Do you believe in God? Higher power?

[billvon 2,436]

I used to be catholic; I still am in that I go to church and live my life the way catholicism teaches, but I don't subscribe to the modern view that god is sitting up there (with Jesus, in his original human body, hovering nearby) judging us. That, to me, is a very narrow view of god, a very anthropomorphic one at best.

The problem I have is that everything has to make sense to me as far as it goes. I cannot compartmentalize things like some people can. I know some people who honestly, fervently believe there is a physical heaven and hell. But if one of those people was a pilot, he would not file a flight plan keeping heaven-avoidance in mind; if he drilled oil wells, he would not choose his drilling sites to avoid puncturing hell (which, one imagines, would be sorta nasty.) I suspect this isn't because that pilot knows heaven is above flight level 180, but because he instinctively knows that he's just plain not going to run into it no matter what aircraft, or spacecraft, he flies. There almost seems to be a real world and a religious world, where real-world rules are suspended and "you just gotta believe."

Now, of course, that belief has been eroded over time, and will continue to be eroded. We know the world's not flat, and we know the sun came first. We know many of the parables in the bible (Adam and Eve, Noah, Babel) are more parables than valid histories. Evolution is pretty much an accepted field, with literally a dozen scientific disciplines all supporting the common conclusion that we weren't created in one fell swoop, we evolved in a linear progression from single celled organisms. To continue to believe in creationism after the evidence is in is to believe in a "trickster" of a god, one who would enjoy misleading us by planting fossils, messing around with argon levels and carbon-14 levels in plants and animals just to throw us off the track. I think that's a bit much for even the most devout christian to swallow. Instead, there's that willing suspension of disbelief again, that ability to believe in two different (but loosely related) worlds.

I don't have that ability. I can't pretend that both creationism and evolution are valid somehow, that maybe there really is an esoteric interpretation of genesis that lets us bend reality enough to fit it in those pages. But that hasn't deflected me from believing in god. Heck, I think the idea that god was intertwined with the creation of the original singularity pays him a lot more homage than imagining him as a sometimes-merciful sometimes-vengeful god that just created this little piece of the universe; I am far more grateful for Planck's constant being what it is than the Bible being what it is.

I'm not going to try to put my vision what what god really is here; it would make this post way too long. If anyone out there studies religions, it is closer to a buddhist's view of god than anything else. But I do think that religions created by humans are just that - human creations; and that they are successful religions if they promulgate love and peace and let people hold beliefs that bring them peace. To me, that seems to be the important bottom line. You don't need to prove that any one religion is the right one as long as it brings you peace, and you can live your life within its framework. That is far more important than the details, what symbols you use or what holy days you have.

[brits17 0]

absolutely! how someone can skydive and experience the beauty of it all... i don't understand. all i could think about on my 1st canopy ride down to the ground a couple years ago was "my God, your creation is awesome!"
so yeah, God's coolio foolio with me :) hehe! c ya!

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[quade 3]

Yeah, I think we're both on the same page.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Snowflake 0]

no not really.....I don't disbelieve either, but don't expect me to have "faith" in something that has no evidence.

In my opinion organized religion breeds everything that it says is wrong, but as long as you don't need to judge, kill or be mean spirited you can believe in the tooth fairy and you won't get any argument from me

PS everything that groks is God

[freebird 0]

That is an intresting and Im a college student andI have taken many science classes that prove that evolution did ocur..........I believe that when the big bang took place was all true the planets formed from gravity and our little plant was so lucky to be just the right distance from he sun so life could form. I do believe in evolution but I still believe that 2000 years ago something happened that people had trouble understanding..I think most people believe in some sort of God......we all have different customs but the same concept persist.it is like we all have a piece of a puzzle they are different ideas that when someday finally put togather will complete the puzzle............I can not really get in to more detail now Im at work this morning..This is just the gist of my opinion.....PEACE
freebird

[AggieDave 6]

(Ok, I'll do a serious post on the thread now
I consider myself a Christian, but I don't go to church anymore. Through many hours of study I came to some of my own conclusions about Christianity, some of which differ from popular belief. Its not so much that I disagree with churches, I don't, I generally disagree with the kind of people I meet there. The uber-Christian that will preach at you for trivial things in your life whilest their life is totally fucked, that is something I can't understand or appreciate, I would rather be at the DZ Sunday morning for first load then deal with those kinds of people.

