mnealtx 0 #26 January 10, 2007 Ok... so you want us to step in when it's for something YOU think is good, and stay the fuck out, otherwise.... got it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #27 January 10, 2007 I’m sitting here, eating my Danish Freedom pastry, contemplating your message. Hmph. And here I was, all ready to ask you to marry my daughter. Well. You can just forget about that now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #28 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think your duality is showing. On one hand you want the USA out of the affairs of the world, but on the other hand you want the USA to stand up to an Iraqi trial and sentencing. It is hard to have it both ways. Which is it? Do you want the USA to play big brother or not? Bigbrother ? NO take responcibility and show the world how good people are act.. If you raise a child you dont show it how to steale and then expect it not to steale.. I want US keeping up the good work arround the world,i however also want US to live up the job they take on to their shoulders.. Again, back to your original question: USA,who are you to tell people? I can't figure out why you can't see the duality of your responses. You start by questioning who the USA thinks they are that they have the right/power to tell other countries what to do, then follow it up with a complaint that we didn't do anything when you did not agree with the trial of Saddam. Maybe that is the problem. You don't know what you want. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #29 January 10, 2007 Quoteso you want us to step in when it's for something YOU think is good, and stay the fuck out, otherwise.... got it. NO,i ask YOU to act the way you ask people outside to act.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #30 January 10, 2007 QuoteHmph. And here I was, all ready to ask you to marry my daughter. Well. You can just forget about that now Lucky me.. im happy married and wouldnt change that for anything in the world.. If your daughter is somthing special well find some one who cares..I dont want her.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #31 January 10, 2007 We travel thousands of miles to a much weaker nation to pick a fight when the Iraqi people were begging not to be attacked, we support terrorist when it is convenient for us. (We supported OBL, and Sadam). We have supported and gave aid to people like Sadam who used WMD, but at the same time that was the false excuse we used to invade. Every one here can bull shit to them selves all they want, but all the facts above are undeniable. Here is the catch. In history every nation who was a super power has done what is right for them, things that are much worst then what the US is doing. One thing you have to remind your self of is this. What would the other nations do if they had our power? You will see we are not as bad as you think. I am recently beginning to realize this my self. It is hard to really see it that way, and I wish it were not that way. I wish we as humans were more evolved, but the truth is we are not. We still can not see our selves as one big humane family, but separate countries and separate people. Who is to blame for that? All of us.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #32 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteso you want us to step in when it's for something YOU think is good, and stay the fuck out, otherwise.... got it. NO,i ask YOU to act the way you ask people outside to act.. No... you griped about us "telling the world what to do", then turned around and griped because we *DIDNT* stop Iraq from executing Saddam, which is evidently something you wanted.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #33 January 10, 2007 well you guys are all so american,i alrady showed what i wanted I said it clearly,i now say it again,then go back home do somthing you like to do. Just act the way you expect the world to act.. If you want to be bigbrother and dictate the world how to live then make sure you live by the same rules.. If you think its cool to kill a person the way Sadam were killed why dont you think its cool other of the horrow we have seen people has gone through down there? perhaps thouse killed junalists got fair trail(not that i think so-and im really disgusted to see what happens from BOTH lines) draw the humiliating death.. Well i think not.. If you want to be a animal be a animal and expect others to treat you so if you want to be human,expect others wont if your teaching them to be so then you better dont be the one whos getting teached... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #34 January 10, 2007 what ever dude,belive in your belif.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #35 January 10, 2007 You know, it's funny. Before I went to Europe, I though everybody over there would be so much more cultured and world-weary than us Americans. Boy, was I wrong. They are just as retarded as we are, except not only do they not realize it, but they've got an ego the size of a Hummer. The difference is, while the rest of the world is being an obnoxious backseat driver, we're on the frontlines trying to do something about. Now we might not be going about it in the most efficient manner, and we sure are making a fuck lot of mistakes on the way, but at least we're trying the best we can in really shitty situation, whereas the rest of the world is just bitching and moaning about what we're doing. Well, why don't you step up to the plate? On one hand you don't want the US to impose its beliefs on the rest of the world. On another hand, you are stating that we should have done something about Sadaam's trial and execution (which was under Iraqi jurisdiction, not US jurisdiction.) And finally, in doing so, you are also imposing your beliefs on the death penalty on an Iraqi trial and execution through the US. So, what is it you actually want?This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityJunky 0 #36 January 10, 2007 QuoteYou have to appreciate the irony of another country telling the USA that they shouldn't be telling other countries what to do... ------------------------- VERY WELL SAID!