Terri Schiavo... Died

[wmw999 2,123]

Quote

but do you really think she wouldn't want her parents and siblings there on her death bed?

Would she want them there at all costs? Because that's what it might have been. The fact that they were able to visit her, film her, etc. is pretty much testament to the fact that MS is trying to give them as much as he can within the boundaries of what he considers to be TS's wishes.

He probably couldn't choose to have them there, and peaceful and accepting, at her death bed.

I can really empathize with her parents -- it would be hellish. But I'd hope that if I were in the same situation, I'd listen to expert opinions. It's not like the people who recover after a couple of months of coma and "vegetative state." She never made any progress whatsoever in a number of years of very aggressive therapy (they switched facilities a number of times looking for cutting-edge rehabilitation). That would be indicative of a lack of capacity for growth.

Some people are happy to have their existence be independent of them -- families can be ennobled by taking care of a completely disabled member, be it an infant who will never mature, or an old person who is descending into senility.

But if, when you were able to express yourself, you said that you didn't choose to be someone else's fulfillment, but that you wanted to remain your own, those wishes should be respected.

Much has been made of her not having told her parents. Ya know, when I was her age, I sort of assumed they'd figure out what I wanted -- and I was a skydiver with a real possibility of devastating injury. But I damn sure hadn't told them.

Her parents are in hell right now. They would be no matter what, but by exploring every single nook and cranny of the hell they're in, and not trying to see if there's anything outside, they haven't helped either themselves or their daughter.

Those poor people, all of them.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

>I'm sure Lori choose to marry a murderer.

Lori DID choose to marry a murderer; she just didn't him well enough at the time to know he was capable of that. People do make mistakes. A good solution to that is to make sure you know the person really well before marrying them, because they _will_ have the power of life and death over you when you are unable to state your wishes. (Unless, of course, you have a living will that states otherwise.)

So at what point do you know someone really well? When is okay to marry someone that you THINK you know really well? People change over the years, change that can be unforeseen.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[unformed 0]

Do you think she would have wanted her parents and siblings to send death threats to her husband?

Do you think she would have wanted her parents and siblings to drag her life out over fifteen years, to have them remember her as being a vegetable for a good portion of her life, to have her bring back memories of court cases and public hysteria, instead of memoris of things she did when she was alive?

I live my little brother to death, but if he's ever in a vegetative state, I wouldn't want to remember him in that state. Let him go in peace, and we can remember the good memories.

MS probably didn't want them at her "death"bed for
1) the way they treated him throughout the years.
2) she's been fucking dead for fifteen years; get over it, let her go peacefully, and continue with your life.

I honestly don't think her parents had her best wishes at heart either.

This ad space for sale.

[billvon 2,400]

>So at what point do you know someone really well?

Each person has to decide that on their own.

[Lindsey 0]

I think that you're making assumptions that denigrate both the institution of marriage in general and more specifically Michael and Terri's commitment to each other. Even though God knows there are a lot of bad marriages out there, I think that we have to assume that when a person chooses to marry someone, then they have chosen to make that relationship primary in their lives.

Most anyone can make a baby. That takes no commitment to the person's life whatsoever. Most kids will grow up, with or without parents who love them. When a person chooses a spouse, I hope he/she takes those vows seriously, because marriage is more than a choice to live lovingly together forever. It's a contract that gives partners a degree of legal responsibility for each other. My assumption would have to be that two people in any marriage are totally committed to each other and that their relationship is the most sacred of all relationships. There are definately exceptions, but until a person takes the steps to legally dissolve that relationship then the marriage remains the primary relationship, imho.

I'm very, very close to my parents. However, they are not the people I would want making these kinds of decisions for me. It's not because I don't think they would do the best they could. It's just that the nature of our relationship is that of mother-daughter or father-daughter. They have raised me. They have nurtured me and always done what they believed was best for me and my future. They don't know me as an equal, though. They don't know me as a partner. They don't know my deepest heart or mind. The person whom I have made a commitment of marriage with, would know those things (except, of course, in MY case, in which my marriage SUCKED...lol.)

