DEA agent shoots himself in foot while giving a gun safety talk in school

[Kennedy 0]

PM sent, and yes, dispensing self defense advice on the internet does bring a liabilty. You'd never lose in court, but do you want to face the risk of having to defend yourself there? I'm as worried about that as I am about defending myself on the street.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Botellines 0]

Quote

OK, try to keep up. I asked if anyone had suggested students be allowed access to firearms during school. The answer is no. I asked if anyone suggested all teachers must be armed with firearms. Again, the answer is no.

If you want to "prove me wrong," you have to actually answer my questions.

John suggested that if a teacher wants access to a firearm in school, it should be allowed. You do understand that is not the same thing as issuing them to every staff member, right? You are capable of understanding that difference, yes?

Yes, i know the diference beetwen allowing the staff to carry concealed weapons and mandatory weapons for staff and students. I think it is a bad idea any of them for the reasons already mentioned.
So to answer your question, yes, i am capable to understand the diference. Are you capable of understanding sarcasm, are you? Your first language is English, right? Don´t be cocky about semantics, english to me is just another language i speak.

Quote

Isolated cases? I guess you need to define that, because one could easily argue that school shootings are isolated cases, so maybe you thinks everyone should be allowed guns in schools. Afterall, you wouldn't want to base your school polkicy on "isolated cases," would you?

Schools shotings in a comunity are isolated cases. But if you put together all the communities in the U.S you get pretty much what you have now. A school shooting a year? If you are happy with it, more power to you. I don´t remember when was the last time something like that happened, not just in Spain, but in Europe. Allowing more guns in a school will only provoke more "isolated cases", what will you do when a teacher goes nuts? Arm the principal with an AK-47

Quote

This is the most patently absurd notion I've read in quite some time, even from you.

Is that some sort of personnal attack? if so, you will have to try harder (and risk some time off). You see, I am sattisfied enough with my IQ that i don´t need to put down other people to feel good about myself.

Quote

Guns are used to murder Americans in the neighborhood of nine to twelve thousand times each year. They are used in self defense millions of times each year to stop attacks by criminals.

There are several studies done on defensive gun uses (DGUs) and all have concluded huge numbers of self defense uses occur each year. The FBI puts murders by firearm at 9,638 for 2003.

So go ahead, tell me what statistics "prove me wrong." Go ahead and show that guns are used to take life more often than save life. I dare you.

BWAHAHAHAHA. You dare me!!!! I will forget that because it is quite obvious you are new on Internet. Dude, just so you know, on Internet you can get statistics to prove any point you want to make no matter how ridiculous it is. See you will get them from a pro-gun organization and i will get them from an anti-gun organization. Sorry, i prefer to use common sense.
Anyway, if it is important to you, i will try to get some time to give you those statistics so you can bash my source.

Quote

ps - I'm sure you'll mention the US military killing/death, so I'll discount that now. First, that has nothing to do with guns in the USA, so I hope you can see how irrelevant those nubmers would be. Second, since the military is sucha completely different situation from US civilian life, one could easily argue that every gun in the military is used to save life. So please, either ignore military numbers and we can try for a constructive conversation, or use those numbers and prove my assertions correct.

Let´s not go there, the military doesn´t use weapons to defend themselves, period.

[Botellines 0]

I don´t consider myself an expert here, but since i am not afraid of any liability and maybe this could help anyone i could tell you what i would if i was her.
If ahead of me there is some place where I could find shelter and i wasn´t wearing high heels or anything that would prevent me from running fast, i would just run, i he follows, i yell fire to draw attention.
If i have a tazer or pepper spray, i would quietly get ir ready, like pretending to get the car keys from my purse or something like that. Again, if i can run and there is a place to do it, i would also run while holding my tazer or pepper spray and yelling fire.
if there is no place to go ahead, and no weapons, i would turn around to the lightest place and confront him, while evaluating any scape route behind. No need to make it easier for him offering him my back. If it is indeed a bad guy, i would attempt to strike once in his eyes, throat or croach and run. Very unlikely i could win a fight against someone stronger unless i am extremely well trained.

See, all this may or may not work, it all depends on the individual or the attacker. After all, self defense comes down to increasing your chances while decreasing the bad guy chances, there is not anything you can do to get a guaranteed success.

Regarding what you could do with a gun, i am not trained in using one, so i would probably say it wrongly.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Allowing more guns in a school will only provoke more "isolated cases", what will you do when a teacher goes nuts? Arm the principal with an AK-47

Oh joy, another "blood running in the streets" reply, another "guns cause more crime" answer. Do you really believe this tripe, or do you just like annoying people?

What is it that makes some people so convinced that a gun turns good people bad? We already trust teachers to care for children, we already trust pilots with huge, fast, explosive planes, but when someone talks about guns, suddenly these othewise trustworthy men and women become suspects. Why?
hint: it's called projection, and gun-banners need to get past it

Quote

BWAHAHAHAHA. You dare me!!!! I will forget that because it is quite obvious you are new on Internet. Dude, just so you know, on Internet you can get statistics to prove any point you want to make no matter how ridiculous it is. See you will get them from a pro-gun organization and i will get them from an anti-gun organization. Sorry, i prefer to use common sense.

