sangiro 4 #26 February 12, 2003 QuoteOne simple little question - why does this site remind me of rec.sky more and more?? All the arguements and bickering belongs there and not here. This was a great site once and could be again if people could show a little respect for others and not try to pick apart everything. We've lost some great people due to the nitpicking and bullshit. With all due respect FFF - people who used to not bicker when this was a "great site once" seem to have jumped onto that bandwagon recently. Now what exactly is it that you don't understand? Not for America, but I have served and bled and all that bullshit.... I for one should have asked a lot more often "Who am I serving, and what am I bleeding for?" I'll do it again, but I'd like to have those questions answered first and I'll be very sceptic of any answer coming from a politician.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #27 February 12, 2003 Bill, You need to show me when and where I've said anything derogatory about France...till then, again, please don't accuse me of something till you are sure I've done it. But to reply to your statement "and they take insults to their country no less seriously"...why do you think I don't insult other's countries?? "Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #28 February 12, 2003 >All the arguements and bickering belongs there and not here. This > was a great site once and could be again if people could show a > little respect for others and not try to pick apart everything. We've > lost some great people due to the nitpicking and bullshit. As you are one of the people bringing the bickering here, it seems like you could be a part of making this a great site, if you choose to do so. If not, continue attacking people for not "being proud of america" and see if you like the result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #29 February 12, 2003 QuoteFrance dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultural, political, military. Do you truly believe this? Incredible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #30 February 12, 2003 Sangiro, That is my point exactly...why have the ones that held this place together with humor and respect all of a sudden taking the low road? And others have gone? P.S. Oh yeah, before I forget...I haven't noticed you disrespecting other countries...so apparently you understand why I don't do it. Thank you for that. FFF "Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #31 February 12, 2003 >You need to show me when and where I've said anything derogatory > about France...till then, again, please don't accuse me of something > till you are sure I've done it. I said "we" not "you." There have been two threads so far, on a forum you contribute to, that slam the french. There's even one here: "France dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultureal, political, military." Therefore, do not be suprised when you see other people in France (or the UK, or wherever) slam the US. They are doing to us what we are doing to them. Or be outraged at both, that's up to you. But to be outraged that someone calls the US names, but ignore a long thread about how much the french suck, isn't that consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #32 February 12, 2003 It seems to me that there are roughly 280,562,489 different ways to serve the country. Some are as subtle as raising a good family to contribute to a better future. Some are initially misunderstood like Richard Jewel was in the Olympic bombing case -- he actually was a hero and did save a lot of lives. Some other heros we may never know about because the only memorial to them are some stars on a marble wall -- their heroics so great that we can't even know their names -- not even in death. I guess my point is that, yes, I appreciate the heros that have fought my fight so that I can live in a country that is pretty damn nice compared to the vast majority of the rest of the planet. I also think that they deserve my support in whatever way I can give it to them. However, some of us can't serve in the ways that others can. That doesn't make us any less patiotic and I believe that most of the 280 million or so people in America really do love the concept and ideals of America even if we don't love a few of the things the government is doing. This war is going to be a pretty crappy little escapade and I hate the fact that some of my close personal friends might end up as a name on a memorial wall somewhere. I really detest all of the assholes that are bringing this thing to a head. I watched in horror live TV coverage of about 2,000 people dying and I don't really want to watch that sort of thing in the future -- not either side -- however, if it comes to that, please let it be them and not us this time.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #33 February 12, 2003 Dude, Did you notice that I never said a word about the French?? So, how have I contributed to the derogatory statements? As far as being pro-American, sure I am..and I'll continue to try to understand why others slam countries/beliefs without resorting to namecalling. Why do you think I've not responded to the "French" shots? I'll also try to contribute meaningful discussions here without the nitpicking. It's about respect for others that makes me want to do something better for this world. Or maybe you don't want me to contribute to this forum altogether to try to bring back the fun we had once? Who knows?? I'm not questioning anyone's loyalty to there country - I'm questioning all the bickering. FFF Find a cause, and live it. "Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #34 February 12, 2003 > So, how have I contributed to the derogatory statements? You have not; this forum has. So when you see people in other countries dissing the US, I hope you hold them in no more disdain than you do this forum for doing the same to the french. Nothing against you personally. > Or maybe you don't want me to contribute to this forum altogether > to try to bring back the fun we had once? Not at all; indeed, you are one part of what makes up this forum. Its personality will be a composite of all the people here. We all have to try to avoid bickering, namecalling etc if we want to keep the quality of the discussions here high. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #35 February 12, 2003 Quote and the Canadians are just too stupid. At least we can all agree about the Canadians. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #36 February 12, 2003 Does anyone else see the whole Us/ Them thing as positive and mutually entertaining? I mean, it's so much more more fun to have a whole 'nother country to make fun of. We diss them, they diss us, we all laugh. We all just have to be willing to take ourselves less seriously sometimes... Besides, if we didn't have them to make fun of, we might just turn on each other. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #37 February 12, 2003 QuoteYet you participate in a forum where people aim comments at the French because they're French. Turnabout is fair play. Turnabout? WTF? You live in a state that wants to charge you for the electricity you are willing to donate to them. Is that turnabout too? I have no point in bringing up an irrelavent comment (you live in CA) other than to counter an equally irrelavent one (I post in dropzone.com forums). What is your point? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #38 February 12, 2003 >You live in a state that wants to charge you for the electricity you are > willing to donate to them. Is that turnabout too? Uh, if they were donating power to me and I was charging them for it, then yes, it would be fair play. As I've never sent a bill to SDG+E for the power I've used, it's not really applicable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #39 February 12, 2003 Quote And I'm not buying that serving in the military suddenly makes you more or less patriotic then someone that did'nt. Ummhhh.... let's see we joined for the money? No, the adventure? No, the long periods away from family? No, ummhhh......to play with explosive toys...yes, that's it! Had nothing to do with patriotism. Actually what most of us got out of serving was seeing what living in a 3rd world country was really like...not your typical tourist view of the world. No hot water, no medical infrastructure, over crowding, poor quality of food if it was available at all, etc. It really made you appreciate what we have in the US. Our way of life is not perfect and can use improvement, but we are way ahead of most of the rest of the world. I personally don't listen to those critical of the US (and this includes the democrats) because all they do is bitch about what they think is wrong with us and never suggest a real alternative or offer a workable solution. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #40 February 12, 2003 Gemini, Well put, dude...thank you... FFF "Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #41 February 12, 2003 This is not a reply to you in particular, Bob. I think part of Bill's point is, in general: A. There are people who find it unacceptable that some people in other countries say disagreeable things about the US. Some of them are pretty loud about it B. Some Americans feel very free to make fun of other countries. Look at the France comments as evidence. There are other examples. Bill is just pointing out that an American in group B should understand that there are probably group A people in other countries. And group A Americans should probably understand that there are group B people in other countries. And if these group A and group B people think they have some rationale behind their opinions, then their other-country counterparts probably do too. English is really limited by the lack of a different "you" for specific vs. general usage. (NOTE: this statement is not to be taken as bashing of any type, either US, British, or any other English-speaking country, including users whose native language is not English.) Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #42 February 13, 2003 QuoteAnd I'm not buying that serving in the military suddenly makes you more or less patriotic then someone that did'nt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ummhhh.... let's see we joined for the money? No, the adventure? No, the long periods away from family? No, ummhhh......to play with explosive toys...yes, that's it! Had nothing to do with patriotism. Gemini, I don't think that military service is the only way to express patriotism. There are plenty of people that never served in the military that helped our country more than many people that did. Lots of people enlist for the wrong reasons, and do a half-assed job. And if military service is a qualification to bitch in this discussion, then I'm entitled. I served as well. But my military service didn't mean shit for our country compared to the everyday work of my wife. She is a civilian, with no desire to join the military. She is a teacher. She endures petty administrators just as clueless as many military leaders. She endures low pay and working conditions worse than many military REMFs. She does plenty to help the United States, without ever donning a uniform. The fact that she does it year after year without the pretty military medals and victory parades makes all the more important. I respect the people that care to serve their country, in whatever capacity they choose. It is only those who never think to help at all that get my scorn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #43 February 13, 2003 Thank you Justin... I've thought that the teachers in the US are the most under appreciated people around. I think they all deserve a raise and then the military sould havea raise since I've spent time on some bases and seen the conditions they are in.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bill2 0 #44 February 13, 2003 There's even one here: "France dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultureal, political, military." Therefore, do not be suprised when you see other people in France (or the UK, or wherever) slam the US. They are doing to us what we are doing to them. _____________________________ As I stated in my post, the French have been dumping on the US longer than we have been dumping on them. check my 2nd post (this is my third) to go to a blog where the host brings up all the anti_american things said in French newspapers and on French TV, and believe me some of the things said will really piss you off - worse than anything here said about the French. I see some people don't like my statement about the French not resenting us becasuse they can't compete culturally, politically, and militarily. I'm assuming I don't have to explain the military part to anyone (if the Eiffel tower had gone down on 9/11 the French would have come to us for help in counterattacking). The cultural - well like it or not (and I'm not saying that all of American culture exported to the world is good) but we do have a huge influence around the world - far greater than the French do). Politically - the only way they can compete is in the UN or NATO by vetoing any US resolutions which they love to do (while claiming moral superiority and love of peace as their only motivation- and if you believe that I've got some bridges to sell you). France and Germany are the ones splitting apart Europe, not the US as some media outlets have done. Look at the recent letter to the Wall Street Journal online from 8 European countries siding with the US and thanking the US for their past contributions to their freedom. They appreciate what the US has done for them, as well the follow up letter signed by 10 Eastern European countries who enjoy being out from Russian domination. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #45 February 13, 2003 >As I stated in my post, the French have been dumping on the US >longer than we have been dumping on them. You keep proving my point. The US and the French are different. We're currently more powerful. They once were more powerful than us; indeed, they helped us out when we needed help. We helped them out when they needed help. There are good and bad aspects to both countries. If you don't like France, great; you don't live there. We can make fun of them if we choose; if we do, don't be suprised if they make fun of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #46 February 13, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- France dumps on the US simply because it cannot compete with the US on any other level - cultural, political, military. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you truly believe this? Incredible. MON SAUVEUR!!!!!! lmaoRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #47 February 13, 2003 Hey, welcome back Remi! So what was it like to live in a country where everything was apparently so awful? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #48 February 13, 2003 Quote MON SAUVEUR!!!!!! lmao Il est sympa. Je l'aime. Je le veux. Viva la France! That's all the French I know. That's OK though because France and Canada are cultural wastelands.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #49 February 13, 2003 LOL.... I just have the passport, never lived in France.... I just like to go over Europe and steal their jobs... ungratefull sons of... lol But gimme foie gras and Sauterne over Mickey Dees abd Coke any day! lmao What really makes me read these threads with amusement now (as some may remember, I used to get pretty hot and bothered with the Oh America the Pure statements in the past) is that many of the people making derogatary comments about other cultures have never seen and experienced these cultures... nothing like ignorance to fuel xenophobia.... PS: us canadians arent stupids.. we're just slow.... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #50 February 13, 2003 Quote Je le veux Sure hope you werent refering to Skreamer!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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