freeflir29 0 #51 July 22, 2002 QuoteWhat the hell is an "adminidities"?? I think that is an ancient sand scrit word for "Girl with Big Hooters" every DZ has them....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #52 July 22, 2002 QuoteI think that is an ancient sand scrit word for "Girl with Big Hooters" every DZ has them....... And then there's the dz that has a man with big hooters.... Damn, is it pick on Clay day again?! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #53 July 22, 2002 QuoteToo hot for me...I just have one question. What the hell is an "adminidities"?? Jesus.... you'd think having a grammar nazi for a girlfriend - he'd learn to spell. kallend - I guess I'm going to just have to agree to disagree with you on the format of the article. Yes, some people might come to the conclusion that all the events listed happened at SDC, but some will remember the line right before talking about all the area DZs. I will agree the ATC guy was a little carried away in saying SDC was in "the absolute worst place to be" - it's not the best either... but none of that is really relevent - SDC is where it is, it has as much right to be there (and to the sky) as the airliners.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #54 July 22, 2002 >I just have one question. What the hell is an "adminidities"?? Grrrr.... ok... I'm all alone at work... Boss is gone.. coworker might as well have turned in his notice.... Director has been MIA since his 9 am dentist appointment (its 5:30 now). Found out all 3 set their phones to autoforward to me today. I've answered over 40 calls... and I'm not in a good mood since SOMEONE thought it would be ok to unplug a wire in the DMZ thats 1200 miles away.... I'm lucky I'm slacking enough to surf DZ.com... and now you want to ask about my spelling? My SPELLING??? GRRRRRR..... thats it.... no more nice weather for you.. *calling up Mother Nature* Hello Mother Nature?... Could you do me a favor and make it rain on anyone that laughed at that PhillyKev's poke at my spelling? Oh yeah... make sure it REALLY rains on Kevin. Just on the weekends though... and after 5pm every day.. and whenever he goes out to a DZ... Thanks... I'll owe you one..Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #55 July 22, 2002 Quote Obviously sdc gets scrutinized and watched over more. No surprise there. I just can't understand why they don't have more proof to back up statements such as "we don't jump through clouds", "we don't put tandems up in unsafe conditions" blah blah blah. When you know that occurrences at the dz will get higher publicity, why not go out of the way to keep detailed records of student jumps (record winds, time, take pictures prior to exiting to show clouds weren't an issue, etc etc). Uh, would you please take a step back and look that over again? Do you have proof that you didn't speed on the way to work this morning or run any red lights? Photos of the lights being green, time log of how long it took to get to work vs the miliage so we know how fast you were going? If not, should you get a ticket? It is not SDC's responisbility to prove they're safe, it is the responsibility of others to prove them unsafe. If SDC is violating student cloud jumps is it really so hard to get some video of it and take it to the FAA? Remember the moto "innocent until proven guilty"? Or did I wake up in France this morning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #56 July 22, 2002 Quote>I just have one question. What the hell is an "adminidities"?? Grrrr.... ok... I'm all alone at work... Boss is gone.. coworker might as well have turned in his notice.... Director has been MIA since his 9 am dentist appointment (its 5:30 now). Found out all 3 set their phones to autoforward to me today. I've answered over 40 calls... and I'm not in a good mood since SOMEONE tought it would be ok to unplug a wire in the DMZ thats 1200 miles away.... I'm lucky I'm slacking enough to surf DZ.com... and now you want to ask about my spelling? My SPELLING??? GRRRRRR..... thats it.... no more nice weather for you.. *calling up Mother Nature* Hello Mother Nature?... Could you do me a favor and make it rain on anyone that laughed at that PhillyKev's poke at my spelling? Oh yeah... make sure it REALLY rains on Kevin. Just on the weekends though... and after 5pm every day.. and whenever he goes out to a DZ... Thanks... I'll owe you one.. Man, that's uncalled for. I was just trying to add some humitrification to the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #57 July 22, 2002 QuoteI'm lucky I'm slacking enough to surf DZ.com... and now you want to ask about my spelling? My SPELLING??? GRRRRRR..... thats it.... no more nice weather for you.. Actually, as long as we're playing, see that word up there in bold type? I think you meant "that's", it is a contraction for "that is." - Jim Edited, The punctuation mark is now inside the quotes. Damnit, I knew that too. "Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #58 July 22, 2002 QuoteI think you meant "that's", it is a contraction for "that is". Punctuation inside quote marks, please. Now everyone lay off. I find Phree's chronic misspelling kind of...dangerous. Growl.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #59 July 22, 2002 QuoteI find Phree's chronic misspelling kind of...dangerous What a rebel!