AFFI 0 #26 April 24, 2007 Quote If you are going to correct somebody, make sure you're right first is all I'm saying. You are totally and in everyway – INCORRECT! If a fellow skydiver on every load wants to actually lay their hands on me because they think they see a problem with my gear, what is the problem with that? If they are mistaken, then they are increasing their body of knowledge if they are right then I am increasing my body of knowledge and not DEAD (as in no longer among the living, unable to hug loved ones or watch sunsets - ya know, dead). I had to wait 7 years and thousands of jumps before I finally found a misrouted chest strap on the airplane and how many times I thought I saw a problem and actually had someone checked is quite a few. Right or wrong, it is our job to look out for one another, and even if you are WRONG (mistaken), but if you think you see a problem wth someones gear, CHECK IT! Even if they have a shitty I don’t need gear/pin checks cuz I take care of myself attitude. Just imagine, for a moment what it must have been like for that person a few years back, struggling, trying to stay in their harness when they slipped out of it, hanging on with their feet desperately trying to reach up an take a hold, only to have it slip away. Imagine what it must have felt like, those first few moments watching in horror as their gear got smaller and smaller as they fell away. Imagine what it must have felt like for the surviving love ones – or maybe those that where sitting on the airplane on the way to altitude and did nothing about the misrouted chest-strap! I would imagine those sitting in close proximity must have felt bad that they did nothing, when a misrouted chest-strap was sitting within reach and they did nothing and it resulted in the death of one of our fellow jumpers (I did not bring up the gender of the deceased because it can happen to any of us)... Now tell us that you don’t want someone to check your gear if they THINK they see a problem… Pride - it is the undoing of all of humanity... -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 April 24, 2007 Quote If you are going to correct somebody, make sure you're right first is all I'm saying. Side Note: I do like to imagine people I've just met with penises growing from their heads - kind of the equivalent of imagining that the crowd you're speaking in front of is naked... but funnier... Funny visual The first comment - you know what?, I just did to you what I objected about you doing to the other guy. Sorry about that. I suspect in "real life" that you actually do encourage that type of guy to speak up even when wrong - most all of us do. We need more people like that guy - provided they are polite in their attempt to help and not being creepy or self-superior about it. Damion and AFFI - Before we gang tackle the hottie, I wonder if her single example we actually someone being a "Hey everybody - skyninja is going to die but I just SAVED HER LIFE from her own ......" I know people like this. If so, they do need to be looked at funny. Contrast to someone polite and well meaning trying to help...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #28 April 24, 2007 Quote I wonder if her single example we actually someone being a "Hey everybody - skyninja is going to die but I just SAVED HER LIFE from her own ......" I know people like this. If so, they do need to be looked at funny. Contrast to someone polite and well meaning trying to help...... We all die; it is just a matter of how and when “Braveheart” I have a good friend who’s young son was given a “participation trophy” for being on a loosing little league baseball team. He threw it in the trash! Said he didn’t want a trophy his team did not earn… My hats off to this young man! In today’s “PC stroke em on the hand and tell em it’s ok” society we exist in, I often times come across as a hash asshole, but I do not care. If my methods don’t communicate well, then there is always someone who will read the post later that will get the gist of it, and there is always some “libbo-dogooder” that will stroke the hand in a “gentler and kinder” way to save the day and express the intended communication to those who need to be treated as if the world is actually a nice and forgiving place. So it takes all kinds, assholes like me and the alter ego’s out there who better understand the intricate workings of the human mind better than I. We all serve the greater purpose... Bottom line – life is all that’s important. How we keep each other alive are just the details of the desired end result of not having to deal with a bloodied corpse lying out in the landing area. Quote That way they won't risk being made to feel stupid. How can someone be “made to feel” any emotion? Aren’t individuals the ones who decide how they will react to any given situations? Any comment that contains the phrase “your making me feel” followed by an emotion is cop out psychobabblebullshit because people do not want to take responsibility for their own feelings. In skydiving, I was taught to, and have spent years looking for problems with other peoples gear and will continue to point out whenever I think I see a problem – and anytime I am mistaken, if someone wants to have a shitty attitude about it, I don’t care, at least I will be able to sleep at night knowing someone did not fall out of their rig over a matter of pride (and that is all it is, pride)… -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyninja 0 #29 April 25, 2007 I never said I wasn't pleasant about correcting his error. Flame elsewhere.Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 April 25, 2007 Quote... In today’s “PC stroke em on the hand and tell em it’s ok” society we exist in, I often times come across as a hash asshole, but I do not care. If my methods don’t communicate well, then there is always someone who will read the post later that will get the gist of it, and there is always some “libbo-dogooder” that will stroke the hand in a “gentler and kinder” way to save the day and express the intended communication to those who need to be treated as if the world is actually a nice and forgiving place. So it takes all kinds, assholes like me and the alter ego’s out there who better understand the intricate workings of the human mind better than I. We all serve the greater purpose... Bottom line – life is all that’s important. How we keep each other alive are just the details of the desired end result of not having to deal with a bloodied corpse lying out in the landing area. Mykel, I think I understand where you are coming from (the end justifies the means). But I also believe that certain means get better results at the end. Some of us take harsh criticism well while most people do not and I think that the softer touch gets through to more people if for no other reason than you can circumvent the "defensive closed ears" that a harsh approach can set off. When you say, "If my methods don’t communicate well, then there is always someone who will read the post later that will get the gist of it..." I get the idea that the original target of your instruction has missed your point and didn't "get it" and is still out there lost in the shuffle. All I'm saying is that with your knowledge and expertise, a lot more people would "get it" if you didn't put them on the defensive and have them close their ears to the message because they are turned off by the tone.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyninja 0 #31 April 25, 2007 Right you are, Pops. I don't think I made it through the first 3 lines of that post when my personal intolerance for that particular tone of voice kicked in, so I apologize to you AFFI if I am later redundant after not reading all of what you so eloquently had to say. Further clarification of the forehead-penis isssue that so many of you object to: ------- "Should" is a word that I do not respond well to. Also, the assuption of a pedestal in place entices me to respond from one. However: As I note later in the thread, I was not in fact being bitchy to him, he probably didn't even know the penis was there on his forehead (I am not a reflexively mean person, so the look was one of curiosity - wow, is that really a penis growing out of your forehead?. It probably didn't help his case that I was rechecking the routing, KNEW it was right, and the fella kept insisting it was wrong, fron his vantage point of across the plane and 3 seats down no less, until I showed him up close.) I don't believe the words "thank you" specifically came out of my mouth, but neither did I respond with a "fuck you buddy, who do you think you are??" because I know he was trying to help. Somebody else may indeed save my life by spotting this or the like (I love the assumption that I need to be rescued - very ivory tower-esque. That must be why WildBill keeps gear checking me.. ), but that was not the case in this particular instance. Quote Your response should have been “thank you”. All the guy was doing was trying to help. Come down off the pedestal, it might save your life sometime. Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #32 April 25, 2007 My management motto, "Praise in public, criticize in private" Everyone that I have spoken to quietly about a gear issue has been very receptive. When I lean over and tell someone privately that their chest strap is misrouted, they have always quietly thanked me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #33 April 26, 2007 QuoteIf you are going to correct somebody, make sure you're right first is all I'm saying. No, this mode of operating will assist in someone's death at some point. Make sure you are not bringing it up like you a know-it-all asshat is more the lesson...if someone brings up my gear as a problem and it turns out to be shear ignorance, I still thank them and consider it an opportunity to teach them something new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #34 April 26, 2007 Quote I've had people catch some stuff on mine once or twice. Checks of 3 would have caught it before exit, but still . . . You must have a funky way of doing your chest strap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 186 #35 April 26, 2007 QuoteWas on a lift in Perris last week (team training), while on the climb to altitude I did my normal check over my gear (chest and leg straps, handles and both 3 rings), had a glace at my team mates kit as normal and all was in order. Also had a quick look at the others around me and noticed the the chest strap of the guy sitting opposite me was miss-routed (noted threaded correctly and only held in by the elastic). I pointed it out to him and he just looked at me blankly, so I routed it correctly for him and reported him to the STO (or whatever it's called in the US) and manifest on landing. The guy concerned was called to Square 1 for a gear check lesson. It appeared that the guy didn't have much of a clue about doing gear checks and the guy he was jumping wish looked totally unaware of the concept. My message here is, if you don't know how to check your gear find out how and do it (it only takes a few seconds). Nick On any load that we're aboard, Orly King, Scotty Carbone or I will call for a gear check at about 10,000 feet. Each of us has a different briefing announcement, but the end result is the same. Most people do one of their own volition, but enough people have found misrouted chest straps, folded-under cutaway handles or inaccessible hackeys when so reminded that I think it a sound policy. A couple of times someone has found a misrouted chest strap after rolling their eyes and "humoring" me by checking, so I don't mind it so much when people think it uncool. If you're going to come to grief because of something that could easily have been caught before exit, it won't be on my watch. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #36 April 30, 2007 QuoteOn any load that we're aboard, Orly King, Scotty Carbone or I will call for a gear check at about 10,000 feet. Each of us has a different briefing announcement, but the end result is the same. Good old Scotty, one thing I definitely picked up from him (along with a quite few other things) was the old "Check Your Handles" shout out at 10K. But like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" - I even do it if violates someone’s own “personal intolerance”, but I am not out to win popularity awards, just out to keep fellow skydivers alive… It is funny, a lot of the time right after I do it someone else will holler it out but doing their best Scotty Impression (raspy voice) - looks like the old guy leaves impressions everywhere he goes eh? Perhaps I should change it to "Check Your Handles and Cheststraps"? Suggestions? -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #37 April 30, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" That is a really good idea. After having some one admit to me that they jumped with their chest strap not threaded right on a two way me I felt pretty guilty. I felt guilty partly because I allways try to eye down every ones stuff but I tended to do it silently, second it was in a 206 so it wasn't like I missed it on a CASA full of jumpers. I think yelling it out would help every one else, and myself too!!!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyninja 0 #38 April 30, 2007 "Check your harness, check your handles!" ?Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #39 April 30, 2007 QuoteBut like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" That is a really good idea. After having some one admit to me that they jumped with their chest strap not threaded right on a two way me I felt pretty guilty. I felt guilty partly because I allways try to eye down every ones stuff but I tended to do it silently, second it was in a 206 so it wasn't like I missed it on a CASA full of jumpers. Glad you had that experience, imagine you would have felt MUCH worse if your buddy fell out of their harness??? Review this” http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2767886#2767886 Irregardless or aircraft type, if you are doing a jump with someone, check all their gear pre board, it only takes a second and apart from a pin check, it can be done very indiscriminately, do it even if it gets their panties in a wad – I would not jump with someone who is too full of self righteous indignation to get gear checks that way I will not grieve as much when they fuck up, -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyninja 0 #40 April 30, 2007 (Haha, that is, if there are the panties to be gotten in a wad.) I don't support the "secret" checking of the gear that includes checking under flaps/moving things around (eyeballing the 3-ring and harness is one thing, touching is another). Personally, I don't like just anybody to be taking liberties (touching without asking) with the gear that I've already carefully packed, checked over, donned correctly, and rechecked. That is up there with tampering in my book, especially if there is a need to be sneaky about it. If you don't want a gear check, you take your chances. If you DO want a gear check, you ask somebody that you trust to not fuck up your gear if its already right. It is different, I agree, if you are jumping with other people because there is more likely to be dangerous if something is amiss. It remains your perogative who you choose to jump with, whether it be for their safety or your own, and under what conditions. I personally am careful who checks my gear to avoid getting the dirty-old-man cooties on my rig. Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RB_Hammer 0 #41 April 30, 2007 [replyI personally am careful who checks my gear to avoid getting the dirty-old-man cooties on my rig. I now know why my head felt so weird when I asked you if I could do a gear check on you to check off on my 'A' card.I noticed how you went right away to 'teacher' mode, asking me what I was looking at/for and making sure I was doing it by threes. Thanks. I appoligize for the cooties I left, but am sure they fell off during you jump."I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late." Mathew Quigley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #42 April 30, 2007 Quote ... you ask somebody that you trust to not fuck up your gear if its already right. Are you kidding me? If some one can't handle opening my main and reserve flap and giving it a look over I won't even get on the plane with them."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #43 April 30, 2007 >If some one can't handle opening my main and reserve flap and giving it >a look over I won't even get on the plane with them. I jump with people I don't know all the time. Often if I don't know them I don't trust them enough to check my gear. Doesn't mean they're bad skydivers, just means I don't know them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #44 April 30, 2007 Could you explain to me what you are concerned with them doing wrong?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 April 30, 2007 > Could you explain to me what you are concerned with them doing wrong? Well, I've had jumpers try to "pry open" my RPC cover to check the reserve pin on my Reflex. Fortunately that didn't do any damage. I've seen the following done to other people: -their main pins inserted all the way to the loop -their bridle routings changed; in one case the bridle was stuffed a good 6" under the right flap -their hackeys either inserted farther into their pouches or pulled farther out -their reserve flaps opened, then reclosed incorrectly -their reserve pins rotated 30 degrees in either direction for some reason -their main pin popped by a jumper who grabbed both the flap and the bridle and yanked to open the flap -their cypres button pushed "to make sure it was on" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #46 April 30, 2007 I guess I haven't been around long enough to see stuff like that. Thank you for clarifying for me."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #47 April 30, 2007 QuoteI don't support the "secret" checking of the gear that includes checking under flaps/moving things around (eyeballing the 3-ring and harness is one thing, touching is another). Exactly - 1 - eyeball all you want. I even appreciate it. 2 - If you want to touch my stuff - ASK FIRST. I don't mind and will thank that person even if I say no thanks 3 - Of course, if I ask, please do. And if I'm doing my own check (by feel) same rules. Eyeball all you want and let me know if you see something, but hands off. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grimmie 173 #48 May 1, 2007 A valuable lesson learned years ago... Turkey Twenty Ways, Thanksgiving weekend. Our team was very experienced except for myself and one other jumper. We both had about 500 jumps. During a training jump we were waiting forever for the next point key, when all of a sudden a team member went flying by on his back, trying to route his chest strap, which had come completely undone. He managed to pull and land without incident, never managing to get it routed. Our entire team of experienced jumpers never noticed it... ...the next weekend I was jumping and started to look at everyone's gear. A jumper from Europe was loading the plane with a flipped in cutaway pillow. I mentioned it to him and he was very thankful...he had a reserve ride on that jump. I didn't buy a beer all night! I have seen people get on the plane with no container, instead focusing on his skyboard, and all sorts of other possible dilemmas. If you see something that doesn't look right, mention it to the jumper...it may save their life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #49 May 1, 2007 Careful now, you don't want to "tamper" - it' s each person for themselves... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladydyver 0 #50 May 1, 2007 QuoteMy management motto, "Praise in public, criticize in private" Everyone that I have spoken to quietly about a gear issue has been very receptive. When I lean over and tell someone privately that their chest strap is misrouted, they have always quietly thanked me. I think this keeps the situation from becoming a defensive one. I always appreciate anything jumpers have to teach me - I need it! It is nice to point out the positives as well.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! 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winsor 186 #35 April 26, 2007 QuoteWas on a lift in Perris last week (team training), while on the climb to altitude I did my normal check over my gear (chest and leg straps, handles and both 3 rings), had a glace at my team mates kit as normal and all was in order. Also had a quick look at the others around me and noticed the the chest strap of the guy sitting opposite me was miss-routed (noted threaded correctly and only held in by the elastic). I pointed it out to him and he just looked at me blankly, so I routed it correctly for him and reported him to the STO (or whatever it's called in the US) and manifest on landing. The guy concerned was called to Square 1 for a gear check lesson. It appeared that the guy didn't have much of a clue about doing gear checks and the guy he was jumping wish looked totally unaware of the concept. My message here is, if you don't know how to check your gear find out how and do it (it only takes a few seconds). Nick On any load that we're aboard, Orly King, Scotty Carbone or I will call for a gear check at about 10,000 feet. Each of us has a different briefing announcement, but the end result is the same. Most people do one of their own volition, but enough people have found misrouted chest straps, folded-under cutaway handles or inaccessible hackeys when so reminded that I think it a sound policy. A couple of times someone has found a misrouted chest strap after rolling their eyes and "humoring" me by checking, so I don't mind it so much when people think it uncool. If you're going to come to grief because of something that could easily have been caught before exit, it won't be on my watch. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #36 April 30, 2007 QuoteOn any load that we're aboard, Orly King, Scotty Carbone or I will call for a gear check at about 10,000 feet. Each of us has a different briefing announcement, but the end result is the same. Good old Scotty, one thing I definitely picked up from him (along with a quite few other things) was the old "Check Your Handles" shout out at 10K. But like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" - I even do it if violates someone’s own “personal intolerance”, but I am not out to win popularity awards, just out to keep fellow skydivers alive… It is funny, a lot of the time right after I do it someone else will holler it out but doing their best Scotty Impression (raspy voice) - looks like the old guy leaves impressions everywhere he goes eh? Perhaps I should change it to "Check Your Handles and Cheststraps"? Suggestions? -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #37 April 30, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" That is a really good idea. After having some one admit to me that they jumped with their chest strap not threaded right on a two way me I felt pretty guilty. I felt guilty partly because I allways try to eye down every ones stuff but I tended to do it silently, second it was in a 206 so it wasn't like I missed it on a CASA full of jumpers. I think yelling it out would help every one else, and myself too!!!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyninja 0 #38 April 30, 2007 "Check your harness, check your handles!" ?Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #39 April 30, 2007 QuoteBut like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" That is a really good idea. After having some one admit to me that they jumped with their chest strap not threaded right on a two way me I felt pretty guilty. I felt guilty partly because I allways try to eye down every ones stuff but I tended to do it silently, second it was in a 206 so it wasn't like I missed it on a CASA full of jumpers. Glad you had that experience, imagine you would have felt MUCH worse if your buddy fell out of their harness??? Review this” http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2767886#2767886 Irregardless or aircraft type, if you are doing a jump with someone, check all their gear pre board, it only takes a second and apart from a pin check, it can be done very indiscriminately, do it even if it gets their panties in a wad – I would not jump with someone who is too full of self righteous indignation to get gear checks that way I will not grieve as much when they fuck up, -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyninja 0 #38 April 30, 2007 "Check your harness, check your handles!" ?Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #39 April 30, 2007 QuoteBut like Scotty, I simply holler just that, "Everybody Check Your Handles" That is a really good idea. After having some one admit to me that they jumped with their chest strap not threaded right on a two way me I felt pretty guilty. I felt guilty partly because I allways try to eye down every ones stuff but I tended to do it silently, second it was in a 206 so it wasn't like I missed it on a CASA full of jumpers. Glad you had that experience, imagine you would have felt MUCH worse if your buddy fell out of their harness??? Review this” http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2767886#2767886 Irregardless or aircraft type, if you are doing a jump with someone, check all their gear pre board, it only takes a second and apart from a pin check, it can be done very indiscriminately, do it even if it gets their panties in a wad – I would not jump with someone who is too full of self righteous indignation to get gear checks that way I will not grieve as much when they fuck up, -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyninja 0 #40 April 30, 2007 (Haha, that is, if there are the panties to be gotten in a wad.) I don't support the "secret" checking of the gear that includes checking under flaps/moving things around (eyeballing the 3-ring and harness is one thing, touching is another). Personally, I don't like just anybody to be taking liberties (touching without asking) with the gear that I've already carefully packed, checked over, donned correctly, and rechecked. That is up there with tampering in my book, especially if there is a need to be sneaky about it. If you don't want a gear check, you take your chances. If you DO want a gear check, you ask somebody that you trust to not fuck up your gear if its already right. It is different, I agree, if you are jumping with other people because there is more likely to be dangerous if something is amiss. It remains your perogative who you choose to jump with, whether it be for their safety or your own, and under what conditions. I personally am careful who checks my gear to avoid getting the dirty-old-man cooties on my rig. Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RB_Hammer 0 #41 April 30, 2007 [replyI personally am careful who checks my gear to avoid getting the dirty-old-man cooties on my rig. I now know why my head felt so weird when I asked you if I could do a gear check on you to check off on my 'A' card.I noticed how you went right away to 'teacher' mode, asking me what I was looking at/for and making sure I was doing it by threes. Thanks. I appoligize for the cooties I left, but am sure they fell off during you jump."I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late." Mathew Quigley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #42 April 30, 2007 Quote ... you ask somebody that you trust to not fuck up your gear if its already right. Are you kidding me? If some one can't handle opening my main and reserve flap and giving it a look over I won't even get on the plane with them."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #43 April 30, 2007 >If some one can't handle opening my main and reserve flap and giving it >a look over I won't even get on the plane with them. I jump with people I don't know all the time. Often if I don't know them I don't trust them enough to check my gear. Doesn't mean they're bad skydivers, just means I don't know them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #44 April 30, 2007 Could you explain to me what you are concerned with them doing wrong?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #45 April 30, 2007 > Could you explain to me what you are concerned with them doing wrong? Well, I've had jumpers try to "pry open" my RPC cover to check the reserve pin on my Reflex. Fortunately that didn't do any damage. I've seen the following done to other people: -their main pins inserted all the way to the loop -their bridle routings changed; in one case the bridle was stuffed a good 6" under the right flap -their hackeys either inserted farther into their pouches or pulled farther out -their reserve flaps opened, then reclosed incorrectly -their reserve pins rotated 30 degrees in either direction for some reason -their main pin popped by a jumper who grabbed both the flap and the bridle and yanked to open the flap -their cypres button pushed "to make sure it was on" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #46 April 30, 2007 I guess I haven't been around long enough to see stuff like that. Thank you for clarifying for me."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 April 30, 2007 QuoteI don't support the "secret" checking of the gear that includes checking under flaps/moving things around (eyeballing the 3-ring and harness is one thing, touching is another). Exactly - 1 - eyeball all you want. I even appreciate it. 2 - If you want to touch my stuff - ASK FIRST. I don't mind and will thank that person even if I say no thanks 3 - Of course, if I ask, please do. And if I'm doing my own check (by feel) same rules. Eyeball all you want and let me know if you see something, but hands off. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #48 May 1, 2007 A valuable lesson learned years ago... Turkey Twenty Ways, Thanksgiving weekend. Our team was very experienced except for myself and one other jumper. We both had about 500 jumps. During a training jump we were waiting forever for the next point key, when all of a sudden a team member went flying by on his back, trying to route his chest strap, which had come completely undone. He managed to pull and land without incident, never managing to get it routed. Our entire team of experienced jumpers never noticed it... ...the next weekend I was jumping and started to look at everyone's gear. A jumper from Europe was loading the plane with a flipped in cutaway pillow. I mentioned it to him and he was very thankful...he had a reserve ride on that jump. I didn't buy a beer all night! I have seen people get on the plane with no container, instead focusing on his skyboard, and all sorts of other possible dilemmas. If you see something that doesn't look right, mention it to the jumper...it may save their life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #49 May 1, 2007 Careful now, you don't want to "tamper" - it' s each person for themselves... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #50 May 1, 2007 QuoteMy management motto, "Praise in public, criticize in private" Everyone that I have spoken to quietly about a gear issue has been very receptive. When I lean over and tell someone privately that their chest strap is misrouted, they have always quietly thanked me. I think this keeps the situation from becoming a defensive one. I always appreciate anything jumpers have to teach me - I need it! It is nice to point out the positives as well.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
