Ever had that person that just doesn't listen?

[Feeblemind 1]

Just recently I have encountered a few folks that either don't listen, don't care or both. One particular individual was so bad I advised the 4-way team I was flying camera for that I would not board the aircraft if this particular person was on the load.

I admit to my mistakes and damn near killed myself and another jumper due to a combination of errors on both our parts three weeks ago (I am sure it wil be on skydivingmovies soon), but!! I listen to others and try not to make the same mistake twice.

There are those individuals out there that seem just not to get it and the scare the hell out of me. Everyone is on the Swoop vs standard pattern issue and so on. What about the damn morons that fly diagonally across the pattern or enter into swoopers alley at 600 ft (after specifically being warned it is a high performance landing zone, avoid it if not doing HP landings), track up the line of flight cause they might not make it back, spiral down over the center of the landing area for whatever damn reason, etc etc.

I am venting yes, normally I sit in brakes and land near the end of the pattern to avoid those little issues, but I cant avoid some moron tracking up the line of flight or being on the ground and having some type of issue that results in me needing to medically treat a broken jumper.

So in a nutshell:

Pay attention, keep your head on a swivel and follow the DZ landing pattern rules, use common since (don't track either up or down jump run), be patient enter the pattern and fly predictably, last but not least Swooping is not a crime (give them a little space)

Okies feel free to flame me or chime in and add to the common sense approach.


Stay safe!

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[monkycndo 0]

It's OK to vent Phil. When you start feeling this way, just keep a smile on your face and think happy thoughts.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[stratostar 5]

Quote

Ever had that person that just doesn't listen?

Yep and it only took 5 years till he killed someone else and then left the sport and moved away once he was out of the wheel chair.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[AFFI 0]

Quote

I would not board the aircraft if this particular person was on the load.

So if that person is on every load, you are not going to jump?

I understand your frustration, (believe me you are not alone), but there will always be others who do not live up to and meet certain expectations. There will always be others who do not track, fly and land their canopy in manners that are different than the standards you set for yourself. There are all kinds of skydivers at varying experience levels and intellectual levels and you can either choose to live along side of them, or decide that skydiving is not safe enough for you because of all the individuals out there who are not as aware and willing to follow rules as you who are and let it irritate you until it drives you away from the sport.

The longer you stay in the sport, the more you will realize that most do not stay for long, most fizzle out for whatever reason and few make it to the 10+ year mark, so be patient, see how you feel about it 10 years from now…

Really, all you can do is keep your side of the street clean and lead by example (it is infectious), rise above the mindsets that you are experiencing distaste for. And remember, as you pointed out, we all make mistakes, and sometimes we learn for them quickly, sometimes not and the practices some think are acceptable, are not to others. So there is no real need to condemn those who “do not get it” in your perspective…
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[BillyVance 34]

yeah.... me....

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

add to the common sense approach.

Sometimes it just does not work. Niether does whining on here.

"Say hello to my little friend" works most of the time though....

Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[sraja 0]

Quote

...(don't track either up or down jump run)...

I agree in principle that this is not good - but if you are on a 4 way or larger group, it may so happen that someone tracks up or down jumprun. I think the only way to minimize this risk is with adequate separation and also making sure that all jumpers clear their airspace before deploying.. am i correct?

[stratostar 5]

Yes

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[D22369 0]

Ever had that person that just doesn't listen?***


yup, his lack of awareness and common sense got him booted from the dz I used to work at after nearly cratering in due to pure stupidity on several occasions.

he went to the competition dz and broke himself quite badly, I was glad he lived, and didnt kill anyone, but his accident was no surprise, he was searching for it from day 1.

thankfully he is out of the sport.

there have been others, but he stands out above all the others I can think of.



I admit to my mistakes***

everyone makes mistakes, some are simple, some are tragically big, its part of being human. The people who make mistakes and admit them are not the problem, its the jackasses that always have an excuse for what they did, they place the blame on others or try to convince you that they have it all under controll.... these are the ones that scare me.

My fucktard award of the year goes to:
:dumbshits ripping a 270 in congested airspace
(I am a swooper and save my 270's for the right time and place, playing russian roulette with other people lives is bullshit - responsible swoopers know when to suck it up and land with the flow, but some still dont get it, and grounding people who endanger others seems to be a thing of the past anymore...
:
Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[MagicGuy 0]

Man, I know the feeling. There is one person in particular at my DZ that refuses to listen. He's got the attitude that he's been around for so long so he knows what he's doing, and it's everyone elses fault when he fucks up.

He sachets (s-turns) on final on nearly every jump. Likes to hang out in brakes, fucking up the people behind him so he can hit the peas. He's cut me off, on final, at least 3 times. Last time he had the nerve to say to me "We don't want to be that close under canopy again" where I replied "Than stay away! You were a thousand feet above me and I STILL spiraled to get the hell away from you".

Oh, he's also pulled about 20 feet away from me. I purposely wanted him to leave the plane before me (he is a heavy guy and was jumping with other big guys) because I assumed he would fall fast and whatnot. He insisted on leaving after my group because he was pulling higher. I'm under canopy, doing my controlability check, I look over and I literally see him grab his pilot chute and throw it. Not cool. If I had pulled 2 seconds earlier he would've been freefalling through my canopy. I get to the ground and ask him why he did that. He said "You guys gotta give us more time in the door"

WHAT?!? You left after us, DUMBASS!

Ahhh. So much emphasis on the high performance stuff when basic pattern rules are still being broken.

