Farmer McNasty

[riddler 0]

Every DZ has to have one. It's tradition. I went to a new DZ today after my home DZ's King Air lost an engine. Had a good time there. They warned about McNasty.

There I was! Third jump! Sunset load! Winds were strong below 700 feet and I turned upwind 100 feet behind the peas and got blown backwards over 100 yards. After crashing landing backwards with no jumpsuit (a few scrapes and a banged knee that's still swollen), McNasty rides out on hs ATV to the three of us that landed on his property. After thouroghly yelling at each of us individually, he drives to the next person. I was last in line to hear about how sick he is of skydivers. Then I asked him for a ride back. He wasn't too happy about that ;-)

Anyway, one of my jump buddies points out that maybe if a skydiver gets hurt landing on farmer's property, they could sue the farmer for damage, and that's one reason farmers hate us. Most home and farm property insurance has clauses for third-party accidents, so it seems like it could happen. Anyone a lawyer here that could give us an idea of this is possible? We all sign waivers for our DZ, but I don't think that would apply outside the airport. Anyone heard of any case like this? It seems like it would be hard to win, but we've all heard of more frivolous lawsuits.

Also, I'm trying to figure out the legality of landing on someone else's property. One of my friends that's a hot-air balloon pilot told me that in an aerial emergency, a balloon can legally land on private property in the interest of safety, and I wonder if that's true, it may also apply to skydivers.

I'm only curious because McNasty sometimes brings out a shotgun with him and I wonder if someone "accidently" gets shot what the liability of that would be. Here in Colorado we have the infamous "make my day" law, where you can legally kill someone that is on your property and threatens your life. Obviously that wouldn't apply to most skydivers, but when you live in a state that seems to pride itself on it's wild-west mentality, you have to wonder if your life's at risk. Can't we all just get along?

So if anyone has any idea, and if we could try to avoid rumor and speculation, I would love to hear your input.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[AggieDave 6]

You are making an emergancy landing, since you are an unpowered aircraft. If a gun was pulled on you, I'm willing to bet you *could* make a case out of it. Honestly, unless you're doing something f**king stupid, farmer McNasty will leave you alone, maybe he'll even give you a ride back to the DZ. Atleast that's my experience.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jasmin 0]

There are 3 types of Famrer McNasty in my experience:
1) Passive: grumbles and insults you, but gives you a ride back to DZ or makes a call for someone to pick you up (Occasionally makes you walk back unhindered)
2) Abusive: the variety that make obscene calls to the manifestor, writes letters to politicians and the authorities, yells obscenities at you whilstwielding a shotgun and does their general best to ensure maximum distress to you and DZ.
3) Dangerous: DO NOT APPROACH. RUN ASAP AWAY! These are the kind that will fire warning shots over your head. They'll contaminate the plane fuel. They'll break fences so that animals run onto the strip. They'll leave you stranded with a busted leg, for the police chopper to find, rather than make a single phone call. In this case, take paint ball gun or similar painting device and smear animals of farmer in manner that makes threat clear: Do not f*ck with us. Or in case of evidence, file offical complaint.
In 20 years we've had al least one farmer that fits into each of these categories. The sugared fuel was my personal favourite....they got him. The obscene phone calls were pretty choice too: I just got permission to abuse them right on back, *10# and resume the conversation...priceless way to get rid of manifesting frustration!

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[freefalle 0]

in most states pointing a firearm at an unarmed person is called aggravated assault and is a felony. Farmer Mcnasty, COULD claim you are criminally trespassing by landing on his property, the problem with his claim is that, a crime requires INTENT to commit said crime. We dont ever intend to land anywhere other than on our intended landing area. Therefore a prosecutor wouldnt usually seek an indictment on the charge. If in the event, you were injuried subsequent to your landing, Farmer Mcnasty has a civil libality to compensate you for your injuries. However be advised that if farmer Mcnasty CAN prove that you intententionally landed on his property, in some states it is a FELONY to trespass on farm land. My suggestion is, in the unfortunate event that you are forced to land on the assholes property, and he either wants to prosecute you for trespassing or points a firearm at you, contact your local law enforcement agency and prosecute him for assault with a firearm. Additionally, if he attempts to make you leave your gear with him in order to egress from his property, thats called armed robbery,,,, you may want to remind the shithead of that

[Brains 2]

We used to have a Farmer McNasty. One day the DZO was riding up and down the fencline that divides the dz and McNasty's land FIXING the fence here and there. McNasty asked him what he was doing and he said, "From time to time skydivers land on your land and they have to climb over. I just wanted to make sure that there weren't any holes for your cattle to get out." From then on, no more problems with Farmer McNasty. If we have a cutaway and loose a freebag or something, the DZ will actually call him and let him know we will be out there looking for it. No more problems, just a little give and take.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Patkat 0]

Ya know, Farmer McNasties are made, not born, IMHO (although I'll grant you that some are born so inclined)
At my DZ we've been going to some trouble for many years to stay on good terms with out neigbors, including sending our nearest neighbors fruit baskets every Christmas and doing backyard demos if they want. Heck, back in the days of rounds, some jumpers would go pick tobacco for free at harvest time to help pay for crop damages.
The moral - if Farmer McNasty comes up to you and starts in, think of your fellow jumpers and smile, apologize, explain it was unintentional, and if that doesn't mollify ol' McNasty, offer to make up any property damage somehow - this just might keep the next jumper landing out from having a shotgun pointed at them.

As for the clown putting sugar in gas tanks, well, all bets are off, I guess. Shouldn't have gone that far, but there you are.

-patkat

Patkat
gotta exercise my demons!

[Samurai136 0]

One of my student jumps put me in the horse pasture north of the DZ. The herd came over, hooked up, and followed me around. Since this was a HUGE pasture I decided to walk to the closest fence line and follow that to the gate. The closest fence happened to be towards the DZ. When farmer McNasty showed up on his ATV he was convinced I was intending to hop the fence. I was still 50m away from the fence.

I figured most of his yelling was to impress his 10yr old son on the back of the ATV "how to treat strangers." After being yelled at for what seemed like an eternity, I asked, " Where is the gate? I would never hop a barbed wire fence. This is rental gear and if I rip the parachute I'm out like 4000$."


"The gate is OVER THERE!" He pointed to the otherside of the pasture. It was about 3/8th's of a mile walk to the gate. I still couldn't see it. It was nearly dark now. He made me walk (follow) behind him all the way to the gate. I did my very best "walk of shame". He calmed down. By the time we got out of the pasture he decided to give me a ride back to the DZ.


The real lesson is: If you're just off student status never volunteer to follow the CRW dogs out of the aircraft. You might not make it back to the DZ.


Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[WFFC 1]

on the topic of Farmer McNasty-Enjoy the reading here:
http://www.wrongmont.com/noise.html - Tom Zweck is our farmer mcnasty...

-----
~~~Michael

[riggerrob 561]

Most Farmer McNastys are made, not born.
They turn nasty after chasing too many city slickers off their property. Farmers have little patience for city slickers who trample crops, steal fruit, scare lifestock, damage fences or leave gates open. They also don't like loud airplanes that wake them on their one day of rest per week.
A bit of courtesy will go a long way towards keeping neighboring farmers happy.

[jraf 0]

We of course have a farmer McNasty. I never have landed on his property and never experienced anyone doing it. Apparently he just gets all pissed off when you jump his fence. There are no greater problems if you walk to his house, tell him what happened and exit through the gate.
Now some of you described shotguns and such - I am a strong believer in the right to bear arms and defend yourself. Anybody points a gun at me, and they will be facing 9mm justice. I know I sound all gung ho, but if someone points a weapon at you it is good reason to believe they want to kill you. Even unloaded guns fire by themselves once a year. Do not act like helpless game - make sure that your McNastys know that skydivers will not turn the other cheek. We have our sport and our very expensive gear. We do not (in 99% of cases) intentionally invade anyones privacy, but let our McNasty's show us some respect.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[mattwhoo 0]

Quote

http://www.wrongmont.com/noise.html - Tom Zweck is our farmer mcnasty...

I just read that entire page I can't get over how nuts that guy realy is. Sounds like someone needs a trip to the loony bin!

Matt

Providing ingenious solutions to all of your nonexistent problems! (For a fee)

[wmw999 2,160]

I did too (no one tell...), and I looked for other references on altavista, too. He's apparently an excellent organic farmer, whose family has had that farm for over a century. I wonder how he got to hate the airport so much, and when it started. It doesn't sound like there's much hope now, and he has a serious bug up his ass, but it doesn't cost me anything to sit here a thousand miles away and wonder...

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[happythoughts 0]

Our farmer McNasty has parked his jeep tire on a rig before.
However, my favorite story was when some Navy SEALs were training and one landed in his tree. One SEAL was cutting a limb from the guy's tree to save his canopy and the guy came out and shot a hole in the canopy. OK, it wasn't a good neighbor to cut the tree limb, I'll give the farmer that. Still, I'm betting that the one group that you shouldn't threaten is a SEAL team who knows where you live.

[Brisco 0]

I read it all too. Perhaps ol' Tom has been smoking some of what he's been growing! Seriously, I got the feeling that complaining about the planes, lights, helicopters, skydivers, the airport being too quiet, etc., etc. is his hobby (everyone needs a hobby, don't they?) I mean, it was evident that he would complain even when he had nothing to complain about. Maybe all the skydivers out there could chip in a buck or two and treat ol' Tom to a tandem dive. Might change his attitude. Otherwise, his complaints were a real hoot!!

Brisco

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

[Viking 0]

nope no farmers at Otay just alot of hills and Cactus.....ain't that right Johnny

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[jraf 0]

Man, you are talking about our Zhills McNasty. The dude is lucky he did not shoot above my head. I have a policy of shooting back

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[WFFC 1]

The real funny thing, and the purpose of the wrongmont.com website, is that he threatened a pilot (aka the webmaster I believe) and farmer mcnasty's property isn't even in the city. The airport belongs to the city, not the county and the city has been bending over backwards to try to make sure he's happy. Enough is enough and we'll see what happens from here.
Here's an idea...Offer to buy the land to expand the airport. He refuses, get a judge to condemn the land and then the city gets to buy it dirt cheap and expand the airport. Problem solved. There's only one other neighbor that I know of that has a problem with the airport. Other than that, people had a clue when they moved in that they were living next to an airport and to expect some noise.

-----
~~~Michael

