Guns for Hire?

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

On Friday, it was too windy to jump. So, we watched videos. One of the guys had a military training video. Very cool. Guys jumping with huge barrels and a ton of gear.

When the training footage ran out, he had "battle" footage from Iraq. At first, he said, "You guys don't want to see this." Of course, the guys did want to see it. So, we watched.

The footage was taken on top of a building. A man was shooting people running away from a building off in the distance. The people being shot did not have weapons and some of them were wearing white shirts.

The off camera guy commented on how many people the shooter had taken down - giving kudos.

I stopped watching.

Afterward, I discussed this with a fellow jumper. He said that the guy was an ex-military guy and part of a group of men that were hired as independent contractors to go to Iraq.

My question is this:

Are there no rules when we are at war?

Shooting an unarmed person as he/she runs away just seems wrong.

Maybe they were a group of really bad men, but they didn't have weapons. Why not take them alive?

Is this what has to be done to "WIN" the war?

Does anyone police the subcontractors?

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[SkyDekker 1,123]

just like when you don't want to torture a guy, just ship him to a country where they do torture them and ask for the info after.

[CornishChris 5]

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Shooting an unarmed person as he/she runs away just seems wrong

Slight correction - Is wrong.

Of course there are rules for war. Rule one, you would have thought, is if you are going to break the rules, don't video it and play the tape at your DZ. If you are truly outraged by this then get the tape and hand in to the appropriate authorities.

We don't know what the situation was but all this does is undermine the people and nation involved.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Tonto 1]

That's why they're "contractors."

There is no doubt (at least not from the number of ex SA military guys who are currently in Iraq) that the US is using Mercs for their
campaign. Truth is, they answer to no one.

There are many, many video's such as the one you viewed.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[mr2mk1g 10]

The Hitchhikers Guide to Modern Warfare:

Don't want your troops to have to murder people - employ mercs.

Don't want to be caught torturing people - give your detainees to "allies" for a while.

Don't want to be forced by your constitution to give human beings basic human rights - hold your detainees overseas in a country outside the reach of your constitution.

Don't want to be forced by international laws you set up to give human beings basic human rights - reclassify your detainees as "enemy combatants", a term you just made up, and low and behold discover that there are no rules for how you treat "enemy combatants" on the books.

[Jimbo 0]

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Shooting an unarmed person as he/she runs away just seems wrong.

How do you know that they were unarmed? The reality is that you, and anyone else who wasn't there, don't know what type of threat those people posed.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

We need to get the damn reporters out of there, so people can get the job done efficiently, without people playing Armchair General/Moralist. It's like making sausage- Not pretty to watch the process, but the end result is pleasing.

[kallend 1,623]

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We need to get the damn reporters out of there, so people can get the job done efficiently, without people playing Armchair General/Moralist. It's like making sausage- Not pretty to watch the process, but the end result is pleasing.

Pleasing to you maybe. I doubt anyone classified as "collateral damage" is too pleased with the outcome.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

[

Shooting an unarmed person as he/she runs away just seems wrong.

[Ron 7]

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Shooting an unarmed person as he/she runs away just seems wrong.

What if that person had just detonated an IED, or was planting one when you found them?Just because they don't have a gun, does not mean they were not doing bad things.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Pleasing to you maybe. I doubt anyone classified as "collateral damage" is too pleased with the outcome.

I don't think anyone inured or killed in a conflict is happy with the outcome. Even alot of those physically un-injured aren't happy with the outcome.

War is ugly. Don't let loose the dogs of war and expect a made for TV mini-series. Laws of warefare? Hah! Rule #1: Don't die. That's it. Everything else is gravy.

Derek

[billvon 2,400]

>What if that person had just detonated an IED . . .

And what if the locals thought a US soldier was going to torture them? Is it OK for them to shoot him, in self defense?

[Ron 7]

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>What if that person had just detonated an IED . . .

And what if the locals thought a US soldier was going to torture them? Is it OK for them to shoot him, in self defense?

There is a BIG difference between a person who just blew an IED or just planted one, and a guy that *might* do something.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,400]

>There is a BIG difference between a person who just blew an IED or
>just planted one, and a guy that *might* do something.

As I recall, you have in the past defended the US killing people because of what they might do. "Hey, he might have been reaching for an RPG!"

[Ron 7]

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As I recall, you have in the past defended the US killing people because of what they might do. "Hey, he might have been reaching for an RPG!"

You "sort of" recall correctly. If I am in a fire fight and a guy that was just shooting at me with an AK-47 but dropped it starts reaching for something...Yeah, I'd shoot him.

But if some guy was just waltzing down the street reached for something you have to identify a threat (which he may have just done), define the threat (Is he reaching for a gun, or a cell phone?), then handle the threat if it materializes.

If a guy is doing nothing and reaches for a cell phone nothing will happen to him...But if he just shot a magazine of 7.76mm at me, then drops his gun to reach for a cell phone, he might just get popped.

If a guy is running down the street without a weapon...Maybe he is just out for a jog. But if I just saw him detonate a bomb then go run...I'd shoot him.

So you "sort of" recalled my comments correctly.

That of course didn't stop you from misquoting them to your benefit.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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A man was shooting people running away from a building off in the distance. The people being shot did not have weapons and some of them were wearing white shirts.

What difference does it make what the color of their shirt is?

[AggieDave 6]

Well, it would have been obvious if they were wearing black shirts that they were in a biker gang and up to no good.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

You're right - I wasn't there. I have absolutely no idea what was going on. It's possible that they could have been a group of highly trained special weapons guys for the other side, and maybe a group of our guys flushed them out of the building. I really have no idea.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[Kennedy 0]

Rule #1 of newsreel footage:

"What it looks like" and "what it is" are often two very different things.

Start with realtv and work your way up and out of the "news" cesspool from there.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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don't video it and play the tape at your DZ.

This is a great point. I REALLY didn't need to see it.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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Truth is, they answer to no one.

How can that be? They can just do "whatever" they decide is necessary to do their jobs?

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[billvon 2,400]

>What difference does it make what the color of their shirt is?

We would surely get more upset if the shirt in question was a US uniform.

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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Lets not forget that the mission in war is to kill your enemy.

I thought the goal of war was to attain something (be it real property, freedom, peace, etc.) or to cause/create change.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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What difference does it make what the color of their shirt is?

I think that stuck in my head because the guy said something about it on the tape. You're right ~ it doesn't matter what they were wearing.

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...

[jumpjunkie2004 0]

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What if that person had just detonated an IED, or was planting one when you found them?

Is apprehending them an option?

Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat...