An analogy that makes me mad

[misskriss 0]

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So the people that are paying get in line first.

So do you mean this across the board..?? You're almost implying that those who can't afford healthcare be denied while the rich get treated. .There are many hard working Americans who can't afford health insurance at all and if they get emergency care we still end up paying for it. Do you have a problem with that too? Just curious..

[PhillyKev 0]

From an article that sides with those of you against treating illegal immigrants, the annual cost of that treatment is about 200million.

I challenge those of you who think she never should have gotten treatment to go to a hospital or clinic, find a sick or dying child, look them in the face and think to yourself that you'd rather get back your 65 cent share of the 200million rather than see that child get better.

[PhillyKev 0]

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If I try to help and something goes wrong, I am risking being sued or incarcerated.

NOPE. No you're not, there are good sameritan laws in all 50 states to protect you from that! For that specific reason.

Only if you hold a red cross first aid certification.

[Ron 7]

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And what does is the value of this?: "America, Land Of The Free, Home Of The Brave. Send Me Your Tired,
Sick And Hungry" Or is it one of those cases where they didn't really mean it that way.....

Ya think they might have really been saying "Come in LEAGALLY, live here LEGALLY..and have a good life?

I do.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AggieDave 6]

Did you miss the post that Michele posted? I'd much much rather see my tax dollars being put to use helping out Americans that need it, like she did but couldn't get, then someone who's not even supposed to be here. That 2-million could have easilly found a few thousand to give to Michele to help her with her surgery, but it couldn't because it was being used for people who don't have a right to it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Enrique 0]

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I challenge those of you who think she never should have gotten treatment to go to a hospital or clinic, find a sick or dying child, look them in the face and think to yourself that you'd rather get back your 65 cent share of the 200million rather than see that child get better.

[Ron 7]

I would rather have it go to a CITIZEN of the country first...then after our own stop dying...extend a helping hand.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[flyingferret 0]

Nobody said don't treat underprivileged people. We were talking about legality.

Has everyone glanced over the fact: THIS FAMILY DID NOT COME SEEKING URGENT MEDICAL HELP. THEY WERE FOR THREE YEARS!!!! That is long enough to do it legally. It was not like a traffic accident.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[Enrique 0]

That's exactly what I'm asking you. To me it's very ambivalent.

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, I saw Michelle's post. Did you see that she did receive the treatment that she needed even without assistance. If it were a case of her not getting the treatment without assistance, then yes, I'd choose a citizen first. I would be more pissed about subsidizing someone who could afford to pay themselves, even if they had to struggle a bit to do so, than someone who can't afford it at all.

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Has everyone glanced over the fact: THIS FAMILY DID NOT COME SEEKING URGENT MEDICAL HELP. THEY WERE FOR THREE YEARS!!!! That is long enough to do it legally.

They came here three years ago TO GET MEDICAL HELP. It took three years until they got it. And it's not that easy getting citizenship in this country if you don't have a specific job skill or are escaping political persecution.

[billvon 2,471]

>NOPE. No you're not, there are good sameritan laws in all 50 states
> to protect you from that! For that specific reason.

Ironically, they often don't apply to healtcare workers. So if Amy and I were to stop to help someone, I would have to "treat" them to be immune from lawsuits. Me, someone without even a current EMT certificate, instead of an orthopedic surgeon. Ah, America.

[Michele 1]

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Yes, I saw Michelle's post. Did you see that she did receive the treatment that she needed even without assistance

Um, Kev? I think you're missing the point. If I didn't have the cash money, I wouldn't have gotten treatment. My sole option was to max the credit cards, borrow rent from my father, and struggle horrendously. I couldn't buy insurance. I couldn't get any assistance from the government in whatever form it came from, and the charity hospitals were full. I got "assistance". From my father. From Visa, Discover, AMEX. None of which was a gift, and all which will be repaid.