*My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too! *Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge *Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie} Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #37 January 10, 2007 QuoteSo, what is it you actually want? I think we both have proven he is clueless to that. I give up. Talk about "damned if you do, and damned if you don't!" steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityJunky 0 #38 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo, what is it you actually want? I think we both have proven he is clueless to that. I give up. Talk about "damned if you do, and damned if you don't!" ------------------------------ True, I guess it's like talking to a brick wall! No wait I take that back, brick walls are easier to hold an intelligent conversation with. (apologies to brick walls everywhere.)*My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too! *Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge *Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie} Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #39 January 10, 2007 QuoteUSA,who are you to tell people? The irony in your post is great...bitching about the US getting involved in other business...Hello!!!! What do you think you are doing? QuoteWell,first WE(inkluding my country) started a war in Iraq based on the "fact" that he had weappons of mass destruction,well he didnt but we got rid if that evil dictator right? Then you should ask why YOU invaded as well. Don't just blame the US. Quotewe would have made sure that Sadam got his ponisment if a fair envioment.. What is more fair than the very people he lead judging him by their laws? If we had brought him to the States, you guys would be crying how we killed him without a fair trial. QuoteWell another country builds neuclear energy The problem is not the energy, but the weapons. They are not building CANDU reactors, they are wanting to build wepaons. So power = not an issue. Weapons in the hands of a country that has sworn to wipe another country off the face of the planet = Problem QuoteGuys if you want to be the worlds police then rember that if you want people to follow certain rules then you has to follow them self!!!! I wish we could just get out of everywhere. Stop sending money all over the world and close up our borders to almost everyone. But that is in no way able to happen. How about YOURcountry do something? Start with Darfur...Fix it. Go ahead, we will wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #40 January 10, 2007 QuoteThe difference is, while the rest of the world is being an obnoxious backseat driver, we're on the frontlines trying to do something about. Now we might not be going about it in the most efficient manner, and we sure are making a fuck lot of mistakes on the way, but at least we're trying the best we can in really shitty situation, whereas the rest of the world is just bitching and moaning about what we're doing. Well, why don't you step up to the plate? Maybe the best thing said on here in years. It is easy to sit in the back after the fact and say what you would have done better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #41 January 10, 2007 QuoteAgain, back to your original question: USA,who are you to tell people? I can't figure out why you can't see the duality of your responses. You start by questioning who the USA thinks they are that they have the right/power to tell other countries what to do, then follow it up with a complaint that we didn't do anything when you did not agree with the trial of Saddam. Maybe that is the problem. You don't know what you want. I think it can actually be summed up pretty easily: You really shouldn't invade sovereign nations with bogus reasons. but, if you do decide to dot hat, you may want to actually have a plan and do a half decent job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #42 January 10, 2007 I’ve made no secret that I disagree with the Bush government on many things. But really, you’re not criticizing the particular acts of a particular government; all you’re doing is playing the age-old, childish game of America-bashing. It’s been done with regularity, particularly by Europeans, since at least the early 20th Century. You learned it from your parents, who learned it from their parents. Some day, you will teach it to your children, who will teach it to their children. Predictably, you’re getting a rise out of some people here; but I, for one, choose not to jump to the bait in earnest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #43 January 10, 2007 Quote Back in London, I was having dinner in the Groucho Club—this week’s in-spot for what’s left of Britain’s lit glitz and nouveau rock riche—when one more person started in on the Stars And Stripes. Eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about “your country’s never been invaded.” (This fellow had been two during the Blitz, you see.) “You don’t know the horror, the suffering. You think war is...” I snapped. “A John Wayne movie,” I said. That’s what you were going to say, wasn’t it? We do think war is a John Wayne movie. We think life is a John Wayne movie—with good guys and bad guys, as simple as that. Well, you know something, Mister Limey Poofter? You’re right. And let me tell you who those bad guys are. They’re us. WE BE BAD. We’re the baddest-ass sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. We’re three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our mother’s side. You take your Germany, France and Spain, roll them all together and it wouldn’t give us room to park our cars. We’re the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap D’Antibes. And we’ve got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go. “You say our country’s never been invaded? You’re right, little buddy. Because I’d like to see the needle-dicked foreigners who’d have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying ‘Cheerio.’ Hell can’t hold our sock-hops. We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, fuck longer and buy more things than you know the names of. I’d rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all you Europeans. We eat little countries like this for breakfast and shit them out before lunch.” Of course, the guy should have punched me. But this was Europe. He just smiled his shabby, superior European smile. (God, don’t these people have dentists?) -- P.J. O’Rourke - “Holidays In Hell” from the Chapter, "Among the Euroweenies" My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #44 January 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteAgain, back to your original question: USA,who are you to tell people? I can't figure out why you can't see the duality of your responses. You start by questioning who the USA thinks they are that they have the right/power to tell other countries what to do, then follow it up with a complaint that we didn't do anything when you did not agree with the trial of Saddam. Maybe that is the problem. You don't know what you want. I think it can actually be summed up pretty easily: You really shouldn't invade sovereign nations with bogus reasons. but, if you do decide to dot hat, you may want to actually have a plan and do a half decent job. Let's say we (me & you) agree to that summation. Do you really think he'd have no other beef against USA? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #45 January 10, 2007 God damn, I've only read a little bit of O'Rourke, but this reminds me, I need to read a lot more..... That's just brilliant....This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #46 January 10, 2007 Now, for a more serious reply to it: It's amazing how many self-important people fail to see the completeness of incongruity of their statements. Indeed, it is intellectual dishonesty! "Open your mind and shut your mouth" is another way of saying I'm right, you're wrong. Back in college, the in thing to say was that right and wrong cannot be stated because of different values of different societies and even segments of societies. These were the people who would tell me how wrong I was to state, "That's fucked up." "You can't say that!" As much as I tried to explain to them that, by their logic, my viewpoint was just as valid as anybody's, they never seemed to get it. And the complete dishonesty of the statement, "Who are you to tell people?" is pretty evident. Inherent in the statement is, "You don't tell people? I tell people." You don't have a problem with anybody telling anybody else anything that YOU agree with. The disagreement comes only when the viewpoint is different from yours. Rather than discussing the underlying substance of the statement, you challenge the person's authority to make statements, which is fine so long as the challenge is both objective AND the challenge is consistent regardless of the nature of the statement or activity. I'll put it this way - your technique, if used for the reply, would result in: "Who are you to tell?" "Oh, yeah? Who are you to ask who I am to tell?" "Well, who are you to ask who am I to ask who are you to tell?" "Who are you to ask who I am to ask who you are to ask who am I to tell?" "No, who are you to ask who I am to ask who you are to ask who am I to ask who are you to tell?" It's a technique that gets you nowhere. Much like, "I'm not going to dignify that with a response." I've heard that, and that's when I know, "I've got him!" My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #47 January 10, 2007 Last time I was at Eloy I had a long conversation with a Norwegian jumper who echoed a lot of the things you said in your post. Basically, Norwegians see the US as a bigger and bigger bully, who no longer cares if what they do is right. The US is the 800 pound gorilla that gets whatever it wants and does whatever it wants, consequences to others be damned. To her, it's becoming the USSR of the new century, trying to spread its ideology all over the globe, and destroying those who stand in its way. Fortunately that's starting to change. The people of the US issued a pretty resounding vote of no-confidence in the last election. A lot of people are starting to think the Iraq war was a really bad idea, and that we should put a lot more effort into diplomacy than into killing. Will things change? I don't know, but at least people here are starting to wake up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #48 January 10, 2007 QuoteWell? Our Decider does what he chooses. A plurality of us didn't vote for him in 2000 (he won with 50,460,110 votes to Gore's 51,003,926) and as few as 30% of us currently approve of his actions (according to the latest Zogby poll; Fox could only show a 40% approval rating). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 January 10, 2007 QuoteNow, for a more serious reply to it: It's amazing how many self-important people fail to see the completeness of incongruity of their statements. I've got a couple more - "well, at least people here are starting to wake up" "open your mind" (this one just needs repeating) "evolve" and "it's so easy a caveman can do it" and it is always tied to something subjective they disagree with ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #50 January 10, 2007 Quote"evolve" I think this goes against some religions. Quoteand "it's so easy a caveman can do it" Cavemen never existed.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
