DEA agent shoots himself in foot while giving a gun safety talk in school

[AndyMan 7]

You've never had Fried Ice Cream?

It's frozen extra cold, breaded and flash-fried for no more than 5 seconds. Real nummy.

Common in chain "Mexican" restaurants. I have no idea if it's authentic.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Newbie 0]

As i said, this was not directed at you (who certainly seems to be a responsible gun owner).

This is directed at the sorts of people who think it's ok to leave a gun in a handbag or in their unlocked drawer while their 5 year old is left unsupervised to play in that room.

Also, if you are at the range with someone else, and you are doing everything right, what's to stop that person deciding they want to go postal right then and there and shooting you even when you are doing everything right?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Kennedy 0]

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Also, if you are at the range with someone else, and you are doing everything right, what's to stop that person deciding they want to

Oh, there's very little that can stop a criminal before he decides to act. (he'd have to be pretty stupid to start his rampage at a shooting range though.

However, I use that analogy to the relative dangers of properly participating in shooting sports. Discussing skydiving and gun crime is fairly useless since there aren't many skydiving crimes to compare it to. However, when discussing gun accidents, as is appropriate to the thread no matter what field marshall kallend declares, skydiving is ripe for comparisons.

Remeber, you can do everything right and die, even on a solo. That's just not the case when shooting. Skydiving relies on nylon and string to save your life. Shooting doesn't involve your life being in danger.

It's that relative safety thing our favorite physicist loves to talk about.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,476]

>If I go the range and there is no one else there, and I follow the
>four rules of basic gun handling, I will leave the range safely.

Unless due to a flaw in the manufacturing of the weapon it explodes and blinds you. Rare, of course.

What newbie posted is exactly correct. Both are dangerous endeavors. If you follow the four basic rules of skydiving (pull, pull at altitude, pull stable, land safely) and jump by yourself on perfect days you are pretty much guaranteed to be OK. Unless, of course, you get the incredibly rare double malfunction. In both cases, a realistic knowledge of the dangers involved will make it safer to participate in the sport.

[kallend 1,679]

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Also, if you are at the range with someone else, and you are doing everything right, what's to stop that person deciding they want to

Oh, there's very little that can stop a criminal before he decides to act. (he'd have to be pretty stupid to start his rampage at a shooting range though.

Maybe not a criminal, but merely careless.

I have heard of cases where cartridge cases have split and done serious injury to the shooter. I have seen a case where a loaded gun was dropped and it fired, seriously wounding the owner's girlfriend (my colleague was a witness for the gun maker in the subsequent lawsuit)..

You can do everything right and still die on the range.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

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Unless due to a flaw in the manufacturing of the weapon it explodes and blinds you. Rare, of course.

Extremely rare.

That's up there with having a piston come off the rod and go through me on my motorcycle.

Unless of course you're using extremely hot reloads, even then they usually don't explode like you're thinking of and *usually* the shooter isn't seriously injured.

A normal modern weapon and factory loads, having a weapon explode is so rare we might as well start talking about lightening strikes on people playing miniture golf on an indoor course.

You're an engineer, you know that literally anything can happen, but the mean time between instances (if they even happen) is literally so large that its pointless in some cases.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,476]

>A normal modern weapon and factory loads, having a weapon explode
>is so rare we might as well start talking about lightening strikes on people
> playing miniture golf on an indoor course.

Or a double malfunction on a skydiving rig. Very rare indeed - IF you take good care of your rig and maintain it well.

[AggieDave 6]

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IF you take good care of your rig and maintain it well.

You obviously don't own a Glock...they actually shoot better when not maintained well and are generally mistreated.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

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You're an engineer, you know that literally anything can happen, but the mean time between instances (if they even happen) is literally so large that its pointless in some cases.

You have any useful numbers for rounds of ammunition sold in the US each year? I can't recall if its hundreds of millions, or higher.

Meanwhile, a main might malfunction 1 in 300 or 500 jumps? Reserve 1 in 1000?

[billvon 2,476]

>They actually shoot better when not maintained well and are generally mistreated.

So they're like new Set-400's!

[AggieDave 6]

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>They actually shoot better when not maintained well and are generally mistreated.

So they're like new Set-400's!

