Volunteers to patrol Arizona-Mexico border

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm sorry for being an accident and the subsequent reason that my parents saved all their money for a vasectomy.........

I guess I'm also sorry for my mom having to drop out of night classes for her master's degree and take a part-time job after teaching during the day.

So you and your brother were both accidents?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

In many parts of Europe the child of illegals (or even legal guest workers) is not a citizen. In The US today illegals know that even if they have to live their life as illegal, their children get citizenship as long as they are born in the US. Perhaps if people knew that their children were going to never be full members of society, less of them would make the trip.
Would this require a constitutional amendment? or just (just) an act of congress?

[KevinMcGuire 0]

I believe that it came from the smokinggun.com web sight

[JctRsp 0]

Oh I saw plenty of those problems. I grew up surrounded by cotton fields and saw many people not able to get a job because they couldn't work as cheaply as the mexicans could. People would come in and out of my schools during cotton season and enroll in the ESL class. There's problems with every theory, and I personally don't buy into the theory that a free border is an end-all solution....I just threw out at there as food for thought.

[BRYANGOESBOOM 0]

its Nick Nolte

its his mug shot

[JctRsp 0]

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So you and your brother were both accidents?

Yeah, I'd say he's an accident since he was born in May and they got married in November (pushed that wedding up a bit).

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I just gotta ask, where is that pic you have from? It's kinda freaking me out a little bit.

IIRC that was a mugshot of Nick Nolte several years ago when he was arrested for a DUI.

[EBSB52 0]

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Should a country be able to set and enforce its own immigration policy?
Yes or No.

_________________________
I like this guy's approach
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yes!!! free lunches for everyone!! we can pay the hospital bills by going to the money tree and plucking a few bushels. if that doesn't work, we can go get the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! i hope the little leprechauns won't mind...maybe we could all work for free and make sure that everyone gets everything whether they are productive or not. we could call it happy land!!!

I still haven't read anyone saying they would just stay there in poverty because it's the law if it were them and their family. We know your American perspective of shot em where they stand, but how about your hypothetical Mexican perspective of trying to get your kids healthcare?

[EBSB52 0]

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This post is to no one in particular so I'm replying to myself.....

Most everyone is either complaining about too much security at the borders (essentially making it so hard for illegals to feed their families that they die in the process) or simply not enough protection from a grossly underfunded Border Patrol. While both of these have their merits, have any of y'all read the studies on immigration for the best way to control illegal immigrants?

I've read numerous studies and surprise surprise, the best way to deal with immigration is a free border. The basic premise is that a certain amount of immigrants will cross each year, and they'll simply go to the least fortified area to cross. Now, since we beef up the security on the border, it gets increasingly harder to cross. Well, this means illegal immigrants will cross the border and stay over here forever because it's so difficult/dangerous to cross.

However, in a more free border there is a flow of immigrants in and out of the country and illegal immigrants are much less likely to stay in the USA for extended periods of time, thus reducing the amount of illegal immigrants in the country.

Now yes, this does have huge security issues, but I just felt like the thread needed someone to discuss the different theories of border control rather than just say ours suck.

But what do I know, I won't even get my BS for another 54 days, 7 hours and 55 minutes.

I hear what you're saying, but I think it's pretty easy to cross back to Mexico. The logic that more control means a tighter ship is BS. Look at prohibition in the 20's, look at the war on drugs - both ineffectove.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

The logic that more control means a tighter ship is BS. Look at prohibition in the 20's, look at the war on drugs - both ineffectove.

[Ron 7]

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Let me ask this Kevin, what would you do if you were a Mexican National? WOuld you stay oppressed in your 3rd world nation, or try to get out for the best for your family and send money home? Which is more OBJECTIVELY honorable?

Why os it MY job as an American to pay for a Mexicans Health care? Just cause they can sneak accross the border?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[stratostar 5]

NO Kevin I'm in no way joking about that post!
SHOOT THE MOTHER FUCKERS!
And I don't care what fence their jumping over north or south, we are at a time of WAR, are we not?
Yes we are and that is our line, you cross it without the permission of us, you are an invader and in a time of war you should be SHOT!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[gkc1436 3]

>if you were one with no knowledge and/means of legal immigration

gimmi a break....they know where the check points are....thats why their sneaking thru the desert.
means???
stand in line, sign the book, walk thru the gates....simple as that
want to stay....just stay like everyone else....
oh, its breaking the law?....oh well, everyone does it,
its called overstaying your visa....just ask around at your DZ,

and i understand that we were counter attacked

[EBSB52 0]

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The logic that more control means a tighter ship is BS. Look at prohibition in the 20's, look at the war on drugs - both ineffectove.

War on drugs? Prohibition? What? Man your all over the place here. Stay on topic and stop trying to drag this into some sort of Geopolitcal argument about how every thing else has failed so we should just give it all away.
We will probably never stop the flow of illegal immigration but we must slow it down.
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I still haven't read anyone saying they would just stay there in poverty because it's the law if it were them and their family.
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Well I guess that this argument makes everything O.K. Their system has failed and so now ours should fail also? How many do we let into the life boat before it sinks and kills us all?
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We know your American perspective of shot em where they stand,
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What the fuck are you talking about? Who said that?
Oh wait, that is just more of that inflammatory rhetoric crap designed to create fear regarding what the volunteers are doing. You forgot to add. Kill em all. let god sort em out.
I get it.