Peace~
linz.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

I'm very, very close to my parents. However, they are not the people I would want making these kinds of decisions for me.

You don't even want them their on your death bed? How sad for them.

I live 2000 miles away from my family, I watched my dad die 2 years ago on saturday. When they decided he wasn't going to get better or even survive the ride home, they called me and I came because he wanted me there. I can't imagine not having your family there at least those that wanted to be their.

If Terri had a horrible relationship with her family, they sure aren't showing it.

j
Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Ron 7]

Quote

I know parents kill their children too, as well as spouses. MY POINT is he should have let them see her at the end.

Your point was that spouses should not have the right to make these choices since they sometimes kill each other.

A bad argument that fell very quickly.

Quote

My point is not everyone has all the info all the time to make choices.

Wrong MS had all the info he needed. She told him.

You may not agree with that, or that he had it, but it was clear that her parents did not have any proof to the contrary.

Quote

I don't and more than likely never will believe MS ever had her best interest/wishes at heart

Give me one reason he tried to ge her rehabilitated for 7 years?

Give me one reason he didn't divorce Terri like her parents and others wanted...Even offered to PAY him to divorce her? ONE reason.

Quote

She may not have wanted to live incapacitated as she was, but do you really think she wouldn't want her parents and siblings there on her death bed?

As I said in another thread, I don't agree with that choice, but I understand it...Her parents had been a real pain in the fucking ass....going so far as to accuse Mike of abusing Terri and even causing her condition.

What fucking crazy nutbags. I would not let then near her either, it would have been a bigger circus than it was...You know there were jugglers there right?

She would hahve passed and instead of it being quite and peacful they would have been yelling and calling Mike a murderer.

I'd rather she pass quietly if she was my wife.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

I'd rather she pass quietly if she was my wife.

But several people on here said she died 15 years ago so he was widowed 15 years ago. So why would he care now? If she dosen't know what's going on and hasn't for 15 years why would he even care who wanted to be with her when her body ceased to function. According to all the courts he pleaded to they said she was dead 15 years ago so it appears, apparently only to me, that he has a different agenda. How much do you think he will get for the movie?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[wmw999 2,123]

The person she was died 15 years ago. Her body did not die with her brain. If she said that she did not want to live that way, would it really be right for him to say "fuck her, she doesn't know what's happening so I'll just do what's easiest."

If you wanted your ashes spread in freefall, would you be pissed if it didn't happen? Obviously not, because you're dead. But if your spouse wanted it for himself, would you do whatever was necessary to make that happen? Or if someone objected because it was "unseemly" would you go ahead and cave in because he doesn't know any better?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Quote

I'd rather she pass quietly if she was my wife.

But several people on here said she died 15 years ago so he was widowed 15 years ago. So why would he care now? If she dosen't know what's going on and hasn't for 15 years why would he even care who wanted to be with her when her body ceased to function. According to all the courts he pleaded to they said she was dead 15 years ago so it appears, apparently only to me, that he has a different agenda. How much do you think he will get for the movie?

j

You're really not making much sense here.

Given what I've seen from him so far, I'm not sure he'd be too happy for there to be a movie. I wouldn't doubt that her parent's would though.

[Ron 7]

Quote

But several people on here said she died 15 years ago so he was widowed 15 years ago. So why would he care now?

He cared for 15 years...If he didn't care he could have left at anytime.

You never gave me one reason he didn't leave when he was offered money to go.

Quote

If she dosen't know what's going on and hasn't for 15 years why would he even care who wanted to be with her when her body ceased to function

Then why would it matter if her parents are there?

Simple answer..Her parents made his life miserable. Calling him a murderer, accusing him of abusing her, Accusing him of putting her in that condition.