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #60 July 22, 2002 QuoteI will agree the ATC guy was a little carried away in saying SDC was in "the absolute worst place to be" - it's not the best either... but none of that is really relevent - SDC is where it is, it has as much right to be there (and to the sky) as the airliners. Given that ATC will vector aircraft wherever the hell they want to, and won't stick to the published routes, it's hard to imagine any "best" place to put a DZ within about 150 miles of a major city. Unfortunately, major cities are where lots of people live who want a DZ close by. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #61 July 22, 2002 Quote Uh, would you please take a step back and look that over again? Do you have proof that you didn't speed on the way to work this morning or run any red lights? Photos of the lights being green, time log of how long it took to get to work vs the miliage so we know how fast you were going? If not, should you get a ticket? It is not SDC's responisbility to prove they're safe, it is the responsibility of others to prove them unsafe. If SDC is violating student cloud jumps is it really so hard to get some video of it and take it to the FAA? Remember the moto "innocent until proven guilty"? Or did I wake up in France this morning? No, I don't have proof that I didn't speed on my way to class this morning. I also don't have thousands of people breathing down my neck saying that I am an unsafe driver. You're right in that a dz doesn't have to prove themselves innocent in a court of law. However, with many individuals claiming to have evidence of unsafe practices, I'm not sure why a dz that receives much publicity doesn't keep detailed records of their own. If safe practices are going on, this wouldn't take but one or two minutes extra for every jump. If people truly believe that this is going to change dzs everywhere, why not do something extra to prove that they don't need additional regulation. The point of my original post was not to say that dzs should keep records, because most don't need to and it won't happen. But, it seems many complaints are overlooked and given the attitude of "that doesn't happen" instead of further looked into. Unless they have evidence to the contrary, people may be ignoring an area in which measures of safety can be increased. And handing info over to the FAA? Wow! That would take guts! People receive so much criticism already for compaining, giving quotes, telling stories etc etc....I would hate to see what would happen if they talked to the FAA!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #62 July 23, 2002 QuoteThe point of my original post was not to say that dzs should keep records Actually they should. They are called "Dropzone Records" and involve a sort of DZ log book whereby instructors "tell what really happened" on student dives. As an instructor you are taught to minimize the negatives when you fill out a student log book. In the DZ log you can tell the truth. It's good back up in case some idiot sues you down the road. Not bad in a situation like this either... QuoteI also don't have thousands of people breathing down my neck saying that I am an unsafe driver. You must not watch CNN...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #63 July 23, 2002 QuoteATC's job is to provide traffic separation. Not to put too fine a point on it, but ATC's first job is to separate IFR traffic from one another. Any time ATC deals with VFR traffic it is as workload allows. In VMC, VFR traffic is always responsible for its' own separation even from IFR traffic, even if the IFR traffic is in IMC. BTW, if the IFR traffic is in VMC, they also must share the burden for their own separation. You do not have to take my word for this, contact anyone working in ATC.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #64 July 23, 2002 Also, you misspelled "grrrr" or "grrrrrrr" at least once...... My Compaq is back. I broke Jessica's voodoo spell that she had cast. Good thread......reminds me of the three occasions I visited rec.com. I can almost see the rivulets of blood trickling down the inside of my computer screen. Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #65 July 23, 2002 Quoten VMC, VFR traffic is always responsible for its' own separation even from IFR traffic, even if the IFR traffic is in IMC. Yes, I can see how well that will work when I'm flying legal VFR 2001 ft horizontally from a cloud, and inside the cloud is an IFR 747 coming straight at me. ATC won't tell the 747 'cos they know I'm on top of the situation.I looked up the NASA ASRS report on the incidents in the article. One of them turned out to be during the 300 way attempts in 2000, when the airliner reported a "near miss" with a formation of 6 jump ships. I know for a fact that those formation flights were well coordinated with ATC, that controllers from Chicago Center came out to SDC to discuss logistics (I even met them), and that ATC issued time windows for the flights that had to be met. The flights to altitude had clearances to enter the class A airspace. If anyone screwed up, it wasn't the DZ. The other incident was apparently over Morris, not SDC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #66 July 23, 2002 Oh, they'll tell the IFR 747, but they don't have to tell you about it. This has happened to me on more than one occasion in the LAX Class B while on a VFR clearance. The 747 is probably always going to be operating under IFR if it's going to be in Class A or Class B airspace anywhere near ORD. Hell, that's why they invented Class A & B airspace to begin with, to, at some minimal level, ensure that no flib VFRs get anywhere near big iron IFR traffic without ATC knowing about it. However, the rules are written as such that just because ATC gives you (VFR) permission to operate in their airspace, they are not responsible for your separation. I'll admit, that ATC on more occasions than not usually works with VFR traffic very well -- pointing out traffic and giving very nice, gentle reminders. However, I've also been denied/delayed entrance into several Class B, C and even D airspace segments just because the controllers were over worked, so I can only imagine how the guys over at ATC near ORD feel when they're on a push and the jump ships want some special treatment.