[Ron 7]

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Testing logic by using other major issues is logical.

It is also a strawman.

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The point made is that tightening things down won't work.

Removing all restrictions also does not work.

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I haven't taken a stance on Mexican immigration whatsoever in this thread

Why don't you take a stand instead of slamming other peoples? Its called the "show you mine of you show me yours" line of thinking.

Otherwise we have a term for you...Its called sniper. You sit back and never offer anything of value, but pop up and take pot shots at others ideas.

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While you're at it. explain the viability of gross Capitalism through examples of current America. Don't forget Enron and the sort.

Sure, Capitalism even with the EXTREME case of Enron and the sort works much better than Communism that has failed on a large scale over and over. It works in the long term better than a Dictatorship, or Monarchy as evidenced time and time again.

You can "snipe" and use Enron and Martha Stewart...Ect all ya want. Want me to list the Companies where Capitalism works?

I could just open almost any phone book, but lets keep it simple.

How about Sandler O’Neill & Partners? They lost 66 of their 171 employees in the WTC. Despite its dire financial straits, the firm sent every deceased employee’s family a check in the amount of the employee’s salary through the end of the year and extended health-care benefits for five years.

Or how Bank of America donated office space for them to use?

Competitors sent commissions their way and freely gave the company essential information that was lost with the traders who had died. Bigger Wall Street firms took it upon themselves to include Sandler in their deals.

For every example of a "bad" business, I can find plenty more that are "good". Of course nothing can withstand a lazer focus and all organizations have issues, but to claim that due to a few issues or a few Large "bad" companies that all are is an example of an Inductive Fallacy . The ones you use here are:

Hasty Generalization: the sample is too small to support an inductive generalization about a population.

Unrepresentative Sample: the sample is unrepresentative of the sample as a whole.

And when you compare things like the War on drugs to border patrols and Illegal imigration you are using, False Analogy: the two objects or events being compared are relevantly dissimilar.

See you fall into the general trap of cynicism

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The Media Research Center conducted a survey of 863 network TV sitcoms,
dramas, and movies from 1995 to early 1997. Nearly 30 percent of the criminal characters
in these programs were business owners or corporate executives. Entrepreneurs
were represented as drug dealers (Beverly Hills, 90210), kidnappers (Nash Bridges)
or sellers of defective gear to the military.9 Fortune magazine called this “the rise of
corporate villainy in prime time.”10 More recent movies with a negative message
about corporate America include Civil Action, The Insider, and Erin Brockovich.
Academic research on the representation of business in movies suggests that cynicism
toward American business increased after study participants viewed the film Roger &
Me, which depicted ruthless plant closings and layoffs at General Motors.

But its more fun to "snipe".

Class can anyone identify this Fallicy?

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And mine is inflamatory rhetoric? I think the mere presence of the volunteer border guards exhibits the fear-mongering

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gkc1436 3]

>Are you sayingthese volunteers don't have the attitude that these Mexicans are somehow trying to rob America?


how many bankrupt hospitals will it take.

how many dead americans due to speeding stolen vehicals filled with illegals will it take.

during the debates, the number 7000 a day was used, do the math, we cant absorb that

IKE was the last president to have balls enough to deal with this, he enacted OPERATION WETBACK
rounded them all up and sent them back...
no political motives....just did the right thing

g

[jdhill 0]

It would require and Amendment... Granting citizenship based on being born in the US is part of the 14th Amendment.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[KevinMcGuire 0]

how many bankrupt hospitals will it take.

how many dead americans due to speeding stolen vehicals filled with illegals will it take.

during the debates, the number 7000 a day was used, do the math, we cant absorb that

[DrunkMonkey 0]

We need to do two things:

Berlin Wall-style wall between US and Mexico. Anyone in the no-man zone is summarily arrested.

Other than stabilizing care, no free fucking rides at hospitals.

Convert the torch on the Statue of Liberty to a giant middle finger.

[jdhill 0]

that's three things...

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[DrunkMonkey 0]

I have ADD, and I was a Politics major... Politics necessitates creative math.

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[TheAnvil 0]

How about sentence any illegals caught in the US to two years hard labor prior to deportation. That hard labor will be spent digging a border trench 50 feet wide and 25 feet deep along the border. Prior to leaving, they get to watch parts of it being mined!

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jdhill 0]

I heard on the radio today that the program has already resulted in 18 arrests of illegals... and it hasn't even officially started yet.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[sabr190 0]

"Perhaps your parents should have assessed their financial situation more carefully and evaluated whether it was prudent to have children when they clearly could not afford them.

This remark has to be the best example of poor taste I have ever seen

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[rhino 0]

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I heard on the radio today that the program has already resulted in 18 arrests of illegals... and it hasn't even officially started yet.

Not bad...

Americans need to start taking responsibility for their own safety the same way the Iraqi's do. It's up to the people as the government cannot do everything..

Rhino