Do I believe in God, the Bible, etc? Yes, but probably a bit differently then you think I do and I don't have the time right at this moment to go into that much detail (it would take quite a long time), since I'm walking out the door to get on first load...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Iflyme 0]

I believe that each of us is entitled to our own beliefs... but when any religous perspective is imposed on others, that is wrong.

[freeflir29 0]

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it is much to my chagrin, that this is your reply

I was just being funny. Really didn't mean anything by it.

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did you serve "your country" and your country alone? or were you serving "god and country?"

Ahhh....now that is an interesting question. I went through several phases of thought and philosophy over my 10 years of military service. For about the first 5 I was the youg, idealistic (naive really) kid that thought all we did as Americans was right. That good people had good things happen to them and that good guys were good guys and bad guys were those other people. Somewhere along the way I guess I grew up. I saw too many instances of people flushing someone else to save their own ass. Both in personal relationships and also the military as an institution. Then some really screwed up things happened to me. What did the military do? Instead of standing up for what was right "They" saw me as trouble and expendable. Now, I had no problem with the fact that, in combat, people are expendable. Certainly you don't try and get people killed but it IS going to happen. Just a fact of life. The problem I ran into was that the military ALWAYS sees you as expendable. No matter what the situation. This was counter to everything I had been taught. I grew up sticking up for my friends. It seems the military likes you as long as you don't make any noise or rock the boat. When you need "them" the most they don't extend a hand to pull you into the life boat. They start whacking you in the head with a paddle. Thanks guys!!!
I'm not sure when but I eventually came to adopt the "Warrior Code" Basically, it's just the idea that you are paid to do a job. Not think about the why's. Diplomats and politicians do that. You are paid to kill people and do it well. It just makes things a lot easier if you break it down to that simple of an idea. This mindset also allows you to take care of yourself and your friends. Screw the flag waving and all that other patriotic crap and concentrate on reality.

[jtval 0]

That is an intresting and Im a college student ...I believe that 2000 years ago something happened that people had trouble understanding..I think most people believe in some sort of God......we all have different customs but the same concept persist.i to paraphrase ya.

hey maybe what happen 200 yrs ago was skydiving.
"and he decended from the sky"
or maybe it was aliens...or maybe it was LSD! do you think leprosy was actually radiation piosoning? hmm sounds a lot like it....


I am in the same(jumpship) boat as aggie.
clay, someday Ill pm you about the mil thing. I agree with you 100% but If I pm'd you right now it would be way to long!
all I will say is Stupidity is exponential

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[Muenkel 0]

I am going to respond to Freebird's question the way a true Catholic does at mass:

"I believe in God, the Father almighty. Creator of Heaven and Earth. And in Jesus Christ the only son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell and on the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father from hence He shall judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Roman Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting."

For a Roman Catholic, it is very important when asked this question, to answer it truthfully. If you don't, it is considered a serious offense against God.

Now I ask another question, does anyone believe in private revelation? Do you think perhaps there are people out there who God Himself has actually revealed Himself to? Actually spoken to, or appeared to?

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Chris

[jtval 0]

muenkel..(this is a bit of levity here, you are form NY so you should be able to READ sarcasm)

so do you think yoda could kick jesus ass?

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Do you think perhaps there are people out there who God Himself has actually revealed Himself to? Actually spoken to, or appeared to?

I wont even act as though I could answer that without being a wise ass. I believe that there are a lot of ppl who "believe" god has spoken to them directly. but alot of those ppl are in padded rooms!
but I would be a fool if I said I believe in ghosts and then said that I think GOD had never spoken to anyone, in one way or another!
I'm sure somewhere some how he/she has!

but then again I also believ that there are aliens out there.(I hope so...b/c if we all the MOST intelligent species in the universe I think god is a fool to waste all that space!)

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[Muenkel 0]

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but then again I also believ that there are aliens out there.(I hope so...b/c if we all the MOST intelligent species in the universe I think god is a fool to waste all that space!)

I have to agree with this one. One only has to read all of Clay's posts and think...geez...there has gotta be a more intelligent species out there.

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Chris

[jtval 0]

yea pretty much forces an almight being to creat a whole new species...using clay as the "wow did I fuk that one up example!

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[crazymel 0]

Yes, I believe in God. Without a doubt.

Life is for the LIVING!!!!!