OK, this may be difficult for you, so read slowly.
There are more sources for gun information than the NRA and VPC. There are scientific studies done with grants, not lobbyists' money. There are government statistics. There are even a few studies done directly for the government.

These are legitemate sources for discussion of cost benefit and other statistics. These are the sources I use, the sources I cite when arguing facts with people.

What are you going to use to disprove them?

Quote

Anyway, if it is important to you, i will try to get some time to give you those statistics so you can bash my source.

Well, if you use a biased, unreliable, non-scientific source, then yes, I will bash them. What's the matter? You know you won't be able to find a legitemate source, so you preemptively try to undermine my having to state as much?

ps - The Brdy Campaign and VPC have both put out such ridiculous statistics and claims that various agencies and reserachers have had to hold press conferences to speak out about the mis-use of their studies. The first one coming to mind is ATF repeatedly stating that gun traces are not a good indicator of guns used in crime, or crime levels overall (in response to Bradys claiming the AWB was effective because of reduced traces).

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[AggieDave 6]

Well, Kallend still stands silent nearly 24 hours later. I guess he actually does have no clue about self defense and his comments about using his intelligence to keep out of situations has been purely fictional. Truthfully it would be that he's just been incredibly lucky throughout his life and with the lack of understanding of self defense he's shown, I hope he continues to be lucky.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Well, Kallend still stands silent nearly 24 hours later. I guess he actually does have no clue about self defense and his comments about using his intelligence to keep out of situations has been purely fictional. Truthfully it would be that he's just been incredibly lucky throughout his life and with the lack of understanding of self defense he's shown, I hope he continues to be lucky.

I sometimes choose not to answer stupid questions.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,155]

pretty sad when you live in a community where you obviously can only be safe if you are schooled in self-defence or only through sheer luck.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I sometimes choose not to answer stupid questions.

It was a perfectly fine question. If you choose not to answer, so be it, it still makes it appear that you really don't know anything about situational awareness and how to conduct yourself if you think there might be danger.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[livendive 8]

Quote

What is it that makes some people so convinced that a gun turns good people bad?

Though this will make it appear that I'm on the opposite side of the gun control argument, I can't let that question pass without thinking of the adage "power corrupts."

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002218156_weblegshooting24.html



Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Quote

I sometimes choose not to answer stupid questions.

It was a perfectly fine question. If you choose not to answer, so be it, it still makes it appear that you really don't know anything about situational awareness and how to conduct yourself if you think there might be danger.

Successful people make their own luck.

Or to put it another way, I have been successful in avoiding for 60 years any situation remotely like like the one that you felt necessary to deal with by pulling a gun.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

Kallend said: Using one's brain is better protection than any gun.

And then said this in another forum: When you need one, you need it, regardless of what you may have thought ahead of time. (he's talking about a Cypres)

---

Professor, what exactly is your stance on the populace being allowed to carry weapons, specifically firearms?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[AggieDave 6]

So you've never had someone attempt a robbery against you while at a drive through ATM. Good for you. I hope your luck continues.

Too bad I couldn't have driven off, 33" mud tires and a 4,000lbs truck would have really hurt that guy pretty badly.


Continue on with your good luck and I hope that the Chicago crime statistics don't catch up with you eventually.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Kallend said: Using one's brain is better protection than any gun.

And then said this in another forum: When you need one, you need it, regardless of what you may have thought ahead of time. (he's talking about a Cypres)

---

Professor, what exactly is your stance on the populace being allowed to carry weapons, specifically firearms?

-
Jim

When I skydive, I "commit suicide" each time I jump out of the plane, as many people have put it.

I do not view getting out of bed in the morning in the same way at all.

Do you wear an aluminum foil beanie to reduce the risk of mind control? Thought not.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

Prof, I asked a simple, and more importantly, a direct question. I expected a direct answer. I know I shouldn't have, but I did.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Quote

Continue on with your good luck and I hope that the Chicago crime statistics don't catch up with you eventually.

It's not just the City of Chicago, it's the area where Dr. Kallend works. Illinois Institute of Technology is located almost directly adjacent to the worst, most crime and drug-ridden housing projects in Chicago. Snipers shot across the interstate from the highrise projects at construction workers installing seats in new Comiskey Park... I was offered drugs by local thugs more often than I can count. Local ROTC cadets are counseled to not go into the local areas off-campus, but to proceed to downtown or to far south areas of the city/southern suburbs.

That area of Chicago is NOT SAFE after dark, and it's not a whole lot better in the light.

I never felt safe there at night,unless there was a White Sox game going on, with its accompanying agumented police presence. The IIT security is a joke.

[blackdog 0]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.....breath......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA.....OMG< breathe.....HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
...only in America.....our tax dollars hard at work.

• Quote

[bch7773 0]

i thought the funniest part of that video was when, after he told everyone the handgun was empty, and it fired, he picks up the assault rifle and tells everyone its empty. Some of the kids start yelling "put it down"


those kids knew more about gun safety then the expert

MB 3528, RB 1182

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

So you've never had someone attempt a robbery against you while at a drive through ATM. Good for you. I hope your luck continues.