I am, btw, not angry that Jessica got the surgery. I am not angry that many illegal residents get assistence. It's simply just that, at the end of the day, when I asked for help, I was denied because I was NOT illegal, nor had any dependents, and I was the wrong ethnicity. I would have liked some help from my government. I didn't ask for it because it was convenient, or because it was there. I asked because I needed it. And I was denied. And because of the denial, I am suffering and will likely continue to be broke for a long time.

What I don't understand, Kev, is your intimation that I don't deserve any assitance. Can you please articulate, simply and directly, why it's acceptable for me to be in the financial bind I was (and am) in, because the government wouldn't assist me when I needed it?

As for struggling a "bit", I will be struggling for a while.

I honestly hope that you do not ever find yourself in the situation I was in, Kev.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[harryskydives 0]

Basically you're saying that you would not agree to higher taxes if it would save human lives. That's kind of cold IMO.

NOt Basically: i am saying it outright. As taxes go up more people find ways not to pay: lie, cheat, ect. Once the tax rates get too high you get massive inflation,and less desire to work. then higher taxes still untill the goverment get everything, that would be called socialism, Humm that doesent work. no movation. So inforcing it becomes communism Lets see: how well is that working? No clear answers. Many of my best friends (er packers) do not pay taxes or for health insurance.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[freeflyz 0]

A small minded remark by a small minded person! So in other words if you don't break the law it's alright???? So your butt hurt cause the family is going to sue for millions and be rich or is it cause she got treatment in the USA???

[flyingferret 0]

But the fact still stand that is was three years ago. All the analogies about providing assistance in accident or another situation do not apply. This had plenty of time to be dealt with legally.

Ron: dont feed the trolls. it is not worth it.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[freeflyz 0]

That funny that the Texans are always so gun ho.So if your not American your a piece of shit huh? I'm so sorry you feel this way!

[billvon 2,471]

>A small minded remark by a small minded person!

No personal attacks.

[harryskydives 0]

You're almost implying that those who can't afford healthcare be denied while the rich get treated. .There are many hard working Americans who can't afford health insurance at all and if they get emergency care we still end up paying for it.

There are certainly no clear cut answers. The way insurance works is a large group of people pay small fees to off set the large unexpected costs. There has to be lines drawn. With technology advancements, Law suits, and every one thinking they should have the best Dr, best Hospital, best treatment, best drugs (all pronounce most expesive) the cost could out weigh the gross national product. The more that take without putting into the system the less services there are to go around. ie how many teams, orginizers, skygods can you DZ sponsor, until there is no fuel to fly the otter.
I don't want to be the person drawing those lines, but my opinion is if one pays nothing, is illegal, they get minimum treatment. And if they sue and win, the money goes to pay their bills and other peoples bills without health insurance. Its not a lottery. No free ride, buy a blue ticket. (no I am not knocking sponcered teams, or load orginizers)

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[freeflyz 0]

IF you don't like it...pack your bags poncho!!

Ron

[BoobieCootie 0]

[wmw999 2,170]

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...if one pays nothing, is illegal, they get minimum treatment. And if they sue and win, the money goes to pay their bills and other peoples bills without health insurance.

Actually, this is a pretty cool idea for the punitive damages. Not necessarily illegal, but pretty much anyone, or at least anyone being treated with public money.

Obviously compensatory damages are different (if you need permanent fulltime care due to someone's negligence, that should come out of award money).

But to put the punitive damages towards a public insurance plan is a really great idea, and I'll bet it would get some support.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[misskriss 0]

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IF you don't like it...pack your bags poncho!!

yeah....no kidding.....what kind of statement is that...

[flyingferret 0]

freeflyz, seriously this thread was a peaceable debate until you showed up. Come on man, keep the peace.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[billvon 2,471]

>So what do you call this MR BILLVON??

OK, EVERYONE stop with the personal attacks before I have to pull this car over. And no, just because someone else did something bad does not make it OK for you to break the rules as well.

[freeflyz 0]

I'm sorry I forgot I'm mexican i don't have the right!