Fantasyfreak 0 #151 February 26, 2006 I have to say that I dont agree with abortion.Im a christian and I belive murder is murder no matter how you look at and its a sin.Theres always adoption if you dont want the child.Other than being to young and not being able to handle it...I dont know how ANY woman could give up a child...Even If It was cause I was to young Id to every damn thing I could to keep my baby.I just couldnt do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #152 February 26, 2006 QuoteI have to say that I dont agree with abortion.Im a christian and I belive murder is murder no matter how you look at and its a sin.Theres always adoption if you dont want the child.Other than being to young and not being able to handle it...I dont know how ANY woman could give up a child...Even If It was cause I was to young Id to every damn thing I could to keep my baby.I just couldnt do it. 1. Please define murder. 2. Do you believe you have the right to control what another person does? 3. Are you a woman? 4. Do you have children? 5. Do you have any idea what it takes to rear a child to adulthood? That's just the start. When you've answered these, I'll have more questions. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #153 February 26, 2006 QuoteIt sounds like you're describing moral relativism. I think that not many would agree that there are no moral absolutes. No. Sorry if I was unclear. I'm speaking to the law of it, rather than the morality of it. For me, there can be a distinct difference between the law and morality. In this case, abortion is not something that I am willing to impose my morality on another for. Nor shall I make judgments on those who do or do not have abortions. I say it is between them and God...and that is a realm I don't think the law should be involved in. Is that more clear? QuoteAre you saying that the father should have a say in it? Yes, in a perfect world, in most cases the father would have a say. Not the ultimate say (that should remain solely with the woman), but have his feelings and needs heard, understood, and valued. QuoteIt would seem that you have to conclude that it is not a life until birth, or that mothers have the right to kill their unborn children. Wow. Please don't assume what I have to conclude in that argument. I have concluded simply that it is not my place to say to someone "you will have an abortion" (in the case of handicapped children) or "you will not have an abortion." It simply isn't my place to make the decisions for another person. Not my place at all. It is only about personal choice. Pure and simple. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #154 February 26, 2006 You are very presumptive and demanding. You know very well people can't just do what they want.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #155 February 26, 2006 QuoteIt is only about personal choice. Pure and simple. Purely and simply, it is about whether, and when, it is a life worth protecting as any other. That protection is granted by law to other lives. I think you are avoiding the tough questions of whether and when it is life until birth, or whether a mother should be allowed the choice to kill it at any time. Purely and simply. If it seems that I'm not in a good mood, it is because I'm not. That's what happens when spouses choose to make convenient choices about tearing their families apart. I will stop posting for tonight. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #156 February 26, 2006 Sundevil, I read your other post. I don't see you as not in a good mood, but rather as hurting and debating a subject which might not be the best one at the moment. We can pick this up another time...and you take care. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #157 February 26, 2006 > You are very presumptive and demanding. Your one warning. Note that whenever you post something that starts with "you are . . ." you should pause and think carefully before hitting the "post" button. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #158 February 26, 2006 Personally, I would never have an abortion. However, I do not believe that it is my right to tell another woman that she can/can not have one. It is her body. By banning abortion, all that South Dakota is doing is taking safe, medical attention away from women and putting doctor's in a position to do things illegally as well as women seeking other ways to abort - some of which could end up with both the woman and fetus dead.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #159 February 26, 2006 I had a friend in high school who drank turpentine when she became pregnant to cause herself to miscarry. People will find a way to terminate their pregnancies if they want to. " I have never for one instant seen clearly within myself. How then would you have me judge the deeds of others?" --Maurice Maeterlinck-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #160 February 26, 2006 Quote Every Sperm is Sacred From: The Meaning Of Life by the Monty Python Team There are Jews in the world. There are Buddhists. There are Hindus and Mormons, and then... your best post ever ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygurl 0 #161 February 26, 2006 I resent having the "right" morality dictated to me by someone else, especially a state or country. No government has the right to force me to have a child. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #162 February 26, 2006 Quote I resent having the "right" morality dictated to me by someone else, especially a state or country. No government has the right to force me to have a child. It is not unusual for the goverment to dictate morality through laws. Some think that there should be no law restricting what a mother can do when the baby is still inside her body, no matter when. I think that is not reasonable. I think those that disagree would do better to focus their debate on why being inside their body, no matter what stage of development of the baby, is all that matters. The govt imposes morality in many ways, I think that at some point the life must be protected as any other.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygurl 0 #163 February 26, 2006 When a fetus is old enough to sustain itself without my body then it's life is it's own and should be protected. Until then, I will not have a baby because a soverign entity tells me I have to. I haven't had an abortion and don't ever plan to, but I believe it's my choice to make desicions about my own body. If you want to protect the "life" of the fetus then you carry it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #164 February 26, 2006 you.. no more masturbating for all you guys.