[wingnut 0]

i know that that web site is a serous site, but damn i though it was funny as hell..... i jump down at front range but maybe 'll venture up to longmont....... [sarcasm on]wonder if i could talk some of my pilot friends into doing 1000ft passes in thier f-16's over the railroad tracks[sarcasm off] i wish the best in getting the problem resolved and am thankfull that there is no real farmer mcnasty where i jump.....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Here I sit in my insomniac trance (when I really should be sleeping) reading about Tom Zweck's complaints about the airport traffic in Longmont, CO (my home DZ) and I can't help but laugh and cry at the same time. Who knows maybe I've been the cause of some of his complaints (after all I am a licensed private pilot who's landed at 2V2 hundreds of times). Hell maybe now that I know that Longmont has a lunny-bird neighbor, I will make an effort to be quiter when I fly there. Na, who am I kidding, now I want to buzz the goof's property the next time I fly there. Of course I wouldn't want to land in his property while skydiving and I do believe I was warned about him (he's just immediately north-northwest of the airport right) when I was first starting my skydiving training earlier this summer.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[happythoughts 0]

The Zhills McNasty and the dz have worked out an agreement. If you chop over his land, talk to manifest first. The first instinct is to jump the fence and look for it - don't. Manifest will call the guy, let him know you are coming. He's a butthead either way, but the dz has worked to get a good image with the local police. He's the only fly in the ointment.
If you decide to shoot him, take a number and get in line. I can help, I'm scalping low numbers.

[jraf 0]

Oh, well, OK But I fire only when fired upon. Seriously - Sally and TK told me about it. I circled around his property several times just to know the topography of his place. Given that we have a load of space of choice to land I will do my best not to land there. If evil gods and bad winds happen to dump me on his property I will start with knocking on his door and beeing real nice......but please, keep the number for me I don't take being shouted at very well....... .

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[gale 0]

Hmmm, these are some pretty amazing stories. Our farmer doesn't like us much but I don't think he'd get a gun... Here's the story that comes to mind though...

We rent the field we land in from a farmer. It's not next to the airport as we can't get permission to land there. We rent this field for a LOT of money and each year the farmer makes the field smaller and smaller by planting more crops around it. (Occasionally you'll be landing and see his farm vehicles driving on the field cutting grass, bailing hay, etc. I couldn't beleive it the first time I had to land there as a student with a moving truck on the Landing area)

Anyway, we were doing night jumps one night and I went out to watch. There is a little access road to the field that the farmer uses for his vehicles and that we don't normally use (we walk up to the main road) and that he puts irrigation tubes accross sometimes. We know this and planned to drive the vans onto the field around the irrigation stuff. We get there, and they're blocking the field and won't let us drive the vans out. The skydivers are already IN THE AIR and there's no light at the dz. We first calmly (then angrily) explain to the farmers son (blocking the road) that we know about his equiptment, and will drive around it and PEOPLE COULD DIE if he doesn't f%$#ing move. It amazed me that he didn't seem to care.

Well, there was a bunch of silliness (trying to contact the plane...trying to move the farmer...) and in the end all was well and the night jumps did happen.

But yeah, someone who would put live in danger when we pay them for ACCESS/USE OF THEIR LAND is an as***#@.

Screw you farmer McNasty, and farmer McNastys everywhere!

Gale

I'm drowning...so come inside
Welcome to my...dirty mind

[happythoughts 0]

Everyone - try to remember that there is a flip side.
When the Connie was at Quincy, you were guaranteed to land off. Weren't the locals great ? "C'mon in... a glass of tea ?" "Can I give you a ride back ?" I've met a lot of cool farmers in a lot of places. As in all walks of life, there are some buttheads. Most are nice and helpful, so be courteous and it generally works out great!
Doing 4-way, 2nd to last group out of the Connie. I walked out of a field with my buddy and a woman drives up with her daughter in their truck. "Can we give you a ride ?" Hopped in. "Thanks for the ride". "Glad to help. This is exciting. We've never had jumpers land this far out."

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

This is exciting. We've never had jumpers land this far out."

Eciting for you? Wanna watch the video of me dodging those power lines....

[happythoughts 0]

"dodging those power lines"
I was standing there wiping my Tevas because I could smell some cow poop on them. The woman said "Oh, that won't come off for a while. We just plowed 2 tons of pig manure into that field". She was right. I scrubbed them with dishwashing detergent and ran them through the washing maching twice. Whew! I think it had to wear off.
If you want to play "adventures with power lines", have you been to Monroe? The dz is in the middle of a residential area.