Too bad I couldn't have driven off, 33" mud tires and a 4,000lbs truck would have really hurt that guy pretty badly.


Continue on with your good luck and I hope that the Chicago crime statistics don't catch up with you eventually.

Dave,

I have been around for some 35 years longer than you.

I learned to shoot before you were born.

I was a cop before you were born.

I learned to fly before you were born.

I earned a PhD before you were born.

I organized an international scientific conference before you were born.

I was a consultant for the US Navy while you were still in diapers.

I don't need you to lecture me on how to conduct my life.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Quote

Continue on with your good luck and I hope that the Chicago crime statistics don't catch up with you eventually.

It's not just the City of Chicago, it's the area where Dr. Kallend works. Illinois Institute of Technology is located almost directly adjacent to the worst, most crime and drug-ridden housing projects in Chicago. Snipers shot across the interstate from the highrise projects at construction workers installing seats in new Comiskey Park... I was offered drugs by local thugs more often than I can count. Local ROTC cadets are counseled to not go into the local areas off-campus, but to proceed to downtown or to far south areas of the city/southern suburbs.

That area of Chicago is NOT SAFE after dark, and it's not a whole lot better in the light.

I never felt safe there at night,unless there was a White Sox game going on, with its accompanying agumented police presence. The IIT security is a joke.

Don't you find it truly amazing that I have worked there, unarmed, for over 27 years without being killed, robbed, or assaulted? Is it just possible that you are wrong?



PS1 "the worst, most crime and drug-ridden housing projects" to which you refer have all been demolished by order of Fuhrer Daley.


PS2. The Jean Clery Act requires all US colleges and universities to report campus crimes in uniform manner.

The following well known schools all have crime rates per 1,000 enrolled students that exceed IIT's:

University of Cincinnati
University of Kentucky
University of Tennessee-Knoxville
University of New Mexico
University of Iowa
University of Colorado-Boulder
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
Florida State University
University of Connecticut
Texas A&M University
Indiana University-Bloomington
University of Arizona

U. of Arizona has 4x the crime rate that IIT does. Mostly drugs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I have been around for some 35 years longer than you.

I learned to shoot before you were born.

I was a cop before you were born.

I learned to fly before you were born.

I earned a PhD before you were born.

I organized an international scientific conference before you were born.

I was a consultant for the US Navy while you were still in diapers.

Ok. Then if we ever meet I'll give you a cookie.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I don't need you to lecture me on how to conduct my life.

Same here chief. Same here. You also don't have any right to ridicule my life as you have in the past.

At one point I respected you, once you started bashing a friend of mine that was killed and the other 11 that were killed I lost all respect for you. You had to go out of your way to ridicule their memory.

Threat deleted. Do not threaten people on this forum.

It continues with you going out of you way to lecture me on how to conduct my life, to what level of readiness to maintain for self defense. All the while thinly veiled personal attacks attempting to insult my intelligence and belittle my opinion are being slung across cyberspace from you to me.

The adversion has been so strong on my side to hopefully prove the hypocracy that you have become in your arguement. Citing no lecturing on lifestyle and choices, yet you continue to go out of your way to make yourself appear much more intelligent and your opinion more valid. You're wrong.

Opinions are opinions, we have our right to them. Just as I have the right to protect myself, you have the right not to.


Hopefully now that you've gotten angry and your true side has fully shown you will go back and read this and the things that you have said (hell, I'll give you the link for what I was first mentioned, since I doubt you remember, you would consider it below you) and you'll actually see what has been said and what YOU have said.



This post has been typed and posted without anger.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[flyingferret 0]

What is truly interesting about this post. Is that last time Dave, Kallend and I had this argument....oh yes, it has been had before....Kallend took the standpoint that he had more wisdom regarding the need for guns because of the horrible horrendous environment he has survived without one as opposed to us young uns. If I read this right....I think he just came up with more crime at the schools we went to than the one the teaches at.

SO...maybe those of us in rural dang ole Texas have some legitimate wisdom on guns?

Not that it really matters to me John, not trying to pull up past stuff. But as the post above mentioned you have had so many vehement opinions so many times...some of us are starting to remember.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

What is truly interesting about this post. Is that last time Dave, Kallend and I had this argument....oh yes, it has been had before....Kallend took the standpoint that he had more wisdom regarding the need for guns because of the horrible horrendous environment he has survived without one as opposed to us young uns. If I read this right....I think he just came up with more crime at the schools we went to than the one the teaches at.

SO...maybe those of us in rural dang ole Texas have some legitimate wisdom on guns?

Not that it really matters to me John, not trying to pull up past stuff. But as the post above mentioned you have had so many vehement opinions so many times...some of us are starting to remember.

The overwhelming majority of reported campus crime is underage alcohol use. If you feel you need a gun to deal with it, OK by me.

On the whole I prefer to keep away from drunks with guns.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

The overwhelming majority of reported campus crime is underage alcohol use.

and hence creates a completely ridiculous situation and pointless argument, when crime rates OVERALL are used in a discussion that pretty much only relates to VIOLENT crime and the potential need for defense....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.