So - what exactly IS a coach?

[Baksteen 84]

After reading these two threads:

poll: coach rating

and

Poll: Jump numbers for coach ratings

it seems that there is no consensus among Joe Skydiver what the responsibilities of a coach are.

I know that someone downthread will probably start linking the USPA SIM or somesuch document, but there is also the matter of cultural differences.
What IS a coach?

In the Netherlands a 'hulp instructeur' or 'deputy instructor' (HI) can be someone with 100 jumps, a B-licence and two years active in the sport.
A HI is among other things licenced to drop SL students, teach the FJC, sign off licence requirements, brief and debrief students etc.
Basically, they can assist the I with anything necessary for a skydiving day. A few important exceptions include licence exams, sanctions and a few more things like that.
Though the ultimate responsibility is officially always resting with the I, any HI that I know takes their rating very seriously - as they should.

To *observe* a student in freefall there is an additional requirement of 200 formation skydives (The regulations do not stipulate that an observer must have an HI or I-rating; apparently observers can also be experienced skydivers).

To teach a student any kind of RW there's special coaches that are appointed by the DZ. Only they (and AFF-I's, duh) may jump with students.
But only five of those coaching jumps are required for the A-licence, and only ten levels to be achieved before the student is allowed to funjump with any other person.
Funny thing is that while (to the best of my limited knowledge) DZs seem to adhere to that system, these RW-coaches are not mentioned anywhere in the rules and regulations.

I believe that in the Netherlands, the only 'coaches' are those people paid to improve an individual's skill in the discipline the coach is proficient at.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[BIGUN 1,062]

Short Course:

It is considered an Instructional rating because they can teach the general subjects (non-specific to the dive flow) of the FJC/refresher for each level of A-F and evaluate a student in the freefall portions of Categories G & H of the training curriculum. It is a stepping stone and "prep" for the AFF/I course.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[riggerrob 558]

The Canadian Sports Parachuting Association rates four levels of Coaches.
Coach One helps PFF graduates complete the solo skills (Spotting, front loops, packing,e tc.) needed to complete their A Certificate.
Coach Two teaches freefall formation skills.
C2 is also a pre-level to become a Progressive Freefall Instructor.
Coach Three and Coach Four advise competitive skydivers at the regional and World levels.

Skydive University has a similar gradation of coaches and USPA is gradually moving towards SDU's model for certifying coaches.

On a more casual level, many large DZs employ "load organizers" who coach sport jumpers the finer points of freefall formations, freeflying, canopy formations, etc.

[diablopilot 2]

Apprentice to instructor.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[moto89 0]

An AFF-I teaches students to save their lives. They teach them the fundamentals which are used on each and every skydive. They carry much more liability because of this, and that is precisely why the requirements are so much more stringent to become an instructor than a coach.

A coaches duty is to add to the base knowledge that the instructor has left the student with. The student knows how to skydive (fall out of the plane stable, pull a parachute, and land), and at this point they are expected to learn to skydive well (RW skills, tracking...).

The coach's work is primarily done on the ground. If a coach is doing his/her job they will spend as much time as it takes to brief the student to give them the best possible chance to succeed at their dive. Giving the student some gear, doing a gear check, then boarding the plane does not cut it.

In the air the coaches job is pretty simple. It is basically to be a human video camera. The task is to observe the student and to be able to see exactly what is causing any issues they may have so that you can relay this to them in your debrief. Other than that it is flying a steady base for them to practice docking, and maybe demonstrate fall rate techniques so that they may follow suit.

Sound about right? At least that's how I do it.

Less talking, more flying.

[NickDG 23]

Jumpmasters were (still should be) the apprentices to Instructors.

Coaches are apprentices to that guy who sweeps up around the DZ . . .

NickD

[DanG 1]

Quote

Jumpmasters were (still should be) the apprentices to Instructors.

Coaches are apprentices to that guy who sweeps up around the DZ . . .

So because they changed the name and slightly adjusted the responsibilities, the position is now crap.

Great attitude.

- Dan G

[skybytch 259]

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So because they changed the name and slightly adjusted the responsibilities, the position is now crap.

Great attitude.

He has a point. They changed more than the name and responsibilities.

Under the "old" system, you had to have the JM rating for at least a year before you could get the I - didn't matter how many jumps you had. Under the "new" system, you can get your coach rating and do a tandem or AFF cert course the next day (assuming that you have met the requirements for tandem or AFF).

Not much in the way of apprenticeship going on with the people who go that route, is there?

[DanG 1]

I think his point was lost on me when he said a Coach's proper place is right behind the janitor.

- Dan G

[tkhayes 132]

When I do an AFF jump, I tell the student what we are going to do, what is expected of them, I teach the skills required to do it. And in some remote way, I am responsible for their safety and even saving their life if I need to.

When I do a coach jump, I ask the student what they want to learn, and I teach them the skills to do it, then we go do it. I am not responsible for their safety (not completely true), and it does not matter that much if they do well (also not completely true)

In the case of coach jumps for a student trying to get their A license - if I do not sign SOMETHING off on their A license card, then I have completely wasted their time and money. (also true for an AFF jump I guess)

[DescensionX 0]

A coach is basically just like your experienced skydiving friends, except you give them money.

[mnskydiver688 0]

I am so glad I took getting the rating seriously...

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[dorbie 0]

It's a filter, to keep yahoos away from newly minted AFF grads until they're A licensed and have a sporting chance of surviving bad advice.

[pwln 0]

Someone that gave someone else extra money to get a few extra words on their USPA card. I don't think money used to be in the picture but it sure is now.

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

Quote

It's a filter, to keep yahoos away from newly minted AFF grads until they're A licensed and have a sporting chance of surviving bad advice.

This is a GREAT definition

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

It's a filter, to keep yahoos away from newly minted AFF grads until they're A licensed and have a sporting chance of surviving bad advice.

This is a GREAT definition

except much of the time it's just another yahoo with bad advice - and a rating

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Joellercoaster 6]

Maybe we could change the thread title to 'USPA coach', as that seems to be where the controversy is - and where the natural assumption of many dz.com readers is to place the scope of all conversation

Lots of other countries have (often multiple) coach ratings that work well and they're happy with them.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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It's a filter, to keep yahoos away from newly minted AFF grads until they're A licensed and have a sporting chance of surviving bad advice.

+1 Thank you!

I just got my coach rating and still am looking to become a better coach. I've been watching and trying to learn more. I take it very seriously and hope others do as well. If that means sweeping a few floors... so be it. If it makes me a better coach/instructor, hand me a broom.

Lifelong skydiving Student #1

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Baksteen 84]

Quote

Maybe we could change the thread title to 'USPA coach', as that seems to be where the controversy is - and where the natural assumption of many dz.com readers is to place the scope of all conversation

Lots of other countries have (often multiple) coach ratings that work well and they're happy with them.

That's exactly what I intended - move the scope away from USPA or whatever other organisation and get people to think: What IS a coach or, what should a coach be?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom