When is it time to quit?

[gale 0]

""Okay, it's just NOT getting better." and, "This is just normal newbie fears."?"
OK, so seeing as I'm the one who's scared a lot I'll try to explain my view on this.
About ten jumps ago I was thinking of quitting as I just wasn't progressing through the practice pulls and I had just done a jumps where I didn't have any fun because of how I beat myself up about it on the ground. But I'd never freefallen then and I didn't think I could really decide how much I liked things until then - so I tried PFF.
My first level of PFF went really badly. I was as scared as on my first jump and I was unstable most of the dive and the instructor had to pull my chute for me when_I_was_unstable. When I got to the ground I was more scared then I ever remember being in life and I couldn't stand up I was shaking so badly.
A good time to quite, right? Wrong. After the initial shock wore off I was very happy and emensly proud of what I'd just done. Yes, I was scared to do it again, but I was confident that I could do it now.
Now I get scared in the airplane. A lot in fact. And those of you who read my thread about being scared in freefall know that I had that experience just last night - but I don't want to quit. What tells me this?
Well one, the fear does get less, even just a little each jump. Two, when I've talked to other skydivers they all talk about their fear and for some of them it lasted well into 40 or 60 jumps. Three, I feel confident that even scared I will do the right things -pull, land, flare, make good decisions.
If my fear never dismished over time one bit, or if my instructors weren't confident in my life-saving ability, or if I wasn't, then I guess it would be time to quit.
Oh, and I don't know how much I would go out of my way to encourage others who were unsure. The thought did cross my mind that if something happened to them and I had pressed them into it, it would just kill me. I think other people's abilities should be judged by instructors, and themselves, not me.
Gale
Isn't life the strangest thing you've ever seen?

[bbarnhouse 0]

It's time to quit when you start writing checks that your body can't cash.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but rather by the moments that take our breath away.

[canopycudler 0]

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Its one thing to tempt death, its another to bitch slap him...

I think that would be a kick ASS sign line... true .. so very true...
good skydives, good friends and good beer.. thats what its all about.
..

[Emmie 0]

I remember when I first started skydiving that I wasn't the best student. Actually I think that I was the worst student that my instructors have ever seen. However, I wasn't afraid, and I loved it, and I put 100% of myself into getting better. The instructors saw it and encouraged me to continue. I never got the bowling talk, and I got better. I guess the only time you suggest that someone stops skydiving is if they just can't seem to enjoy themselves. Fear is natural, I still get nervous at times, but being terrifyed on every jump kind of defearts the purpose of skydiving.

[nws01 0]

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I never got the bowling talk, and I got better.

You never got the bowling talk? Actually you all Emmie is living proof that if you keep going you will get better. You might have a few occurences during your first 20 jumps, but if you hang in there you will get better! Good job Emmie!
Blue Skies,
Nathan

[tigra 0]

Gale,
I think part of the whole joy and empowerment of skydiving is facing and conquering your fears. And fear is a very NORMAL part of skydiving; it keeps you tied to reality, makes you realize that you are doing something dangerous, reminds you to be careful. Some fear is healthy. And most of us have gone through what you have, to one extent or another. (I know I have)
But, there are people out there who start jumping for the wrong reasons, who are constantly terrifed, who aren't having any fun and are, in fact a danger to themselves and others.
Bottom line, if you love it, stick with it. It will get better. If it doesn't, find another obsession to eat up all your time and money!
There is no shame in ANYONE deciding this sport isn't for them and walking away. (better to walk than be carried, right??)
maura

[Jimbo 0]

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but coming down and seeing people running across the landing area to someone hurt (or worse) followed by an ambulance a minute or two later, and worrying it might be someone you know - I don't think you ever quite get used to that.

Amen.
-
Jim

[Scoby 0]

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I disagree. I've seen people who do not want to jump pushed into doing it by boyfriends, friends, kids etc. I used to do the same thing myself, and try to talk everyone I knew into jumping. I don't do that any more. I've seen enough people get killed to know that it's not something you should do lightly, just because some other guy wants you to.

My girlfriend decided to do a tandem because I was doing AFF. I'm to this day a bit shocked that she decided to and then actually did it. However, when she talked about perhaps doing AFF, I gently reminded her how bent out of shape she can get over little things. I could see her having a malfunction and just panicking instead of doing anything about it. I certainly wouldn't want that on my conscience. Some (most?) people just shouldn't skydive.
I do encourage some of my friends to try it, but I only suggest it to those I think are made for it.

[ScottishJohn 25]

If you keep worrying them sheep in Brackley the farmers gonna do more than cripple you
=================================
I can smell your noodles !
=================================

[hooked 0]

There have been some really great posts to this thread, but yours is the one I will remember...........
It couldn't have been said any better.........
J

[ScottishJohn 25]

> When is it time to quit ?
When you've no money left , the credit card companies are hounding you and you've nothing left to sell but your rig =================================
I can smell your noodles !
=================================

[gale 0]

"but coming down and seeing people running across the landing area to someone hurt (or worse) followed by an ambulance a minute or two later, and worrying it might be someone you know - I don't think you ever quite get used to that."
I have no doubt that you are correct. But are you saying that this, at some point, will (should) stop people from jumping?
Gale
Isn't life the strangest thing you've ever seen?

[Jimbo 0]

I didn't get that impression at all, but it is something to think about and I'll bet it's made more than a few people reconsider their involvement in this sport.

[skybytch 259]

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But are you saying that this, at some point, will (should) stop people from jumping?

It can and has. I think it depends a lot on how realistic a person is about the risks they are taking.
First person I knew personally who died jumping was the dzo of the little dz I learned at. After he went in at least 10 people who'd trained and regularly jumped there (ranging from 20 to a couple hundred jumps total at the time) quit jumping and sold their gear. It was made suddenly real to them that this shit can kill you; they couldn't handle that reality.
Personally, I think ambulances on the dz and funerals for my friends really suck and I'll never get used to seeing/attending them. That's not going to stop me from skydiving though. I've accepted the fact that me and/or my friends can get hurt or die doing this; I know the risks I'm taking and I'm comfortable with those risks, and I know that my friends are too.
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[GrumpySmurf 0]

It is the one fear that they can never teach you how to handle in a FJC. The more time you spend in the sport, the more you will bond with the people around you, the harder it becomes to let go of them when a mishap violently and suddenly takes them away. All the other fears subside, given time, training and experience - yet, this is the one fear that becomes increasingly stronger.
You can try to rationalize it with an Incident Report and examine what the person did wrong - but in the end they are gone, a living, breathing person, a friend that you shared laughs with, shared tears with and shared memories with, is gone and is never coming back.
If there was something that would make me quit this sport, it is that, the fear of losing yet another person I know - Five times in the last twelve months, five faces I am no longer going to see smiling and laughing in the plane on the way up, I asked, "Am I cut out for this, continually losing the people who are a second family to me."
The other fears fade in time, this one, I think, never goes away.

[jtval 0]

I think the best way to "PUSH" somebody to keep going is to ease their fears. as with any type of advice I give, I never "TELL" anyone what to do.(look at my "SERIOUS" posts)
in most cases they know what to do but just dont want to/or cant see the decision that needs to be made.
the best way to "tell' someone what to do is to lay all the choices out in front of them then let them make up their own mind.I have always done this.
since Jr high school ppl would ask me for advice and I would lay out the choice without being too PERSONALLY INVOLVED. I would still give the "this is what I would do" speech if they asked for it but that is after you played all the cards for them.
I have taken over 30 ppl to skydive and IN NO WAY did I "PUSH" any of them.
Its easy to "sell" something your are passionate about.(thats why I never got married... I keep selling the women I lovethe best advice comes from someone who is NOT baised.
even if you are biased or do WANT TO PUSH THEM to make a certain choice, DONT!
in my experience this will only come back to bite you in the ass. if anything goes wrong it will somehow be your fault. but if you EMPOWER someone to make their own decisions they will make the decision that is right FOR THEM and they will ALWAYS thank you for it!
so when someone asks if they should QUIT/continue first thingis first.
LISTEN TO THEM...COMPLETELY!
tell them the paths you see 1) if they quit. 2) if they stay.
piont out the rewards and the dissappointments of both choices and tell them why YOU chose your path only if they ask. apparantly they KNOW what path you took so to tell them your path is only re-iterating an obvious point...they came to you for advice b/c they think highly enough of you to "think" you will give some "sound advice." in any case the best advice is NOT your opinion it is the options that you see this person can take!
sorry this is soo long but if i dont stop here I will type for ever here. if you want "my" further advice PM/email me.
Have fun, Live free, SKYDIVE!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/jtval100

[spinmaster 0]

I haven't read all the threads on this yet so forgive the repeated viewpoints.
Skydiving isn't for everyone. Even for those who have one or two or more jumps under their belt. If at the end of the day someone isn't felling good about what they have done, they probably don't need to be in the air. Most of us, including me, forget that jumping out of the plane is easy; from there it only gets harder and more dangerous. For me personally, I had a scary first AFF but got through it ok and with my mind and sanity in check and had a feeling good about the hole experience. I can easily see how it can scare the life out of someone. After that first jump, if you walk away thinking you're crazy for having tried it, you're probably not the type to be doing this, however clean of a jump you had. Pushing people to go beyond their comfort level is not cool in this sport. It can kill you even if you don't make a mistake.
We, as a group, do forget that and let our personal thrill cloud our views. I've learned to balance the pushing people to try skydiving with what I hope is a health dose of caution and explaining the risks involved. I personally don't want to have someone I convinced to try jumping, who didn't feel comfortable with the risks, get hurt, or worse, and have that on my conscience.
Pushing to many people gets to many people hurt and that hurts us as a sport and as individuals.
Think of it this way, how many of you would want to readily try any of the number of equally dangerous sports out there after having been push, talked into, coerced, into trying?
My .02$
Dan
Blue Skies

[tigra 0]

Mark,
That is so true. Those of us @SDC, especially TF members, probably feel this more strongly than others because of the year we have had. The "first" fatality of someone you know, maybe have jumped with (not an incident report) is a very ugly initiation into this sport. It tells us just how close we have gotten to our skydiving family, and reminds us how easily we can lose them, or our own lives as well.
Skydiving has enriched my life and brought wonderful people into my "family", people I never would have known otherwise. Yet this sport that has brought these people to me might just as easily take them away. That is something that all of us who continue to skydive need to live with, and that's much harder than learning how to time your flare for landing or docking on a big way.
maura

[skycat 0]

Well it's not only low # jump jumpers that wonder if it is time to quit. Sometimes the reasons you jumped are not longer there, it has nothing to do with fear, but more the fact that what brought you to the sport is gone. When you wake up in the morning on weekends and dred going to the DZ, but you go anyway cause that is what you have done every weekend for the last 3 years. Then you do a few solos and go home wondering why you even bother anymore.
So today I finally make the decision, I'm quiting the sport, in the last year I've had friend after friend turn away from me because I was dating Derek the Spaceland Anti-christ, and in houston if you do anything to make anyone at spaceland not like you you are shunned. But it was ok, I had new things I was working on solos are good for that, head-down, sit-flying, canopy control, alots of stuff. Well a year later I've moved to a new town thinking things would be better, well they are worse, since I'm the new person no one wants to jump with me, I can't even get on a 2 way. *shrug* It has nothing to do with my flying abilities or any safety issues, it's all about clics and unfortunately I don't fit in.
So the reason I started jumping, the friendly people and the fun of the jumps are no longer there,so it's time to sell the gear and move on.

[Spy38W 0]

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So today I finally make the decision, I'm quiting the sport,

Oh my god, another side effect of hypoxia rears it's ugly head.
Honestly, I think you might be too quick to give up on this sport. I only know you through reading your posts on this forum and through chatting with you in the pub, but it seems to me that you have a deep-rooted love for the sport. Face it, there are some DZ's out there that are damned near incestuous with their cliques, whether they mean to be or not. Sometimes it just takes awhile to break through the barrier. I'm not in a good frame of mind to post much more about this now, but will get back to you soon.
Stay positive chica.
--
Come to the dark side

[freeflir29 0]

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I'm the new person no one wants to jump with me

Hmmm...thats weird. At Skydive Atlanta we make it a point to NOT let the new faces jump alone. Sometimes it's hard. Especially on the thinner days. The skill levels can be VERY far apart but we always put something together. In the past 20 or 30 jumps I bet at least 10 of those have been jumping with a "low timer" to help them out. Sometimes just cause they have never seen themselves on video before. I enjoy those jumps. Especially when the "student" has a break through. Thats what skydiving is about. People have been doing that for me since I started and now it's my turn to give back. I'll probably always remember the first day I walked into Skydive Atlanta. I was packing or something and Doug Glover walked right up to me and said "Hi....I haven't seen you here before. Wanna make a jump?" We did something like a 6 way RW and Dutchboy and I both went low and couldn't get back up. It was still fun. I jumped with a girl at the Boogie last weekend from CSS. She just wanted to get some video so she could see if she was really head down or not. Well...my video and my flying that day was really sucking. Didn't help that she weighed about 80Lbs. I should have been on my belly next to her but instead my dumb ass let her get away. You know what.....what little video I did get she was thrilled with it and so excited. That got me excited!! I had fun...even though I was a little torqued at myself but seeing the smile on her face made it all worth it.
I hope that you don't give it up. There is so much to do and share. I'll jump with you anytime!!! "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[jtval 0]