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #67 July 23, 2002 QuoteIf anyone screwed up, it wasn't the DZ. But...but....I read it in an article in the paper. It must be true!!! and....and then I saw it on the internet too....... I think we can all agree that both these articles are long on innuendo and short on facts. Unfortunately, the innuendo seems to be on the negative side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbrian 0 #68 July 23, 2002 Can't keep mouth shut.... must voice opinion.... COMMON SENSE FOLKS!!! First of all, whuffos have and will always think that skydiving is nuts. No amount of press (good or bad) is going to change their minds. That's why they're whuffos. That's why we're skydivers. The difference between us is definitely a good thing. It's not our responsibility to make them like us, nor should we care if they do or not. Secondly, no DZ is any safer than any other. YOU ARE JUMPING OUT OF AN AIRPLANE! Get it together - that's just dangerous. A dz is not much more than a piece of ground. It doesn't matter if the ground is hilly, or the grass is long, or it's near water, or it's high altitude, or whatever. It doesn't matter if there are hp canopy pilots swooping, students spiraling, or tandems sinking. It doesn't matter if the planes have hang-up hazards on the doors, or they're held together with silly putty. YOU ARE JUMPING OUT OF AN AIRPLANE! If anything bad happens, the fault lies in your own hands. At some point, you made a decision (or a series of decisions) that got you into whatever situation. So don't take it out on the dz, the dzo, the pilots, the atc, the media, or anyone else. Many of those lost at SDC this year were friends of mine. I shed alot of tears and I desperately wish I could have them back, but I'm not blaming anyone other than themselves for their accidents. So remember that whether you're jumping at Eloy, Perris, Zhills, Deland, SDC, or wherever.... the dz is as safe as you are. peace, love, and hippie shit In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #69 July 23, 2002 QuotePerris, Zhills, Deland, SDC, or wherever.... the dz is as safe as you are. You said it, sistah! ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #70 July 23, 2002 QuoteCOMMON SENSE FOLKS Sorry dude.......but common sense isn't common!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #71 July 23, 2002 Quote(record winds, time, take pictures prior to exiting to show clouds weren't an issue, etc etc). Name another DZ that does that. I rest my case.....probably won't happen. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #72 July 23, 2002 Taking pictures? Oh Puhleeeeeeeeez! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #73 July 23, 2002 Actually... Val was telling that Skydive Indiana used to do that to get the FAA proof that they were not jumping through clouds unlike what the Airport Manager was saying so I'd say thats 1 DZ at least.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #74 July 23, 2002 Uh huh....... try running 99 loads a day during peak season and have someone taking pictures of clouds or no clouds...........I doubt that will happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #75 July 23, 2002 QuoteQuoteATC's job is to provide traffic separation. Not to put too fine a point on it, but ATC's first job is to separate IFR traffic from one another. Any time ATC deals with VFR traffic it is as workload allows. In VMC, VFR traffic is always responsible for its' own separation even from IFR traffic, even if the IFR traffic is in IMC. BTW, if the IFR traffic is in VMC, they also must share the burden for their own separation. You do not have to take my word for this, contact anyone working in ATC. Paul, skydiving is the ONLY VFR operation required to talk to ATC to do what it does. That makes us pretty much "IFR". We can't drop unless we are talking to them and they are talking to us. I've circled more than once waiting for a controller to get back to me. I am very much aware of the rules of ATC. And if they don't make an attempt to "seperate" traffic then it is just as morally wrong for them. There are three options to seperate jump traffic from ALL other traffic. 1. Tell the jump plane not to drop. 2. Tell the other aircraft to deviate left or right of course around the DZ (horizontal seperation is the only seperation). 3. Do not let the other aircraft descend below the jump plane's altitude until it is past. There should NEVER be a near miss between jumpers/jumpships/other aircraft. Does it happen? Yes. Because these three rules were not utilized. You can see for yourself ALL of the ASRS reports be going to the link I posted earlier. It is there for public viewing.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