[VideoFly 0]

I jump with a guy who never listened to me, but I kept talking to him when I thought he was unsafe. He is nursing a newly implanted titanium rod right now. Concerning video with unsafe jumpers, I have no problems saying no to videoing people who scare me.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I jump with a guy who never listened to me, ......... He is nursing a newly implanted titanium rod right now. .......

man, when you get mad at someone, you really get mad at them

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Glitch 0]

No doubt... I mean he could have just dumped the guys reserve during a pin-check to keep him on the ground, and avoided the whole issue of having to bond out of jail for assault.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[Krip 2]

Quote

I jump with a guy who never listened to me, but I kept talking to him when I thought he was unsafe. He is nursing a newly implanted titanium rod right now.

Ask him if he wants to sell his gear so he can downsize

[hukturn 0]

Actually, I think this is less about venting and more about legitimate concerns.
If you believe someone is unsafe, c"all them out". Absolutely, step off of the load. It just might save your life. And, unsafe acts are not restricted to swooping. From the time you step onto the airplane to the time you are at the bonfire at night, you are subject to someone elses mistakes.

[Zing 2]

You ain't even safe around the bonfire! The only fatality i had to deal with over the 7 years I ran Ghoulidge was a guy who was wrestling around with some friends and ended up falling into a deep pit filled with hot coals where a pig was being roasted.

Zing Lurks

[Feeblemind 1]

Quote

Actually, I think this is less about venting and more about legitimate concerns.
If you believe someone is unsafe, c"all them out". Absolutely, step off of the load. It just might save your life. And, unsafe acts are not restricted to swooping. From the time you step onto the airplane to the time you are at the bonfire at night, you are subject to someone elses mistakes.

Hukturn as I said "individuals that don't Listen, Care or both. I did scratch off loads when certain individuals manifested after me or I passed if I saw them on a load. My instructor taught me from day one, "you are responsible for your own ass!!" His voice was loud and clear in my head.

I and others tried to educate the individuals, but it was apparent it didn't do much good, very sad!

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[hukturn 0]

Now, I have never scratched due to a safety issue related to an individual. But, if the need arised I believe that I would. I know it must suck, but missing out on one load just might make a difference in whether or not you can make your next load. I feel ya...too bad you couldn't reach them.

I believe it was the Refreshments who sang..."Everybody knows that the world is full of stupid people". I believe it.

[riggerrob 558]

If several people routinely refuse to be on the same load as Mr. X, manifest will quickly tire of the hassle.

[DSE 3]

I've never scratched a load because Mr. X was on it, I just won't go in his stick. I believe he's about got it figured out, however. There are a couple others that keep telling him "I don't think so, thanks for asking."

[AFFI 0]

I am with the big “D” on this one – like I give a fuck if so and so is sitting across the Otter from me.

To me, skydiving is all about taking risks and having the freedom to do so, and the most irresponsible skydiver with a total disregard for safety was not as apparent to me until after I got my rating and really started paying attention to the safety levels of others and how many under-trained and reckless individuals there are on the plane at any one time.

If there is an individual I have it in for, it is probably more personal than anything and since I am of the opinion that anyone willing to sign the waiver, “pay their money and take their chances” has a much right an the next person to jump, I never feel inclined to not share the sky with so and so.
There are enough people in the world full of self righteous indignation trying to save others from themselves, I try not to add to that mess, especially at the DZ…

The sky is full of potential accidents waiting to happen, some more so than others…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[skybytch 259]

Quote

If there is an individual I have it in for, it is probably more personal than anything and since I am of the opinion that anyone willing to sign the waiver, “pay their money and take their chances” has a much right an the next person to jump, I never feel inclined to not share the sky with so and so.

I pays my money and takes my chances, but that doesn't mean I have to take every possible chance. What it does mean is that it's my job to keep me safe.

Skydiving is a risk management sport. One way for me to manage the risks is to choose not to skydive with people who scare me. If they scare me in freefall or at break off, I can choose not to be on the same jump with them. If they scare me under canopy I can choose not to be on the same airplane as they are.

To me, avoiding being on the plane with certain people is kinda like choosing not to jump in 25 mph winds - yeah, everything would probably work out fine but I'd rather not up the number of risk factors for one skydive. There'll always be another load... and as long as I'm alive and unhurt, I can get on that one instead.

It's nuthin' personal. I'll happily share a beer and conversation with people that I'd prefer not to share the sky with. I'm not trying to save anybody else from themselves - I'm trying to save me.

I'm pretty important to me.

[DSE 3]

Quote

[
Skydiving is a risk management sport. One way for me to manage the risks is to choose not to skydive with people who scare me. If they scare me in freefall or at break off, I can choose not to be on the same jump with them. If they scare me under canopy I can choose not to be on the same airplane as they are.

I'd suppose this is one benefit of having 3 landing areas and very good separation between them; I'm not afraid to be in the air with people I'm not comfortable being near under canopy. There is always the east or west side, and North, South, or West landing areas.
The biggest fear I have is of a skygod or two that has to swoop every landing, hook every landing, and even though I'm usually out after them, there is the occasion that they're with a student and they have to burn their way down to hook/swoop the landing area. When I'm in the air on those occasions, I stay well off until I've seen them land. Even if they're not hooking it into your approach, they'll still bitch about you being in "their airspace."

[AFFI 0]

bytch, you are always right on with your posts and this one is no exception - right on indeed...

Seems like these days though, there is at least one or more on every load that scare me under canopy ... Glad we have 130 acre landing area...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…