Kat-
I remember a simliar post you made a while back. and a similar reply...
if you honestly feel you HAVE to quit the sport, then none of us can say anything to bring your back. Please though, (im sure you already did) give them a chance. some times you go on this probation type of thing when You jump at a new dz, while ppl start to notice you and see if you are a safe jumper.( I usually like to minge with as many ppl as I can so I feel as comfortable as they do)
I noticed though, when I go to a new dz with alot of energy it is easier to meet ppl and get invited on jumps. there are the Cliques at every DZ but I dont even take notice. look for the others who are doing solos and jump with them.
of my 115 jumps, I've called 7 dz's home. the most jumps at 1 dz is 36. so I never really got into the politics of it.(I LIKE IT THAT WAY)
but at each of those dz's I had a BLAST!! I know it can get OLD fast when you got the "gods" all around you but in order to defeat that mindset you have to find your own "clique" even if it is only 3 new ppl that you jump with while the gods are being...gods! eventually they will come around and realize that they are being pretty stupid by shunning you!
the easy thing to say is Find a new DZ! but Im guessing you are not too close to many.
what ever you do...do it with condfidence AND DO NOT LET OTHERS MAKE YOUR DECISION FOR YOU! if you feel like you need to quit, do it b/c YOU WANT TO, not b/c people suck!
my last comment...You dont HAVE TO leave this DZ!! stay around and chute the shit with the ppl who attracted you to this "WAY OF LIFE!"

Have fun, Live free, SKYDIVE!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/jtval100

[jncoughlin 0]

I've currently completed AFFlevel 5 and am waiting for weather to clear to keep going.
From level 1 through 4 I was nervous, as opposed to scared. After each jump I was euphoric; then the next day I started contemplating what I'd done and I got scared. I started thinking that maybe skydiving wasn't for me. A few days would go by and I'd start wanting to try again.
On level 4 I went into a flat spin on release and couldn't seem to fix it. Took me 4,000 feet to get straight but I passed the level anyway (maybe because I got straight on my own?). I seriously thought about giving up.
A week went by and I decided to try level 5 and get some video. At least if I quit I wanted something to remember the experience by. That skydived kicked ass!!! I had control, good body position, accomplished everything I was supposed to. I drove home more excited then ever to keep going.
I'll be nervous before every skydive. I'll check and re-check my gear. I'll expect a mal on every deployment. I'll study every incident report. I'm not interested in hooking and swooping (I'm 50 years old). I won't jump if I'm tired, hungover (well, maybe a little), or in a bad mood. In short, I'll do everything I can to mitigate risk.
However, for me, the rewards far outweigh the risks in this sport. I wish I'd discovered it 30 years ago. Everyone has to decide for themselves. Encouragement is good but you have to want to get something in return for your risk. If you're not getting it, then move on to another sport and stay happy.
THE MORE YOU LIVE THE LESS YOU DIE.

[Pammi 0]

Girl, I truly hope that you think about this a little more before committing. If it's the people driving you away, remember, there are others. Hopefully Derek will be there soon then at least you have something familiar.
I imagine it's very overwhelming being at a new home, new job, new dz and away from everything you're used to. It's hard for me sometimes, you feel like you have to work so hard at proving yourself to everyone and things aren't comfortable for a while, and I actually have Merrick and the kids to help me through that.
I don't know if I would've/could've stuck with this sport on my own, besides the obvious financial reasons, without doing it with Merrick. I'm not a very 'forward' person...I tend to jump alone rather then go up to someone and ask them to jump with me. Merrick and I end up jumping with each other a lot, which isn't good for us as far as learning, but is good in a pinch if you don't hook up with someone else. So I envy those of you who can stride onto a new DZ, make friends and hook up for some jumps.
Is there another DZ anywhere close? That might help. I think JT is also right about the taking time thing. I've noticed in some places where jumpers will 'eyeball' someone new for a while until they find out what level they are at, if they are safe, etc. It's also helped to hook up with some people from on DZ.com too!! That has really helped when going to a new DZ to have a 'familiar' face to chat with while you're waiting for a load and make a few jumps with. Someone familiar to the DZ who'll show you around. Like Chuck out here...he's been fantastic at making us feel welcome and showing us around, introducing us to people we can jump with. But everyone here seemed pretty open and very nice about jumping with the newbies :) Strangers coming up just to chat. So another thing is it could be the area or DZ. I've been to one DZ that I won't mention that Merrick and I both really weren't comfortable at and it felt very odd. The people just weren't as friendly to newcomers and, I can't even pinpoint it, it just didn't feel 'right'. Without having had a couple of friends there to enjoy the company of, we prob'ly wouldn't have hung around too long. It could've been just us...but it doesn't matter. You just 'click' or you don't with something. No biggie, no fault...just find where you feel the 'click'
I hope you can figure this out and get back to what this should be for you...fun time, relax time and a time to not have to worry about being anything but yourself.
*hugs* girl
Pam
'Nuthin

[freeflir29 0]

Oh yeah....I just remembered something. I know someone that just moved to Denver. Not sure which DZ he is planning to go to. He is an older guy...tall and skinny with grey hair. His name is Kevin and he has about 3000 jumps I think. Does RW most of the time but was toying with sit flying a little lately. Really nice guy and has forgotten more about skydiving than I will probably ever know. Keep an eye out for him and you guys can be newbies in Denver together. "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"