[billvon 2,436]

>Now I ask another question, does anyone believe in private
> revelation? Do you think perhaps there are people out there who
> God Himself has actually revealed Himself to? Actually spoken to, or
> appeared to?

I believe that people can have a relevation that changes their lives for the better, and that they can ascribe that to god. Note that, according to our current definition of mental illness, anyone who sees god or hears him talk is generally considered insane. (To be politically correct, they have a mental disorder known as schizophrenia.)

[freeflir29 0]

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they have a mental disorder known as schizophrenia.

Yep...like Chromeboy and NWS01.......

[nws01 0]

It is called Multiple Personality Disorder, Clay!

[Muenkel 0]

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I believe that people can have a relevation that changes their lives for the better, and that they can ascribe that to god. Note that, according to our current definition of mental illness, anyone who sees god or hears him talk is generally considered insane. (To be politically correct, they have a mental disorder known as schizophrenia.)

But if God does exist, wouldn't it be safe to assume He can appear and speak to anyone He wishes to? Don't you think He would not care whether or not us mortals label it insane?

The only reason I have asked this question is because I do believe in God and I have always been fascinated by this topic.

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Chris

[coconutmonkey 0]

Yeah, there be something up there.... and from the looks of all of us, He's got one helluva sense of humor! I won't clutter the lines here with abstract philosophy, but ya just gotta look around from time to time (particularly in this sport) and think:
"We should be f*&#ing dead man."
"Yeah, we was lucky."
"Naw, naw, naw, this wasn't luck man, this was divine intervention."
Jules & Vince

Hearts & Minds
2 to the Heart-
1 to the Mind-
Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range

[billvon 2,436]

>But if God does exist, wouldn't it be safe to assume He can appear
> and speak to anyone He wishes to? Don't you think He would not
> care whether or not us mortals label it insane?

Depends greatly on your definition of god. If it is the standard Judeo-Christian concept of a being who looks human and thinks like us, but is omniscient and omnipotent, then sure, why not? The person he appeared to would still be considered insane, but hey, that's life. It goes back to the whole dual-reality thing - I have no doubt that there are plenty of psychiatrists out there who fervently believe in god, but if a patient of theirs came in with a story about how Jesus appeared to them once a week and told them to give all their worldly goods away, he would treat him for his illness rather than call a priest to spread the word.

[Muenkel 0]

Bill, you do make a very good point. I remember seeing the film about "Our Lady of Fatima". In that film the townspeople thought the children (seers sp?) were insane and had them checked out by Doctors. Even the local priest was extremely skeptical as to what they claimed they had saw.

I gotta run now. Thanks for the interesting conversation. It was a nice break from my marketing plan!

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Chris

[Darkzone 0]

Let's all take a step back from this deep philosophical thinking and look at things from a more simplistic stance. That way I think we might make a better, more rational judgment.

Let's suppose that heaven (and hell) really exist. If, as we are led to believe from those that have allegedly been brought back from the dead, that at the end of the tunnel, our deceased friends and loved ones are there waiting for us, we must assume that they appear as they did before they passed on. So, just suppose that the victim of a terrible accident, say, being run over by a road roller appears at the Pearly Gates, would he be paper thin (Just like in a Tom & Jerry cartoon) and be able to slip under the gates unnoticed.

Also, just for arguments sake, the same guy was pissed when he stepped into the path of said road roller, would he reach heaven still pissed, unable to stand, urinating up the gate posts and addressing St Peter as 'My bestest pal' for all eternity?

On the other hand, if only our souls go upstairs then how do we know that those that greet us are who they say they are and not just clever ventriloquists like the guy that lives two doors from me and speaks to me through my kettle?

Or maybe Heaven is really like Oz and God is that guy behind the curtain and we're supposed to take no notice of him and only discover him if our dog dies with us and pulls the curtain aside...There's another thing, do animals go to the same heaven as us and if so can you buy cat litter up there...or Whiskers...or Bonios even?

And what side of the road do we drive on?

Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere.

[freeflir29 0]

Darkzone, have you been reading a lot of "Jack Handy" novels lately?

[freebird 0]

Everyntime I see my little girls face "he" appears.
Everytime I see the sun rise"he" appears
Everytime I land my canopy safely"he" appears.......The first time I heard my daughters cry "he" appeared

[nicknitro71 0]

No, I'm atheist.

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