flyingferret 0 #176 February 28, 2003 Ewww, picking on Bill, ehh? Getting in before the ass-whopping-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #177 February 28, 2003 >I'm sorry I forgot I'm mexican . . . So did I; what does that have to do with anything? >i don't have the right! Correct. See the forum rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #178 February 28, 2003 So i read the rule only applys to me MR BILLVON! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #179 February 28, 2003 "This ain't no damn democracy!!!" ......HH if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #180 February 28, 2003 A)I don't think that we should foot the bill for the world or bring the entire world to a single standard of living. B) But, if someone has access to medical care (while we are footing the bill to bring them to our standard of living), I don't care where they are from or their legal status Which is it please pick A or B? Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #181 February 28, 2003 >Which is it please pick A or B? I understood him, I think. Basically we should make decisions _up_front_ as to who will pay, who is accepted for treatment etc based on some criteria, like US citizenship. Once they are being treated they are treated exactly like anyone else no matter what their legal status. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #182 February 28, 2003 QuoteSo i read the rule only applys to me MR BILLVON Nope, it applies to everyone, even the moderators can get in trouble. The point is that the rest of the folks in this thread are debating their view points in a civilized manner, you are not.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #183 February 28, 2003 Hey dude you don't know me...and I don't know you...It was not meant as a personal attack...yours was... Look dude..If anyone is not in this country legally...Then get out. I am not interested in paying for ANYONES health care but my own...If I need to help out someone..I will, BUT I CHOOSE TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY,FRIENDS,AND THE PEOPLE IN MY OWN COUNTRY FIRST. But I guess just because I don't agree with you OH mighty world thinker...I guess I am stupid.... Get real...get a life...Get out if you are not legal. I stand behind if your illegal, pack the fucking bags. And if this girl was standing infront of me.....I help her right back across the what ever river she swam to get here. Don't like it???? To bad."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #184 February 28, 2003 QuoteAnd what about you. If your child needed surgery that was only available in a foreign country that you could not legally enter, would you go there anyway? I would. But with every such choice you make, you must assume the implicit risks. Things go wrong. No amount of lawsuits will stop that. If the prevailing laws allow the involved to sue then let them do it. And let the case then be tested against the law. In response to the title: QuoteAn analogy that makes me mad What is there to get mad at? You can't change laws at will, and that will be the benchmark here. My apologies for jumping into this thread so late. - From the country where the world's first heart transplant was done. -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #185 February 28, 2003 Michelle...was not trying to imply that you don't deserve assistance. Like I said, in a perfect world, no one would have to pay for healthcare. It should be a basic fundamental right as a human being. The fact that you were denied assistance based on arbitrary rules is ridiculous and I'm sorry for that. But the bottom line is you did get the medical help that you needed. You were able to scrimp, borrow, beg and do what you needed to do in order to get it. And I'm pretty sure that if you were in a situation where that wouldn't have done it, you would have had some options to still get what you needed done. It was hard for you, could have been even harder, but it would have gotten done. For some people, though, no matter what, they would not have had the ability to get the treatment they needed (you had credit cards and a father), some people don't even have those options. And to put it bluntly, yes, I'd rather see my tax dollars go to help someone who will die without treatment who can't get it any other way rather than someone who can get it by going into debt and struggling for it. The fact that they are an illegal alien has no factor in my thoughts on that, a human is a human. The reason it's acceptable for you to be in a financial bind is that you will come out of it. Yes it sucks, and yes, trust me, I've been there. I've had periods of my life where I've lived on strangers floors and had to steal food and toilet paper to get by, I'm thinking you're not that bad off. I'm sorry that you had to struggle, but at the end of the day, you're still financially better off than most of those who receive free healthcare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #186 February 28, 2003 Quote A)I don't think that we should foot the bill for the world or bring the entire world to a single standard of living. B) But, if someone has access to medical care (while we are footing the bill to bring them to our standard of living), I don't care where they are from or their legal status Which is it please pick A or B? They are not mutually exclusive. There's a difference between a medically necessary procedure in order to live and the American standard of living. I believe everyone should have the right to required medical care, even if I have to pay some of the cost, but I don't want to subsidize their car or lobster dinner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #187 February 28, 2003 Quote IF you don't like it...pack your bags poncho!! A line that very concisely describe an entire attitude . Another thing I noted in life is that those who whine the loudest about "wasted tax [currency unit of your choice here]" are often among those who contribute few (if any) of the aforesaid [same currency unit of your choice here] to the state coffers . -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,152 #188 February 28, 2003 QuoteI'd much much rather see my tax dollars being put to use helping out Americans that need it hey Dave correct me if I am wrong but, you are a student and work on a dz. How much taxes do you really pay. Maybe if you would report your taxes correctly, there would be money for people like Michele to get money for her medical expenses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #189 February 28, 2003 Quote hey Dave correct me if I am wrong but, you are a student and work on a dz. How much taxes do you really pay. Dekker, leave the poor students alone. I remeber from my student days how hard a life it was. The daily duties like sleeping in, the drinking of beer, the eating of food, constant exposure to rowdy parties etc. As if that was not enough you had to be a sexual acrobat as well, in addition to having to endure three month holidays twice a year! And then people come and squander your tax dollars as well. It really is too hard a life. -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,152 #190 February 28, 2003 Damn Meatmissle, now I have to go clean my screen.... That was funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weirdchris 0 #191 February 28, 2003 almost seems like a waste of organs, the girl would have died with or without the surgury, the fact that two set of organs were used to failure. this was a needless surgury and should have not been done to begin with. the prognosis was extremely poor for a recovery, the mother knew it and had to sign a consent for the procedure, so the lawsuit is in fact unjustified, weather it be the wrong organs or not. The life support machines had nothing to do with the organs being bad, it was the auto immune response that attacked the body, the blood pressure med(s)one of which called (dopamine), make the kidney shut down beyond 10mcg, I'm sure she had more than that too boot. either way the girl was doomed and it was her time. sad but true. sorry have to go check my organ damaging life support machines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #192 February 28, 2003 They meant send them LEGALLY!!!! Just like my ancestors came here!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #193 February 28, 2003 Your a funny guy there Ron? Where is your family from AMERICA? I doubt it pal!! Not one person here is 100% American!!! It's just sad to see people that think like you, you must be a direct desendent of Hitler himself! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #194 February 28, 2003 Look free.. I started this debate as a civilized one. Just because you disagree, and have emotional attachment to the subjuct, does not allow you to attack people. Hey, I disagree with you, but I respect your views. I am just asking you to do the same to other people. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #195 February 28, 2003 I am trying to avoid this thread....but.... I see your point Kev, but there is a line. Just because someone survives, does not mean it should be that hard. I agree she pulled through and showed character doing it. Do I think she should have faced what she did? No. You ahve to put bounds on your theory, otherwise it could be carried to something like: "Your airbag hurt you? But is saved your life didn't? You lived, there is no reason to really turn it off." Just because you survived does not mean there is not a better way. I made it through school and I am grateful for it, but I think there is a much better. I saw kids get Pell Grant that did not give a rats arse, because all they had to do was keep above failing to keep the Pell Grant. Yes they are underprivileged, they deserved the chance to be there. Did they deserve the change to stay there? No, I dont think so. I would have loved even $1000 grant a semester. But I never got it. Anyway, I dont want to drag Michelle's life around anymore, I am sure it is already a little weird seeing your life debating in a forum. But I just wanted to share my views.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #196 February 28, 2003 >you must be a direct desendent of Hitler himself! That's it. I banned you for a few days; when you come back please consider if you want to continue posting here. If you do, please follow the rules. One of the rules is no personal attacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #197 February 28, 2003 Actually....most of us are 100% American. American is not a race! It is a culture, and in my opinion, if you live here you are by definition part of it. But some people just cannot accept that. They want to get the benefits, but sing praises about all the nostalgia of the old country.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #198 February 28, 2003 Proof that the system works. Thanks to everyone for proving we can debate a complex issue without degenerating into .rec-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #199 February 28, 2003 I have to say thanks Bill!!! I am real happy that for the most part this has been a very peacefull and good debate. Though I think some of your views are crazy, it is good to hear them voiced!!! Man I love America, and this forum for that matter!!! Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #200 February 28, 2003 QuoteMaybe if you would report your taxes correctly, there would be money for people like Michele to get money for her medical expenses Maybe you should quit assuming things about me. My money and my taxes are my business, but here's some facts for you. I reported all my earnings. Here's another fact: Since I'm a student, the government gives me back every red penny. At this point I'm fairly pissed off at your implying that I am commiting tax fraud, but instead of sinking to your level and responding to your personal attack with another one, I'm going to leave you with those two simple facts.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
