main reasons given by radical Islam for attacking us. Israel is defying the international community, including the US yet no one holds them accountable, because of the US.

The illegal talk is a joke. International law is a joke.
In the real world, countries war with each other. There's no court room to protect the loser. That's why Iraq invaded Kuwait. It didn't expect the world to care.

I'll agree that international law is not uniformly respected or implemented, but that doesn't mean that we should continue to abuse it. It shows our hypocrisy. As for Iraq invading Kuwait, the world only cared because of the number of companies and countries who were profiting heavily from investments in Kuwait. edited to add:....and that it would mean that Iraq controlled 20% of the world's oil reserves and he had been trying to raise the price of petroleum to pay for his war with Iran.

[sundevil777 93]

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Hopefully, one of these days (and yes, I know that it is a very simplistic view) both sides will back up and realize..."Hey, This whole thing sucks. Let's just stop it here and re-think this entire mess."

Actually, that did happen. Anwar Sadat of Egypt did it. He had a true change of heart, despite being previously leading a war against Israel. Where are the current day leaders of the Arab world that are willing to do the same? Israel responded to Sadat's gesture with the same good will. Compare that to the intifada declared by Arafat after he rejected the negotiations that Clinton brokered, when Arafat's own negotiators recommended they be accepted.

The Arab world didn't want to live with what the victors decided after WWII ended. Well, I say tough shit. They were looking for a fight, figuring that they would easily win. They were wrong, and continue to want to cancel their defeat with more war. That only works if they are able to win a war.

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MYTH

“The Arabs were prepared to compromise to avoid bloodshed (referring to the partition).”

As the partition vote approached, it became clear little hope existed for a political solution to a problem that transcended politics: the Arabs' unwillingness to accept a Jewish state in Palestine and the refusal of the Zionists to settle for anything less. The implacability of the Arabs was evident when Jewish Agency representatives David Horowitz and Abba Eban made a last-ditch effort to reach a compromise in a meeting with Arab League Secretary Azzam Pasha on September 16, 1947. Pasha told them bluntly:

The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely, Mr. Horowitz, that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine. But it's too late to talk of peaceful solutions.

Source:
Myths and Facts

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am