Terri Schiavo... Died

[jlmiracle 7]

I thought you gave up on this sometime yesterday? Why do you keep commenting on it?

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[billvon 2,400]

>Actually no, I think to keep her alive for 7+ years was a cruel as he
>could be . . .I believe he strung them along too long.

You're right. As soon as she collapsed after her heart attack, a shotgun blast to the head (or perhaps a simple cyanide injection) would have made her family feel a lot better. I'm sure they would have understood. It took me a while to understand your logic, but I see it now.

Now if you will excuse me, I am off to have a beer (a Yellowtail preferably) with Rob here.

[jlmiracle 7]

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So if he had ended this at one year or less after her accident would you still be just as mad at him?

I guess none of you get why I'm mad. This is last time I will try to explain - I don't expect anyone to agree with me or side with me, Its just the way I feel.

1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

4. MY impression of him - insincere. He and especially his attorney give me the creeps. I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

My family is important to me. It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media). I can't blame them for loving their daughter.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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You're right

I know I am - thank you for seeing that Bill.
Oh yeah, you might want to read my whole post.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

I don't know enough about the case to comment here.

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2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

So he's the one responsible for making the family think Terri was fine and would recover? Hmmm ...

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3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

This is one of the sad parts of this story (I actually hope he doesn't shut the family out of some sort of memorial/funneral). But obliously the Shiavos and Schindlers did not get along and having people fighting with each other while someone is dying doesn't seem right either.

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MY impression of him - insincere. He and especially his attorney give me the creeps. I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

You're allowed to have this opinion and well many lawyers are just scrum to begin with (Sorry Lawrocket ... I just call them as I see them). And I do argee that staving the poor woman is bordering on barbaric. I believe that she was a veggie, but why couldn't they have simply put her to sleep instead of starving her?

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It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media). I can't blame them for loving their daughter.

Her family loved her that's for sure. But this case was more about the religious people trying to impose their values on the rest of society than anything else (and this battle is only beginning).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Vallerina 2]

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I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

Recently, my grandfather suffocated to death. It was my family's decision. Anyway you die is, generally, unpleasant.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I thought you gave up on this sometime yesterday? Why do you keep commenting on it?

No. What I said that it was becoming circular and so I was leaving OR maybe it was that it was time for me to go home?

One of those is true. I leave it up to you to figure out which one.

You keep forgetting that her parents WERE there right before. The only reason they got booted is because they started making a scene. They did not know she was going to die right then. Its their fault.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[wmw999 2,123]

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You keep forgetting that her parents WERE there right before

Actually, only her father and brother. Her mother decided not to go after Easter Sunday. And yes, the exact moment is not a sure thing.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GTAVercetti 0]

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You keep forgetting that her parents WERE there right before

Actually, only her father and brother. Her mother decided not to go after Easter Sunday. And yes, the exact moment is not a sure thing.

Wendy W.

My bad. I should have said family instead

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[airdweller 0]

Apparently the courts at all levels disagree with you

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There are alot of problems with our court system at all levels.

Judy
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You are correct in that there are alot of problems with the court system, but not in dealing with this issue.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[jlmiracle 7]

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2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

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So he's the one responsible for making the family think Terri was fine and would recover? Hmmm ...

Well, yes because according to the "law" its his decision.

As far as the "religious" people imposing their "values", it happens every day at least here in the US.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[dorbie 0]

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2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

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So he's the one responsible for making the family think Terri was fine and would recover? Hmmm ...

Well, yes because according to the "law" its his decision.

As far as the "religious" people imposing their "values", it happens every day at least here in the US.

Bwahahahah

How dare he hold out hope for 7 years, wheeling her around in a wheelchair, trying to stimulate her brain hoping against all odds that she might improve, then eventually resign himself to the realization that hope had faded.

Yup, it's HIS fault that Terri's folks still have hope, blame the guy no matter what, and of course according to you with his wife in a vegitative state for 15 years he's still a dirty adulterer because he has found another partner in the long lonely years since Terri became immobile. Again it's all his fault according to you!

Personal comments about J removed. As always attack the idea, not the person.

[rehmwa 2]

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As far as the "religious" people imposing their "values", it happens every day at least here in the US.

As far as the specific individuals of various backgrounds imposing their "values", it happens every day at least here in the US


There, I fixed it for both of you. It's not just the extreme religious (keyword is extreme, not 'religious'), it's all the self congratulating groups - and that is not restricted to a specific political party either.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Nightingale 0]

Terri was NOT brain dead. Being in a "vegetative state" is not the same as brain death. She still had some lower brain functions, and sometimes, in certain cases, people with brain damage can improve. He tried everything he could and took her to many different doctors until there was nothing left to do and no hope for improvement. He tried everything that could be tried, and rehabilitation efforts for brain injuries can take time. When all efforts had been exhausted with little or no improvement, he began efforts to have the feeding tube removed. It's been tied up in court for almost a decade.

[billvon 2,400]

And they're still fighting. From MSNBC:

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Their arguments continued over the matter of laying Schiavo to rest. The Schindlers, who are devout Catholics, wanted their daughter’s remains buried in Florida, where they live. Michael Schiavo, however, has custody of the body and plans to have his wife cremated.
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Time for some Solomonic wisdom, I think.

[Ron 7]

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Time for some Solomonic wisdom, I think.

Yep, cut her in half.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

So he should have shot her on the spot? He wanted toake sure she was gone. If he had tried a day later, I would have found that strange.

Also, I am sure that her wishes were along the lines of "No hope for recovery" I am betting that he really tried to bring her back. Reports said that he kept trying things long after the Dr's said she was gone.