I guess you could say that, but it worked perfectly right out of the box too.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnRich 4]

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You have any useful numbers for rounds of ammunition sold in the US each year? I can't recall if its hundreds of millions, or higher.

Domestic manufacture for 1996:


3,029,000,000  of  .22 rimfire

326,300,000  of  .22-.38 CF handgun cartridges

134,100,000  of  .38-.45 CF handgun cartridges

130,390,000  of  .22-.30 CF rifle cartridges

650,792,000  of  shotgun cartridges


Imported:


1,569,190,000  above .22 caliber 

That is a total of almost six billion cartridges!

[AggieDave 6]

Thank you John, I hadn't had a chance to go googling for those numbers yet.

I can only think of a handful of incidents over the past couple of years where factory loads detonated in the chamber too. There have been quite a few non-fires, bad primers, etc...although having a no-fire malfunction is just annoying, nothing really dangerous to the shooter. Clear the weapon and go on firing...and come to think of it, I can't remember having a no-fire situation on American made ammo. Russian crap ammo (*cough* wolf ammo *cough*) averages about 1 a box for a bad primer or a distorted cartridge that won't load up the ramp.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kennedy 0]

You've truly regressed into the ridiculous trying to prove your point.

By your silly logic, everything is dangerous.

Are you willing to talk about relative dangers now?

I've got my numbers for firearms related accidental deaths. Tell me, at what level do you consider something "safe?"

Or are you so intent on arguing against gun rights that you now have to admit everything is dangerous by your defintion, so your fear-mongering is based in nothing but personal bias?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Newbie 0]

Does anyone remember something about the slide on the Beretta 92F coming loose during testing and hitting the operator in the mouth or head, causing him serious injury?

I tried to google for this but couldn't find anything other than someone mentioning it in another forum. I remember one of the guys i used to shoot with (before large bore handguns were banned here) who had that model handgun mentioning it too so i don't think it's urban myth.

If anyone can find anything to substantiate that, there is proof in that that even by yourself at the range and operating yourself as safe as you like, the weapon can malfunction on you.

I will look for evidence to substantiate that later today when i have more time. And yes, i appreciate the instance of something like this happening is extremely rare, probably unlikely unless 1000s of rounds are put through the thing - although if you were law enforcement or military this might be the norm.

Edited to add - google "beretta" "slide broke" to see what i'm talking about...

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Avion 0]

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Unless due to a flaw in the manufacturing of the weapon it explodes and blinds you. Rare, of course.

Or, somebody reloads their rounds so hot they blow the slide off an otherwise sound weapon, which is less rare

[AggieDave 6]

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Or, somebody reloads their rounds so hot they blow the slide off an otherwise sound weapon, which is less rare

Or they load .40S&W in a .45ACP it slides down the chamber and lodges in the barrel, thinks is a misfire on a .45ACP round and clear the "malfunction" only to ramp a .45ACP round in the chamber, with the ubstruction still in the barrel. Click *BOOM* and the barrel buldges or ruptures.

This is just like someone draing the oil and coolent in their car then driving around at 100mph. Fucking stupid and only happens when respect of the weapon is lost.

It still happens once or twice a year, though...just like how some people fuck up their EPs. Its really straight forward, but sometimes it gets fucked up.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,476]

>It still happens once or twice a year, though...just like how some
> people fuck up their EPs. Its really straight forward, but sometimes
> it gets fucked up.

I agree 100%. It's just odd that when Rob Harris pulls the wrong handle, he's a hero. When Patrick DeGayardon sews his PC pouch closed, he's an inspirational jumper who pushed the limits one too many times and paid with his life. When a DEA agent screws up gun handling, he's an idiot. You can fuck up in either sport even if you are competent, and in both cases the result can be deadly.

[JohnRich 4]

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I agree 100%. It's just odd that when Rob Harris pulls the wrong handle, he's a hero. When Patrick DeGayardon sews his PC pouch closed, he's an inspirational jumper who pushed the limits one too many times and paid with his life. When a DEA agent screws up gun handling, he's an idiot. You can fuck up in either sport even if you are competent, and in both cases the result can be deadly.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I guess it depends upon your perspective. If you're outside the tent pissing-in, he's an idiot. If you're inside the tent pissing out, he's a hero.