Frankly I would not let them in either. They were acting like assholes the entire time...They would have made a scene then as well.

Quote

According to all the courts he pleaded to they said she was dead 15 years ago so it appears, apparently only to me, that he has a different agenda

You never gave me one reason he stayed...

I'll give you one. He loved her and he wanted to carry out her wishes.

Quote

How much do you think he will get for the movie?

Her parents have already sold the names of those who contributed to this situation. Mike has done nothing of the sort.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jlmiracle 7]

Yes I would be pissed if my written wishes were not met. If the court said she died 15 years ago then why deny the parents the right to see their child when she passes. The guy has a live-in girlfriend to go home to and continue on doing what he HAS BEEN doing for years.

Did Terri want to be cremated? Was that MS's wish, the new girlfriends wish or part of our great court system?

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[wmw999 2,123]

What if you hadn't written your wishes, but just told your husband.

What if he didn't write them down, but just told you want he wanted -- would you take less care in carrying them out?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tigra 0]

The only thing I know for sure about all of this is that its sad, even sadder because what should have been a private family matter became such a circus. Even now, we are all dicussing this like we KNOW these people. As far as I know, not a single person who has posted to these threads has met any of them. We're forming opinions on all of these people based on what's been reported in the media and our own life experiences and personal and religious beliefs. Michael Schiavo is either a hero or a villain. A lot of people identify with the Schindlers because they are grieving parents- even if we think what they did to prolong her existance as long as they did was wrong, most of us can sympathise with them. But in the end what this is (or was) is a private family matter we all know very little about! I hope all the parties can at some point find some kind of peace now that Terri Schiavo has found hers.

[wmw999 2,123]

What she said.

As an object lesson of the worst possible consequences, this is pretty good, which is really sad, because these are all real people.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ron 7]

Quote

If the court said she died 15 years ago then why deny the parents the right to see their child when she passes

Because the parents were acting like assholes for the last 7 years calling him a murderer, and a wife beater. If there were there it owuld have been a circus. Lots of yelling, name calling ect.

Quote

Did Terri want to be cremated? Was that MS's wish, the new girlfriends wish or part of our great court system?

Parents claim no, he claims yes. Mentioning the GF and the court has nothing to do with this.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[03CLS 0]

Quote

Quote

I know parents kill their children too, as well as spouses. MY POINT is he should have let them see her at the end.

Your point was that spouses should not have the right to make these choices since they sometimes kill each other.

A bad argument that fell very quickly.

Quote

My point is not everyone has all the info all the time to make choices.

Wrong MS had all the info he needed. She told him.

You may not agree with that, or that he had it, but it was clear that her parents did not have any proof to the contrary.

Quote

I don't and more than likely never will believe MS ever had her best interest/wishes at heart

Give me one reason he tried to ge her rehabilitated for 7 years?

Give me one reason he didn't divorce Terri like her parents and others wanted...Even offered to PAY him to divorce her? ONE reason.

Quote

She may not have wanted to live incapacitated as she was, but do you really think she wouldn't want her parents and siblings there on her death bed?

As I said in another thread, I don't agree with that choice, but I understand it...Her parents had been a real pain in the fucking ass....going so far as to accuse Mike of abusing Terri and even causing her condition.

What fucking crazy nutbags. I would not let then near her either, it would have been a bigger circus than it was...You know there were jugglers there right?

She would hahve passed and instead of it being quite and peacful they would have been yelling and calling Mike a murderer.

I'd rather she pass quietly if she was my wife.

I would to, but


The law is the only thing that matters, LETS SAY THAT SHE NEVER REALLY SAID THAT SHE WOULDN"T WANT TO LIVE IS THIS STATE and her husband said that she if fact did...........same result quit feeding her.

[Ron 7]

Quote

The law is the only thing that matters, LETS SAY THAT SHE NEVER REALLY SAID THAT SHE WOULDN"T WANT TO LIVE IS THIS STATE and her husband said that she if fact did...........same result quit feeding her

Ok how would you feel if the roles were reversed?