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2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

He gave then no such BS. Religious nutbags and Dr's looking to make money gave them hope.

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3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

Totally false. They were in the room till they started acting like assholes. Then they were told to leave since they were acting like assholes.

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4. MY impression of him - insincere. He and especially his attorney give me the creeps. I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

Your impression is not law. I know plenty of folks that don't like other folks. Your weekend boss is hated by many.

Starving her was the only way to end it.

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My family is important to me. It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media). I can't blame them for loving their daughter.

I can't blame Mike for loving his wife.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[flyangel2 2]

When Jack's family was giving me shit about where to lay Jack to rest, I had him cremated, which was his wish. Then I gave the family some of Jack's ashes.

I can understand where Michael is coming from. He has had to deal with that family for a lot longer then I had to deal with Jack's. At least now they leave us alone, and my boys have them all figured out.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[jenfly00 0]

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Even if they did w/o him being an ass (which I doubt), what does it really have to do with anything?

Because she shouldn't have to die with ONLY her cheating husband by her side and yes he cheated on her, he broke their marriage vows. He should have divorced her years ago.

Desperate people do desperate things during severally emotional times. I'm sure non of you have ever rallied the troops for your cause. I just have more compassion for her parents than the "husband".

J

Her parents became obsessed beyond all reason.

I'm not saying they were 'bad' people, but they were out of control. The problem is, when one is in the middle of the emotional storm one can't see how emotional, unreasonable and even bizarre their behavior is. They are unable to to see how their statements and actions are completely at odds with what is really happening. They kept coming back time and time again, ignoring the facts of the virtually unanimous medical and legal opinion.

Sometimes you just got to stop and let it go, ya know what I mean?

Jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[jenfly00 0]

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So if he had ended this at one year or less after her accident would you still be just as mad at him?

I guess none of you get why I'm mad. This is last time I will try to explain - I don't expect anyone to agree with me or side with me, Its just the way I feel.

1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

4. MY impression of him - insincere. He and especially his attorney give me the creeps. I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

My family is important to me. It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media). I can't blame them for loving their daughter.

Yep, that's what pretty much comes across. You're determined (for whatever your reasons) to hate this guy ... whatever and whenever his actions were.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[EBSB52 0]

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So if he had ended this at one year or less after her accident would you still be just as mad at him?

I guess none of you get why I'm mad. This is last time I will try to explain - I don't expect anyone to agree with me or side with me, Its just the way I feel.

1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

4. MY impression of him - insincere. He and especially his attorney give me the creeps. I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

My family is important to me. It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media). I can't blame them for loving their daughter.

1. He didn't follow ...
2. He strung along ...
4. MY impression of him ...

It sounds a bit like an Ad Hominem. Is this about him or about her? I realize her wishes are vicariously delegated by him, but she chose him so whatever you say about him vicariously transfers to her because:

1. She decided to mary anyone, knowingthese matters become the general interest of said spouse.
2. She decided to chose this guy. If you chose an attorney and he/she fucks you, then you made a bad decision.

1. He didn't follow her wishes promptly. Brain dead is brain dead.

He is the general owner of those decisions. Also, how do you know she didn't say for him to do whatever could be reasonably done, then pull the plug if all is lost? I would have been critical if he pulled it very soon. Polls have indicated that he acted prudently. Now the religious right and much of the church would disagree, but they are focused on their agenda.

2. He strung along her family for too long giving them false hope.

This makes no sense. Ho strung them along how? He didn't create this mess, he didn't want for this, he dealt with it in a way that is considered prudent. Please tell me what was strung along.

3. Her family was not allowed in the room until after she died.

From what point? From the feeding tube removal until her death? If so, was there a reason like they would have forcibly tried to insert the tube? I think this lacks a few details.

MY impression of him - insincere.

OK, so did that translate to imprudence, I mean objectively, not in your opinion?

He and especially his attorney give me the creeps.

Few attorneys don't give me the creeps - what's the point?

I don't think anyone being starved to death is looking the best they have in their life.

She wasn't starve to death by force. She could have eaten whenever she wanted, it's just that she lacked the capacity to do anything for herself except breath.

It appears to me that Terri was important to her family and they were desperate enough to call in the troops (media).

Call in, they couldn't beat the meadia off with a stick. No one called anyone in, they just allowed an abundant source of hounds in. I think they used the media just as the media used them.

We could rehash this to death, but I just want to understand the logic pathways here and see if they are being even somewhat followed with all like issues.

1. Sanctity of marriage: Should we allow gays to marry? If marriage decisions recognized today can be overruled by parents, it must not be a very supreme bond, so all the other aspects of marriage should be considered very casually as well. You can't have it both ways and pick-n-choose.

Even courts ecognize the sanctity of marriage - if you're being tried for any crime, your wife cannot be compelled to testify against you. The courts, the church, and all other entities place marriage high, but you want to tear it down by allowing other relatives to supercede intra-marriage decisons, why?

2. Cost - how can we pay for this when our current medical pay structure doesn't allow this? Most people that are for the forever support of this now dead woman also oppose socialized medicine; is there any consistency of logic there?

Summation is: like most things the religious right does and somewhat the conservative right does, things come down to symbols. Terri was a symbol of christian solidarity and pro-life, now she a martyr for how evil the secular community is. They are exploiting this shell of a person to their benefit to perpetuate their message, nothing more.

So now that this is finished, they will move on to their next battle of ensuring some SOB murderer of a 5 year old child gets his too. So you see it's not about life, but about control.

BTW, you can lick your elbow... http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=48925

[MC208B 0]

Sad end to a tragic situation. RIP Terry