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #165 February 26, 2006 QuoteQuote I resent having the "right" morality dictated to me by someone else, especially a state or country. No government has the right to force me to have a child. It is not unusual for the goverment to dictate morality through laws. . Once upon a time you could be burned at the stake for heresy or stoned for adultery. It was wrong then and it IS wrong now for governments to legislate morals.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #166 February 26, 2006 QuoteWhen a fetus is old enough to sustain itself without my body then it's life is it's own and should be protected. That is a much different position that what was implied by your earlier post. Thanks for clarifying.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #167 February 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote I resent having the "right" morality dictated to me by someone else, especially a state or country. No government has the right to force me to have a child. It is not unusual for the goverment to dictate morality through laws. . Once upon a time you could be burned at the stake for heresy or stoned for adultery. It was wrong then and it IS wrong now for governments to legislate morals. Aren't there a LOT of laws that are accepted without controversy, that are in fact based on morals?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygurl 0 #168 February 26, 2006 Okay. Let's take murder for example. It could be argued that it's moral legislation. Fine. It's also a belief that as a social norm it's wrong. Few people think it's okay to kill another person. That abortion is the murder of an unborn child is not a commonly held social norm. The "morality" that is legislated is usually based on norms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #169 February 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I resent having the "right" morality dictated to me by someone else, especially a state or country. No government has the right to force me to have a child. It is not unusual for the goverment to dictate morality through laws. . Once upon a time you could be burned at the stake for heresy or stoned for adultery. It was wrong then and it IS wrong now for governments to legislate morals. Aren't there a LOT of laws that are accepted without controversy, that are in fact based on morals? Does that make it right (correct) for the government to dictate morals? (for clarification: it is certainly right as in neo-con to do so).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #170 February 26, 2006 QuoteThat abortion is the murder of an unborn child is not a commonly held social norm. After a certain point during the development, I contend that it most definitely is a commonly held social norm.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygurl 0 #171 February 26, 2006 Abortion isn't safe to perform after a certain period of time. I agree with that, but not outlawing early termination. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #172 February 26, 2006 Quote Abortion isn't safe to perform after a certain period of time. I agree with that, but not outlawing early termination. Still have women dying in childbirth too. Childbirth is not safe.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #173 February 27, 2006 >It was wrong then and it IS wrong now for governments to legislate morals. Suppose a man decides that all hookers are evil, and starts killing them systematically, because in his system of morals they are better off dead. Should the government try to stop him, or should they not interfere in his moral decision? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #174 February 27, 2006 QuoteDoes that make it right (correct) for the government to dictate morals? (for clarification: it is certainly right as in neo-con to do so). Sort of like "PC-speak" laws, John? It's certainly right as in liberal to do so....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #175 February 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have to say that I dont agree with abortion.Im a christian and I belive murder is murder no matter how you look at and its a sin.Theres always adoption if you dont want the child.Other than being to young and not being able to handle it...I dont know how ANY woman could give up a child...Even If It was cause I was to young Id to every damn thing I could to keep my baby.I just couldnt do it. 1. Please define murder. ---------------------------------------- Murder is illegal killing, there are various degrees of it. If it will stop your spin, I will just call it killing human life. =================================== 2. Do you believe you have the right to control what another person does? ----------------------------------------------- Did you forget, your freedom ends where my nose (or anybody elses, including and unborn child) begins. Or do you just want to put in your exception for this. ========================= 3. Are you a woman? --------------------------------------- This is such a crock because most women do NOT think the way you are suggesting. Or maybe it just that I am have mostly decent moral women I surround myself with. I guess atleast its better that way because I do look down at anybody willing to kill another in anything other than self defense. ================================ 4. Do you have children? ------------------------------------------- Another meaningless ploy, just as stupid of a statement as when Kallend stated it. By that line of reasoning, I have never owned a slave so how would I know if that is the moral thing to do. ================================= 5. Do you have any idea what it takes to rear a child to adulthood? -------------------------------------------- More of the same crap, trying to discredit somebody's logical statements because they make your's look stupid. moving along ============================ That's just the start. When you've answered these, I'll have more questions. rl Their is a start when you, when you start to understand that maybe we can move foward onto a more meaningful disscussion. But first you need to come to terms with the facts. ,If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