Lets say Mike wanted her to live, but the parents say they knew she would want to die...

What would you say then?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,400]

>So why would he care now?

Because he gave his word when he got married.

>How much do you think he will get for the movie?

The only people who have profited so far have been her parents.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

Then why would it matter if her parents are there?

Because they were her parents and they wanted to be their for her. Unless you can prove they were abusive or neglectful they had as much right to be with her when she passed as you all think he did.

Quote

Simple answer..Her parents made his life miserable. Calling him a murderer, accusing him of abusing her, Accusing him of putting her in that condition.

They just haven't proven it yet.

He lacks sincerity.

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Because they were her parents and they wanted to be their for her

Prove that.

They wanted to keep her around for THEM, not her.

Quote

Unless you can prove they were abusive or neglectful they had as much right to be with her when she passed as you all think he did.

Wrong. He was her HUSBAND. Like I said before that trumps "Parents" every time. You choose your spouse, not your parents.

Quote

They just haven't proven it yet.

They also didn't start such BS claims till after he finally realized she was gone (7-8 years) and asked the judge if he could remove her feeding tube. The parents loved him till then. Only after he tried to carry out her last wishes did they start to slander him.

Quote

He lacks sincerity.

Your opinion. I think her parents are a bunch of wacko's that would like to see her stuffed and mounted in their living room so they can feel better.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Lindsey 0]

LETS SAY THAT SHE NEVER REALLY SAID THAT SHE WOULDN"T WANT TO LIVE IS THIS STATE and her husband said that she if fact did...........same result quit feeding her.

She still had the power to choose her spouse. Good decision or bad. Upon entering a marriage, adults, in effect, choose who will make life and death decisions for them. If she neglected to make her wishes known, she had chosen a spouse who would, from the day they were married, have the responsibility to make these decisions for her to the best of his ability, based on his very intimate knowledge of who she was.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[justinb138 0]

Quote

The only people who have profited so far have been her parents.

Personally, I think her parents would push a movie deal more because it would give them a chance to bash on her husband more, rather than just for the money.

The fact that they made money off of this whole thing is disgusting, and almost as bad as all of the media whores who flocked to the nearest camera to speak their opinion for the free airtime (now I guess Jesse can get back to MJ, where the media will be next week)...

[03CLS 0]

Quote

Quote

The law is the only thing that matters, LETS SAY THAT SHE NEVER REALLY SAID THAT SHE WOULDN"T WANT TO LIVE IS THIS STATE and her husband said that she if fact did...........same result quit feeding her

Ok how would you feel if the roles were reversed?

Lets say Mike wanted her to live, but the parents say they knew she would want to die...

What would you say then?

It wouldn't happen because there her parents :)


Not my point! The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what was said or not said, he has the legal right and can make it up, where was HIS proof, oh that's right we had this conversation like 20 years ago and she said she didn't want to live like this. What if she was in a coma and the whole time was like you F'ers put the fedding tube back in me.


Fox reported that in FL in someone is to be cremated it is the law that a autopsy be done.....If this is the case it's not like Mike so was doing anyone a favor.

[flyangel2 2]

Michael's lawyer is on CNN right now talking about the whole situation with Terri's parents.

Terri's mother had already said that she didn't want to see Terri again and the last time she visited was Easter, and had said that was going to be her last time.

Terri's father was in the room with Terri (she was still alive) when medical people said that he needed to leave so they could do an assessment. When he refused to leave, there was a big conflict with the police, and they had to remove him from the room so that the health assessment could be done.

Michael then decided that it would be best not to allow Terri's father back into the room because he was being such a pain towards the medical personals and not allowing them to do their work.

Michael made the right decision, keep the drama out of the room. It was the parents that let their emotions get the best of them so they messed it up for themselves.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey