Keep your eyes open during gear checks!

[crapflinger2000 1]

And please thank the person who saved your bacon profusely. One time in the plane on jump run I noticed a guy who had his RSL attached not to the RSL "little ring" but to the "little ring" of the riser 3-ring system.

Never thanked me.

And in reality I am telling this story not because I felt slighted (I am sure it just slipped the person's mind to thank me and I've known the person for like 20 years so who gives a crap) but just to tell a story about how awesome I am at spotting random gear problems.

Yay for me!

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[irishrigger 31]

I remember when i did my AFF certification in Z-Hills 11 years ago, i was heading to the boarding area with my student. there was also another evaluator on the same dive with 2 candidates. everyone on that load except the 2 guys, realised that the evaluators 3 ring was not right. the evaluator made it quiet obvious that his RSL was attached to the D-Ring, i mean everyone saw it except these 2 guys. being a fellow candidate i made eye contact with one of the other guys discreetly and pointed at my 3-ring then nodded torwards the evaluator.
The other candidate gave me a wink and proceeded to do another gear check, he even touched the RSL, then his partner did the very same! the 2 of them did not cop it. of course once the evaluator went on the step to board, he called a time out and fixed it himself.

sometimes one cannot see the forrest because of the tree's.

so lets hope that in the future people are more vigilant about gear checks.

[RichM 0]

My bad. I was a BI instructing RAPS students at a well known UK DZ. Gear checks prior to emplaning are mandatory for all skydivers. Another skydiver gave me the once over and simply suggested I re-route my chest strap. I looked down and sure enough it wasn't done up properly. I think I am uber careful, I taught people, and yet I still made a mistake. Gear checks are mandatory in the UK prior to emplaning and we have to sign for those we have checked, 'tis a good thing I think :) Its not fool proof, but it takes next to no time and it helps.

Rich M

[riggerrob 558]

... like the time I yelled at a skydiver .. who was walking towards the plane ... "Where is your cutaway handle?"

... it was turned under the harness ...

[SEREJumper 1]

Here is another one...

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[Blis 1]

SEREJumper

Here is another one...

Holy shit :O

[obelixtim 100]

Quote

Here is another one...

Darwin and the Reaper.....rounding up the unthinking.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[irishrigger 31]

that is way worse then the pic i had. how the hell was that not spotted? how long was that closing loop?

[Hellis 0]

I packed a friends rig a few years ago and when I closed the rig the loop was about ~7 cm to long (~3 inches).
He found it easier to close with a long loop, he also said the loop doesn't need to be replaced as often becasuse of less wear, and the pullup cord gets less wear also.
So in his mind, it was all positive.

I refused to close the rig and just left it on the packingmat.

[davelepka 4]

I haven't read this entire thread, so maybe this has already come up, buuuuut........

One thing for every jumper to keep in mind is that unless you are 100% sure you are familiar with the rig in question, DO NOT put your hands on someone's gear, even if they ask for a gear check. Don't guess, or just assume it's 'the same' as some other rig, just politely decline and see if you can't help the jumper find someone who knows the rig.

You may very well end up giving the 'A-ok' to a rig that is not, or causing a problem trying to fix something that is correctly packed but not the way you are familiar with.

People are literally making a 'life and death' decision based on what you tell them when they ask for a gear check. They will literally jump out of a plane if you tell them their stuff is 100% ready to go, and potentially ride the plane down if you tell them otherwise. Don't take that lightly.

I was standing in line at Bridge Day a couple weeks ago with some newer jumpers from my DZ who were making their first BASE jump. I've known these guys since they made their first skydive, and they know me as the 'go to' guy with questions about anything on the DZ. So one of them starts to ask me about his bridle routing over his shoulder because he was going hand-held, and he was prepping his PC (we were almost up). He says to me 'Hey Lepka, can you check my....:, and before he could finish his sentence, I interrupted him and said, 'Nope. I don't know anything about going hand-held on a BASE jump, ask one of the gear-check guys at the bottom of the ramp'.

I've never gone hand-held, never been trained on it, never even considered it. Even though I'm sure I could have figured it out, and there are at least 3 highly-experienced BASE jumpers doing gear check up at the exit point who would have caught any problems, I wasn't about to 'guess', or get involved in the process in any way because it just wasn't my place.

[pchapman 261]

davelepka

I was standing in line at Bridge Day a couple weeks ago

Funny, I was doing the same, and saw this - see photo - on the guy ahead of me. Hardly a fatal error, but having a flipped through leg strap sure loads the harness webbing in a less than ideal way. Hard to spot with black harness on black clothing.

At least for him, it was probably better that I as some random jumper caught it, than for him to get to the front of the line and have the Staff gear check guys spot it.

[davelepka 4]

I also saw a good one in line at BD. A guys PC fell out of the BOC pouch and was laying on the ground. A dude behind him picked it up and handed it to him. During this process, another guy noticed that the bridle was routed around the lateral, and they had to thread the PC down through the lateral before putting it back in the pouch.

Guaranteed PC in tow. I think the guys at the exit point would have caught it, but WTF? How do you get in line and put on a rig in that condition?

To me, the gear checks they provide at the exit are just confirmation that I did my job the right way. Maybe some people see it differently, but I walk up there with a 100% expectation that my stuff will check out, and they will pass me along with no action required. Ditto for gear checks at the DZ.

[wasatchrider 0]

Sounds like a lot of people should not be in that line at bridge day or skydiving for that matter. I get the whole gear check for skydivers and people at bridge day but by the time you are making a BASE jump there is just no excuse not that you should not get checked but something like this should not happen. Myself I do not get a gear check weather I'm BASE jumping or getting on a plane I know my gear and rigging and put my life on it if I make a mistake I could die and take that responsibility in myself no one else. I don't like people messing with my gear it's right I know that others might slightly change that. Most will not agree with me on my philosophy for obvious reasons. I have not been to that many drop zones but my home drop zones I get on the plane every time without a gear check and never has someone ask me if I want a gear check or if I've had one.

BASE 1519

[Flounder 0]

When I jump at Spaceland, and Chuck is organizing, he reminds, well, maybe not reminds, more like instructs, everyone in the loading area to gear check each other. Whether we are in his group or not. Makes it easier to get gear checks since usually two or three people will just walk up and start checking for me. I do the same.

At other DZ's I've been to, it seems to be a personal choice kinda thing. I wish they would be mandatory everywhere. I'm new, and I get them at least once at the loading area, but the eye rolls you sometimes get when you ask for one from the awesome people really gets annoying sometimes.

And then there are the people who just give a cursory glance and say you're good. I've learned to say thanks and go ask someone else. At one DZ, a coach did just that to a student and another staff member was standing right there and called him out on it. "You ever do that again and you won't work here anymore." I'll always respect the staff member for calling him out.

Just a thought or two...

“Work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do.” -Steve Jobs

[JeffCa 0]

Can somebody please educate me about the problem with a closing loop being too long? I understand that if it's too tight, you can have a pilot chute in tow. And I understand that if it's too loose, you can have a premature deployment.

But what about a situation in which the loop is long so the grommets are far apart, but the rig is still tight and there is tension on the loop because of the size of the canopy inside? When I first got my new gear just a few jumps ago, I couldn't get all of the air out of the new canopy, so I ended up not being able to close the container at all. I literally drew a small amount of blood from my hands trying to close it. So I lengthened the loop. This allowed the grommets to spread apart, something like in SERE's photo, but not so extreme. But I could still barely close it.

I jumped it, and it opened just fine. Then when I was repacking, a couple of instructors came by, saw it and laughed at me. They shortened the loop, but I couldn't close it by myself that way, and they had to help me for the next few times before I figured it out. Now I'm better at getting the air out, and it's becoming much easier to close, with the grommets together.

So anyway, what exactly is the problem with a long loop that still has tension? Please explain.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[RichM 0]

The problem you describe with not being able to get the air out is a genuine issue. You pack the rig with a long closing loop that is nice and tight, but the rig doesnt get jumped for 2 weeks. In those 2 weeks the pressure on the canopy forces the air out. The next time the rig gets jumped the closing loop is now loose and there is a risk of premature. If that premature happens in the aircraft with the door open there is a chance the resulting mess will pull the plane out of the air and kill everyone. Thats a worst case scenario but it is a real risk. I hope that helps

Rich M

[unkulunkulu 0]

Some information here: http://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/ask_a_rigger/closing-loop-length

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

...usually two or three people will just walk up and start checking for me. I do the same.

Careful with this! See post # 35 in this thread. If I don't have even the vagueast clue as to who you are, and you all of a sudden come up and start pawing all over my gear out-of-the-blue, you may not get the reaction you were necessarily expectiing.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[snowcrash75 0]

wasatchrider

Myself I do not get a gear check weather I'm BASE jumping or getting on a plane I know my gear and rigging and put my life on it if I make a mistake I could die and take that responsibility in myself no one else. I don't like people messing with my gear it's right I know that others might slightly change that.

davelepka

One thing for every jumper to keep in mind is that unless you are 100% sure you are familiar with the rig in question, DO NOT put your hands on someone's gear, even if they ask for a gear check.

To expand on Dave's totally dead-on opinion, I try never to go straight to touching another jumper's gear, ESPECIALLY if I'm not asked for a gear check. But I'm ALWAYS giving the crew around me optical gear checks. Wasatchrider may not want one, but he's getting a full blown eyeballing from me. But I no touchy touch in less it's an emergency that's threatening ALL of us. By which I mean looking down in front of me on the floor of the Otter and there's your pilot chute. I get handsy pretty fast, and if you don't like it, tough #$%*. I'm not saying that was wasatchrider, but that was me and another jumper, and that's the real point: Always be checking your fellow jumpers' gear. Even if they don't ask for it, keep your eyes open. You are protecting all of us, not just them.

So much has to do with how we talk to each other. If I spot something on the mat, or in the loading area, and if I'm not good friends with the jumper, I like to start with direct eye contact and a friendly "Hey, can I ask you about your rig?". I've never been told to beat it before being given the opportunity to point (not touch) to whatever is in question and ask the jumper WHY they have chosen to do that (and not in a dick way, in a not condescending "please explain so I can understand the thought process" way). I can't think of a single time it hasn't started a nice civil discussion about hows and whys. It's all about keeping each others' backs, literally, in this case.

I check my gear thoroughly before I put it on, I check it in the loading area, on the way to the plane, and again when the load adjusts to prepare for jump run, and at ANY time if I feel that I've bumped/rubbed/shifted in a way that might have compromised something behind me that I can't see directly. I rarely ask for a gear check, but I can't recall the last time I turned one down when it was offered.

wasatchriders "I may burn in alone, but it will be my fault" attitude doesn't necessarily apply to all the jumpers whose containers' photographs have made it to this thread. My own personal rigging is very good, but it is not infallible. I appreciate the fact that all of you are out there watching out for me.

[snowcrash75 0]

Scrumpot

Quote

...usually two or three people will just walk up and start checking for me. I do the same.

Careful with this! See post # 35 in this thread. If I don't have even the vagueast clue as to who you are, and you all of a sudden come up and start pawing all over my gear out-of-the-blue, you may not get the reaction you were necessarily expectiing.

FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH!!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

snowcrash75

***

Quote

...usually two or three people will just walk up and start checking for me. I do the same.

Careful with this! See post # 35 in this thread. If I don't have even the vagueast clue as to who you are, and you all of a sudden come up and start pawing all over my gear out-of-the-blue, you may not get the reaction you were necessarily expectiing.

FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH!!

No, more like:

"I appreciate your concern and I understand why you did that. But please refrain from actually grabbing my gear. If you see something out of line, please say something. But don't just go grabbing my stuff."

I had someone give my chest strap a tug just before exit. He was "just checking." And I appreciate his concern and willingness to double check me. Just not how he did it. And what I wrote above is what I said to him after the jump was over and we were back on the ground.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[snowcrash75 0]

wolfriverjoe

******

Quote

...usually two or three people will just walk up and start checking for me. I do the same.

Careful with this! See post # 35 in this thread. If I don't have even the vagueast clue as to who you are, and you all of a sudden come up and start pawing all over my gear out-of-the-blue, you may not get the reaction you were necessarily expectiing.

FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH!!

No, more like:

"I appreciate your concern and I understand why you did that. But please refrain from actually grabbing my gear. If you see something out of line, please say something. But don't just go grabbing my stuff."

I had someone give my chest strap a tug just before exit. He was "just checking." And I appreciate his concern and willingness to double check me. Just not how he did it. And what I wrote above is what I said to him after the jump was over and we were back on the ground.

That was ha ha joking funny business. This was the quote you were looking for:

snowcrash75

To expand on Dave's totally dead-on opinion, I try never to go straight to touching another jumper's gear, ESPECIALLY if I'm not asked for a gear check. But I'm ALWAYS giving the crew around me optical gear checks. ...I no touchy touch in less it's an emergency that's threatening ALL of us.

[chuckakers 370]

davelepka

You may very well end up giving the 'A-ok' to a rig that is not, or causing a problem trying to fix something that is correctly packed but not the way you are familiar with.

Which is why every skydiver should have a true working knowledge ALL types of typical modern gear.

"In the day" we trained to perform ALL necessary processes to make a jump so if we were ever put in a situation in which outside assistance wasn't available we would be competent from gear check to repacking.

Where I learned to jump (Parachutes & Associates, Frankfurt, Indiana, circa 1985) no one got signed off for their A license without demonstrating complete knowledge of every common system of the day. That seems to have gone by the wayside - but it shouldn't have.

Collectively we should be comfortable allowing any current, licensed skydiver to check our gear for us. Unfortunately that is not the case.

For a real treat, see how many jumpers - especially newer ones - out of ten can actually talk you through the complete operation of their own rig.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[JeffCa 0]

chuckakers

For a real treat, see how many jumpers - especially newer ones - out of ten can actually talk you through the complete operation of their own rig.

I agree. At my DZ, I'm apparently the go-to guy for information about gear. Look at my jump numbers on the left. I'm new. I've done my best to absorb information from the best sources. I researched all major gear manufacturers when I was shopping, been reading this forum daily for a year, listened to all of the Brian Germain Safety First episodes from Skydive Radio, watched DSE's videos of the manufacturers explaining their products from the last 3 PIA conventions, read the Jump Shack website articles, the Skydiver's Handbook, The Parachute and Its Pilot the Skydiver's Survival Guide, manuals for some gear that I don't even own, etc.

That doesn't make me an expert at all, but it seems to have put me way ahead of most of the fun jumpers at my DZ, even ones with hundreds more jumps than I have. It's me explaining to the 265-pound C-licence guy why he should consider large rings instead of mini-rings for his new container (He thought the difference was cosmetic). It's me explaining what a Skyhook does. It's me telling the D-licence guy that those yellow cables need to be lubed and risers need to be flexed (He confessed that he'd never heard that before, RTFM!). It's me pointing out that helmets should be done up for takeoff. It's me explaining why it can be a bad idea to have a pillow reserve handle when you've never cutaway before. And so on.

Last week, a couple of the much more experienced guys said that they now come to me when they have a question about gear. What does that tell you?

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[potatoman 0]

Yes. Met someone this weekend, 350 jumps, can't pack for themselves yet. Obviously no working knowledge of own gear, nevermind others.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.