2shay 0 #26 April 11, 2007 You must pack them properly for them to work. I agree. If the person paking does not have an IQ high enough or is to lazy to do it right then that sounds like a personal problem.don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #27 April 11, 2007 Packed properly. Yes. These forums are about like fighting with your girlfriend via text message. You just can't explain shit to her without her throwing it back at ya and making you look like an ass. LOLOn a serious note this is to "all". Secondary risers are a good thing and yes of course if they are packed correctly. Of course this is my opinion. Have fun all. Peace, Joel don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #28 April 11, 2007 someone said that secondary riser covers are there in case your primary riser covers fail. Well it will maybe "hold" the risers a little better, but i think that's not why they are there. If your main riser cover will open, the scenario is pretty much the same if you have secondary riser covers or not. I think (not sure though, designers should answer that) that they are there so that there is less chance that you'll leave part of the riser exposed (not packed correctly under the main riser cover). Secondary riser covers "force" you to have the risers and toggles hidden from wind. Of course you have to pack correctly, otherwise it's even worse than without secondary riser covers. and another reason is design of the rig. Vector3 is a good example. if it hadn't have secondary risers covers, risers would be exposed a little even if packed neetly. So with secondary riser covers you can afford to have narower main riser covers, which alows for better/easier reserve deployment (or so i think) if your riser covers are still closed. But they are almost certanly not there for the case when your main riser covers fail."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #29 April 11, 2007 QuoteLook at the rig tour on the UPT site. http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/rigtour/rigtour.swf Sorry, I responded before I noticed it had already been posted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #30 April 11, 2007 >I also think it is ironic that Arizona Airspeed were all using vector 3's in >the flim "Crosswind" they are some of the best RW guys and gals ever and >they didn't seem to have a problem jumping them. Now, to be fair, most 4 way teams will jump anything that: 1) works and 2) is free. Remember that most 4-way teams don't pack their own rigs, and most rigs today work OK. If you want an endorsement about the quality of a rig from someone, I'd go with a rigger over a 4 way guy. Put it this way. If you put a Catapult secondary reserve PC on a 4-way team's rigs, they'd likely never know it, and would probably keep jumping it happily. That's not an "endorsement" of such a device. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CygnusX-1 42 #31 April 11, 2007 What??? Then Duracells aren't a better battery because company XYZ uses them in their medical devices? Say it's not so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #32 April 11, 2007 Quote What??? Then Duracells aren't a better battery because company XYZ uses them in their medical devices? Say it's not so. I'm sorry. I've lost somewhere. What to do Duracell with Secondary Riser Covers? Do you use Duracell in your Secondary Riser Covers ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #33 April 11, 2007 It was a reference to Duracell's TV commercials (in the US). It made sense... just go with it. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #34 April 11, 2007 it was makeithappen that needed the linkdon't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #35 April 11, 2007 the point I am trying to make is that Zig said, if you're freeflying go ahead and have em they probably do more good than harm. That being said if they are good enough for freeflying(which takes your rig way closer to the limits than RW) Then why would you not want them there anyway no matter what you are doing. Why up your chances EVER? >If you want an endorsement about the quality of a rig from someone, I'd go with a rigger over a 4 way guy. I am a rigger Bill. Does my opinion not count?don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #36 April 11, 2007 >I am a rigger Bill. Does my opinion not count? Of course your opinion counts! People reading here will get a chance to see what you have to say, as with everyone else. >Then why would you not want them there anyway no matter what you >are doing. Why up your chances EVER? Just about every piece of gear on a rig has an upside and a downside. Excellent riser covers? Sounds good! Unless one side doesn't release on opening, and that gives you a spinner, and you can't cut away because your reverse risers won't clear the riser covers. Skyhook? Sounds like a great idea! Until a rigger mis-rigs it and gives you a reserve PC in tow. Catapult? Sounds like a great idea! Unless you manage to trap the smaller PC with your elbow or something. Two sided RSL? Sounds like a great idea! Unless you have an out-of-sequence deployment, then cut away the main. Contoured main flaps? Sounds like a great idea! Until a line takes a half hitch around one. All the above are features that some people want on their rigs, some don't. That's the way it should be. There is no one "perfect" rig, and what is good for one person is not great for another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #37 April 11, 2007 QuoteExcellent riser covers? Sounds good! Unless one side doesn't release on opening, and that gives you a spinner, and you can't cut away because your reverse risers won't clear the riser covers. I don't think I'd call those excellent! But that did happen to me recently on my Vector3. Which is why they switched to magnetic riser covers of course, which aren't compatible with cell phone cameras. In my case, the rig had just come back from getting new riser covers that were slightly redesigned to prevent the stiffeners from cracking. Right side hung up. I was able (after spending at least 30 seconds trying to figure out what the heck was wrong and why my head was pinned down partially) to yank on my right rear riser and clear it. Canopy flew surprisingly well that way... I think it would have landed ok, but I never unstowed the brakes as it was. Anyway, never happened again. I think it was just too stiff being brand new. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #38 April 11, 2007 Like I said earlier! Were beating a dead horse now. I agree things can go wrong, BUT if you use these systems correctly the pros will outweigh the cons. I think that it is quite obvious to anyone that any system used wrong will more than likely malfunction. Absolutely NO system out there is perfect or foolproof or whatever you would like to call it. So I think we are pretty much in agreement on this.don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #39 April 12, 2007 ... with secondary riser covers you can afford to have narrower main riser covers ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly! Secondary riser covers were first introduced on the Vector 3 because it has such narrow (primary/external/whatever the heck you call them) main riser covers. Without secondary riser covers, the main steering toggles would be exposed on Vector 3s. When I asked Bill Booth why he did not install secondary riser covers on Sigmas, Bill replied "because the main riser covers are already deep enough." The amusing thing is that several other manufacturers copied - like lemmings - secondary riser covers without really understanding why. Hee! Hee! Jeff Johnson (at Mirage) is probably the only other manufacturer to understand the function of secondary riser covers. Oh! Wait a minute! Jeff was the designer that RWS hired to work the bugs out the Vector 14 and make it practical. Hee! Hee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #40 April 12, 2007 I hope Bill Booth lives forever! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #41 April 12, 2007 Quote Exactly! Secondary riser covers were first introduced on the Vector 3 because it has such narrow (primary/external/whatever the heck you call them) main riser covers. Without secondary riser covers, the main steering toggles would be exposed on Vector 3s....... The amusing thing is that several other manufacturers copied - like lemmings - secondary riser covers without really understanding why. Hee! Hee! Jeff Johnson (at Mirage) is probably the only other manufacturer to understand the function of secondary riser covers. Oh! Wait a minute! Jeff was the designer that RWS hired to work the bugs out the Vector 14 and make it practical. Hee! Hee! You have GOT to be kidding me Rob, you've been around long enough to have seen and packed Racer Elites, and probably some of the mid '80's Mirages that had similar riser covers. I haven't read through the whole thread, but it only takes about 1lb. of force to pull a riser clear of our secondary riser covers- not enough to cause any opening problems. Also, since the front risers are packed against the secondary covers, and the toggles packed farthest away, they are not likely to cause a toggle to come unstowed prematurely. I've never seen any evidence to show otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #42 April 14, 2007 Quote http://www.velocityrigs.com/products.php?product=infinity&sub=features&film=2&flmpos=2 These are the best damned rigs on the market. I went ahead and edited your quote to make it more accurate cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #43 April 14, 2007 QuoteThe Velocity version of the secondary riser cover also looked like it could hang or displace a toggle when it was packed correctly too. I am assuming that the flap gets tucked in under the risers and the risers are stowed with brakes inboard. Someone could put longer risers on the main and make it really easy for a toggle hangup. It can't. I suggest you look at one of the rigs.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #44 April 14, 2007 Quote Also, since the front risers are packed against the secondary covers, and the toggles packed farthest away, they are not likely to cause a toggle to come unstowed prematurely. I pack my risers the opposite way, and also have never had a problem.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #45 April 14, 2007 QuoteQuote Also, since the front risers are packed against the secondary covers, and the toggles packed farthest away, they are not likely to cause a toggle to come unstowed prematurely. I pack my risers the opposite way, and also have never had a problem. Does that mean you put a half-twist in your risers? That seems strange. It seems to me that the designs with secondary riser covers have much less of the reserve tray 'profile' covered than those designs that don't have secondary covers. It seems a good idea to not have so much of the reserve 'profile' covered in the scenario of a reserve activation with the main still in the container. The Infinity rocks!People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #46 April 14, 2007 QuoteDoes that mean you put a half-twist in your risers? That seems strange. No more than packing them toggles inward.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #47 April 14, 2007 QuoteQuoteDoes that mean you put a half-twist in your risers? That seems strange. No more than packing them toggles inward. I guess I was thinking that the risers following the contour from the shoulder to the side of the container get them started 'rotating' in the direction towards them being toggles inward, but of course it can be done otherwise.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #48 April 17, 2007 Sorry Kelly, We will have to agree to disagree on one point, while agreeing on another. But my 1985 Mirage does not have secondary riser covers. And as for those second-generation (early 1980s) Racer riser covers ... they differ significantly from modern secondary riser covers. Oh! And we agree on the notion that it is almost impossible for secondary riser covers to knock a toggle loose. Since you worked at the Relative Workshop - while they were de-bugging the Vector 3 pattern set - you probably know more about riser covers than the next 100 riggers. The point that we can agree on is: modern Infinities have some of the best - secondary riser covers on today's market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
